Template talk:PD-Australia

Type of material		Copyright has expired if ...
A	Photographs or other works published anonymously, under a pseudonym or the creator is unknown:	taken or published prior to January 1, 1955
B	Photographs (except A}:	taken prior to January 1, 1955
C	Artistic works (except A & B):	the creator died before January 1, 1955
D	Published editions1 (except A & B):	first published more than 25 years ago
E	Commonwealth or State government owned2 photographs:	first published more than 50 years ago

¹ means the typographical arrangement and layout of a published work. eg. newsprint.
²owned means where a government is the copyright owner as well as would have owned copyright but reached some other agreement with the creator.

Permission to upload (Reproduction rights)

Although Australian images produced before 1955 are copyright free, if the images are uploaded from the National Archives, they state : "If you use a digital image, the National Archives must be acknowledged as the source and the image must be identified by its item or image number." They do not charge for reproducing digital copies. (NAA copyright and use fact sheet)

I have sought permission from the National Library of Australia to upload Historical Photos of Australia made before 1955. Permission was granted with reference number NLA05/1532 as per request below. I have a signed hardcopy of the permission.--AYArktos 23:05, 6 November 2005 (UTC)

Request for Permission to Publish Material from the Pictures Collection of the National Library

1. I request permission to publish (i.e. reproduce, print, display, transmit, project etc for a group of people) the following items from the Pictures Collection : [include creator, title, accession or call number if known]: Historical photos of Australia made before 1955, in particular photographs from the Mildenhall collection, for example, nla.pic-an11030057-226 (Mildenhall, William James, d. 1968. Capitol Theatre, Manuka [picture] ) 2. Title of the publication(s) or website address in which the items will be published: http://wikipedia.org/ 3. I will include in the publication at least the following information for each item: creator name, title, identifying number and the words ‘National Library of Australia’.

4. I will place the information listed in (3) on the same page or screen as the image, or in the following place(s) in my publication: with the image, however, a thumbnail of the image may be displayed and the information will be available by clicking on the image which will display a larger size image and this information. 5. I understand and agree to the following conditions: (a) Compliance with the requirements of the Copyright Act is my responsibility and the Library is not liable if I fail to comply (b) The creator, title and other information are supplied by the Library in good faith; the Library is not liable for any incorrect information supplied (c ) If publishing electronically I will limit the resolution to a level unsuitable for publication-quality printing (d) I will adhere to the following special condition: I will not use images that are not in the public domain

Permission was granted with reference NLA05/1532--AYArktos 23:05, 6 November 2005 (UTC)

---

• Contributors should be aware that although AYArktos has agreed to be bound by these conditions, no other contributor is under obligation to conform to them. Public domain images may be used freely by anyone, so public domain images made available by the NLA may be uploaded to Commons / Wikipedia, and no permission or agreement with the NLA is necessary. In particular, contributors are encouraged to upload images at the best available resolution, in conformance with Commons:Image and Wikipedia:Image use policy. Snottygobble 23:56, 6 November 2005 (UTC)

AYArktos reminds me of this quote from Blackadder II - Captain Rum: "Opinion is divided on the subject - all the other captains say it is - i say it isn't!". PMA 00:48, 7 November 2005 (UTC)

Size of template

The template seems to be a bit large. Would it be better to say that Aussie public domain applies, and give a link to what qualifies as Australian public domain? Andjam 07:06, 16 November 2005 (UTC)

Category:Australian public domain photographs

Does using this template automatically put that image into this category? --pfctdayelise 13:26, 25 November 2005 (UTC)

ok, nvm. I just had a look at the code and obviously it does. pfctdayelise 13:34, 25 November 2005 (UTC)

It really shouldnt, since it is used for maps and other things --Astrokey44 09:01, 17 May 2007 (UTC)

Copyright status in the U.S.

The U.S. and Australia have had bilateral copyright relations since March 15, 1918.[1] U.S. works are since then subject to copyright in Australia under Australian law, and Australian works published after that date, bearing a copyright notice, and having been registered within a set time at the U.S. Copyright Office (30 days, extended to 60 days for one year after WWII in 1949), were subject to the U.S. copyright law in the U.S. See p. 150-151 of the Annual Report for the fiscal year 1917/1918 of the U.S. Copyright Office (p.32-33 in the PDF) and the Annual Report 1949/1950 for the post-war registration extension.[2] Works published without copyright notice, or not registered at the U.S. Copyright Office, or where the U.S. copyright had lapsed because it was not renewed, were subject to the Uruguay Round Agreements Act and thus had their U.S. copyrights restored if they were not in the public domain in Australia in 1996. Lupo 14:38, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

I dont think this is correct, see w:Copyright expiration in Australia: Works published outside the United States before 1978 that are in the public domain in their home country are in the public domain in the United States. [3] --Astrokey44 09:10, 19 July 2007 (UTC) On further reading it seems you are right, if it was copyrighted in home country on 1 Jan 1996 (ie photos post 1946 in australia), it will be public domain in the US only 95 years after publication date. I will add the warning from the wikipedia template talk page --Astrokey44 09:54, 19 July 2007 (UTC)

from Australian Copyright Council As a result of the Australia-US Free Trade Agreement (AUSFTA), the period of protection for most material has been extended. There has, however, been no revival of any copyright that expired before 1 January 2005under the old rules. Gnangarra 10:06, 21 July 2007 (UTC)

I have reverted the addition of the extra template. While I think you may be right on the details, this only applies to a very few articles. As such, the suggested template does not belong in this one - the very vast majority of the images tagged with this template are completely fine. Rebecca 05:29, 23 July 2007 (UTC)

I agree with you there, this only applies to a few images, but why should that mean that we use a template which suggests that some images would be PD in the US when in fact they aren't? That would be simply storing up problems for the future.

I have reverted the template back to the original as per the discussions here and at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:PD-Australia#Need_for_new_templates.3F I would suggest that it be left alone until legal advice is recieved, and then a more carefully worded modification to the template is made - the new wording implies that the image is likely to not be PD, when this is probably not going to be the case for almost all tagged images. --Nick Dowling 10:33, 27 July 2007 (UTC)

Amendment of date on PD-Australia

Could an Admin. please amend the date on this template to February 2008 - Source Australian Copyright Law, InfoSheet G023 User_talk:Kathleen.wright5 03:39, 22 August 2008 (UTC)

Done. Hesperian 07:22, 22 August 2008 (UTC)

Australian War Memorial - really public domain?

A lot of the images which are marked with this template are from the Australian War Memorial or AWM (http://www.awm.gov.au). Typically, Commons claims that AWM marks the image's copyright status as 'clear'. However sometimes the template text is followed by the statement:

"The AWM allows the use of images from its online database whose copyright has expired for non-commercial purposes only on the condition that the AWM's watermark is not removed. The Australian War Memorial (AVM), however, requires that the AWM watermark is not removed and that permission be sought for commercial use."

An example of this is Image:Isitt NEW ZEALAND 1945.jpg. Looking at the AWM website, it is not clear whether AWM claims copyright or not.

Another example is Image:5 OTU RAAF (P03594-015).jpg. This image claims on commons that AWM states that the photo has a copyright status of 'clear' on the Australian War Memorial collections database. However the AWM page for the image (http://cas.awm.gov.au/TST2/cst.acct_master?surl=493527678ZZZPDXDRKCUGZ17206&stype=4&simplesearch=&v_umo=&v_product_id=&screen_name=&screen_parms=&screen_type=RIGHT&bvers=4&bplatform=Microsoft%20Internet%20Explorer&bos=Win32) states that the Copyright Status of this image has yet to be assessed.

If it is a simple matter that any AWM image which dates from before 1 January 1955 is now in the public domain then the matter can be simplified. However, if this is not the case then I suspect that we are breaking copyright by hosting many AWM images. Can anyone shed any light on this? Greenshed (talk) 17:50, 30 November 2008 (UTC)

Photographs taken prior to 1 January 1955 are in the public domain as per the license template. Its more than just the AWM that do this on images many of the state libraries also make the same assertion but its simple making a claim of copyright they dont hold, we remove water marks on theses images as per Commons:Watermarks and given appropriate source information on the image page. Gnangarra 22:17, 30 November 2008 (UTC)

It's not quite as simple as that. Gnangarra is correct about Australian copyright law, but only Australian images (almost everything on AWM is Australian in copyright terms, but I seem to remember one or two exceptions) from before 1 January 1946 are clear of U.S. copyright. Physchim62 (talk) 14:25, 1 December 2008 (UTC)

The AWM's website states that copyright expires on pre-1 May 1969 photos in its collection 50 years from the date they were taken at [4] and makes no mention of any international complications and the Memorial has been uploading photos dating back to the early 1950s (including photos taken outside Australia) to Flickr as having "No known copyright restrictions" at: [5]. That disclaimer dates back to an old misunderstanding of the images' status when they were originally uploaded to Wikipedia and should be removed as it's since become clear that the images are PD. As for the photo, the image's status was marked as 'clear' when it was uploaded: a few months ago the AWM changed the status of almost all its images to 'to be assessed'. As such, these images are PD and if the memorial is uploading them to Flickr there should be no problems with hosting post 1946 images on non-Australian servers. Nick-D (talk) 08:07, 2 December 2008 (UTC)

The 1969 date means that they are considered Commonwealth Copyright (a version of Crown Copyright); prior to May 1, 1969 (when the 1968 Copyright Act went into effect) the term was 50 years from when the work was made, and it is only for works made after May 1, 1969 that the Commonwealth Copyright term for photographs and engravings was changed to 50 years from publication. I don't think there should really be many U.S. copyright complications either; it is a situation more akin to PD-author where the copyright owner is declaring their own works to be public domain. Carl Lindberg (talk) 15:20, 14 February 2010 (UTC)

Link needs update

{{Editprotected}} The second ext. link is 404, change to http://www.copyright.org.au/pdf/acc/infosheets_pdf/g023.pdf/view .feydey ^(talk) 16:47, 25 May 2009 (UTC)

Done, thanks. Hesperian 23:11, 25 May 2009 (UTC)

Video and Broadcasts

{{Editprotected}} I think there should be a mention of film, video, audio and broadcasts in this template as commons hosts this sort of material --RockerballAustralia (talk) 00:48, 6 October 2009 (UTC)

Language

This template currently says that the image was created in Australia. That is irrelevant, and very often false (for example, in the case of the many WW2 images tagged with this); what's important is that the image's country of origin be Australia. Could an administrator adjust the wording? And while we're at it, would it make sense (since images need to be in the public domain in the country of origin and the United States) to add a note about how images so-tagged are in the public domain in the US if they were created before January 1, 1946, such that they were in the public domain in the country of origin on the date of restoration? Steve Smith (talk) 07:34, 8 December 2009 (UTC)

{{Editprotected}} My suggestion would be to replace "This image was created in Australia" with "This image is of Australian origin". Steve Smith (talk) 04:18, 9 December 2009 (UTC)

 Done, wording adjusted as you suggested. I am unsure I understand your other request, so I would rather leave it.

Also, I enabled autotranslation on this template, which implies the text is now stored in subpages such as {{PD-Australia/en}}, which you can edit. Jean-Fred (talk) 00:22, 10 December 2009 (UTC)

Commonwealth (Government) copyright

The section "E" in the template is slightly incorrect; it says 50 years from being published, whereas it should say 50 years from being made or taken. The 1968 Copyright Act (which went into effect on May 1, 1969) changed the Commonwealth Copyright term for engravings and photographs to 50 years from publication, rather than 50 years from creation in §180(3). However, per §233, that only applies to photographs and engravings made on May 1, 1969 or later; for earlier photographs the earlier terms (50 years from creation) still apply, which would be the case for anything public domain today. The distinction will not matter until 2020, since that is the earliest that the "publication" part of the definition could even apply. Also, all other Commonwealth artistic works are still 50 years from creation; it may also be a good idea to mention that instead of just "photographs" (and engravings are not mentioned at all). Carl Lindberg (talk) 15:30, 14 February 2010 (UTC)

Dead Link (again)

The second external link gives a HTML 404 error, it needs to be updated again. -- Aeonx (talk) 01:25, 7 November 2010 (UTC)

It's still broken - does anyone know what the new link is? Nick-D (talk) 01:40, 31 May 2011 (UTC)

New address for dead link

{{Editprotected}} The ACC information sheet is now G023v16 (Feb 2012), and the link is now http://www.copyright.org.au/admin/cms-acc1/_images/16227869304f39aff399393.pdf

Can an administrator please now update it? Thanks, Bahnfrend (talk) 00:56, 31 March 2012 (UTC)

 Done (updated all of the languages with the new link/information) Logan _Talk ^{Contributions} 01:21, 1 April 2012 (UTC)

war art from the Korean War

What is the status on art produced by war artist employed by the government during the Korean War? My thought was the 50 year benchmark would apply, per section 180 for CR act, but I wanted to get a second opinion before I proceeded with uploads.--Labattblueboy (talk) 20:13, 6 May 2011 (UTC)

Dead Link (again)

{{Editprotected}} External link at top of the template (ACC Information Sheet G023v16 (Duration of copyright) (Feb 2012)) is broken again. Now at http://www.copyright.org.au/admin/cms-acc1/_images/16729511725265eae2b3ee1.pdf Document still appears to be at version 16 from Feb 2012 so only the URL needs to be updated. Thank you.— Preceding unsigned comment added by Cube00 (talk • contribs) 10:48, 22 October 2013‎ (UTC)

 Done −ebraminio^talk 07:15, 26 October 2013 (UTC)

Dead Link (once again)

{{edit request}} Please update URL and version information of the ACC "Duration of Copyright" Information Sheet link at top of the template. Now at http://www.copyright.org.au/acc_prod/AsiCommon/Controls/BSA/Downloader.aspx?iDocumentStorageKey=d2bde8e8-c0db-4242-893f-278135fe811c&iFileTypeCode=PDF&iFileName=Duration%20of%20Copyright This Information Sheet has been updated to version 17 from August 2014. --Very trivial (talk) 00:14, 8 June 2015 (UTC)

still needs doing... (via [6]) btw, their website is really horrible. --Jeremyb (talk) 17:19, 19 July 2015 (UTC)

 Done --Jarekt (talk) 16:28, 27 October 2015 (UTC)

Clarify

"A Photographs or other works published anonymously, under a pseudonym or the creator is unknown: taken or published prior to 1 January 1955

B Photographs (except A): taken prior to 1 January 1955

C Artistic works (except A & B): the creator died before 1 January 1955

D Published editions1 (except A & B): first published more than 25 years ago

E Commonwealth or State government owned2 photographs and engravings: taken or published more than 50 years ago and prior to 1 May 1969"

is not completely clear as on a quick reading (B) simply repeats (A). It also uses the word "taken" in (A) for "photographs and other works" -- "created" would be more accurate as you obviously do not "take" a painting, sculpture, or biography.

I propose revising it to read:

"A All photographs taken or published prior to 1 January 1955

B All works, except photographs, published anonymously, under a pseudonym or the creator is unknown created or published prior to 1 January 1955

C Artistic works (except A & B) where the creator died before 1 January 1955

D Published editions (except A & B) first published more than 25 years ago

E Commonwealth or State government owned photographs and engravings taken or published more than 50 years ago and prior to 1 May 1969"

.     Jim . . . . (Jameslwoodward) (talk to me) 11:25, 9 January 2016 (UTC)

"A" should just be all photographs taken before 1955. Publication has nothing to do with it (obviously a photo is taken before it is published). "B" should then probably just be "All works (except A) published anonymously...". Carl Lindberg (talk) 20:03, 9 January 2016 (UTC)

Update link in template

The link to "ACC Information Sheet G023v17 (Duration of copyright) (August 2014)" in the template no longer works but is now linked from this webpage so can someone update it. Thanks Ww2censor (talk) 10:17, 17 April 2016 (UTC)

Dead link for ACC info sheet

{{Edit request}} The current link for the ACC information sheet does not work. Please change the template to use the download URL https://www.copyright.org.au/acc_prod/AsiCommon/Controls/BSA/Downloader.aspx?iDocumentStorageKey=7384f456-8e8a-4c69-97ca-206bb46df5da&iFileTypeCode=PDF&iFileName=Duration%20of%20Copyright instead. This URL should work (at least for now) and the use of HTTPS should provide increased privacy and security for users. Thanks. --Gazebo (talk) 08:11, 28 July 2016 (UTC)

 Done --Jarekt (talk) 16:58, 28 July 2016 (UTC)

Update

{{Edit request}} Some changes required to the template:

1. "Commonwealth or State" should be "Commonwealth, State or Territory"
2. The Australian government asserts that copyright expiration is worldwide. This is the same as an earlier declaration by the UK government. See OTRS Ticket#2017062010010417. A note to this effect should replace the "You must also include a United States public domain tag to indicate why this work is in the public domain in the United States."
3. The "and prior to 1 May 1969" has been removed by new legislation (Copyright Amendment (Disability Access and Other Measures) Act 2017) which is expected to take effect on 1 January 2018. A new version of the ACC Information sheet will probably appear at this time.

Hawkeye7 (talk) 22:25, 26 June 2017 (UTC)

Very cool, thanks for the notice. Some comments -- The worldwide-expiry only would apply to category E, government works. The term changes (sounds like infinite-term-unpublished works are going away) go into effect on January 1, 2019 -- unsure if that also applies to the capping of government works at 50 years from creation as well, which looks to be set to change. Carl Lindberg (talk) 23:05, 26 June 2017 (UTC)

Yes, the infinite term goes away. The capping of government at 50 years from creation (for unpublished works) doesn't really change anything. Government works already have a term of 50 years from creation. That would have changed for works created after 1 May 1969, but now it will not. As the affected images do not fall into the public domain until 2019, the 1 May 1969 clause will never take effect. The worldwide expiry applies to all images, not just government ones, but due to the extension of the term of non-government works to 70 years, they won't be affected by this until 2025. Hawkeye7 (talk) 07:12, 4 July 2017 (UTC)

The worldwide expiry is just for government works (i.e. the ones where they own the copyright, and can give it up). Owners of copyrights get whatever rights around the world that each country gives them -- which may be longer than Australia's, depending on that country's law and whatever treaties they have signed. Each copyright owner would have to voluntarily give that up, which it sounds like the government (following the UK's lead for their similar Crown Copyright) is doing for theirs. (Enforcement of government copyright in other countries is a weird subject to begin with -- no precedent, I don't think.) But they can not control that for private copyrights. Carl Lindberg (talk) 12:09, 4 July 2017 (UTC)

Yes, the OTRS is a statement from the government following the UK's lead on Crown Copyright. The point is that Crown Copyright images from 1946 to 1966 are in the public domain. Hawkeye7 (talk) 21:07, 4 July 2017 (UTC)

Yep. Sections A through D are about private copyrights though, so the URAA statement still applies there. However, the OTRS confirmation may make it worth it to have a separate PD-AustraliaGov template, which can refer to it explicitly. Carl Lindberg (talk) 01:10, 5 July 2017 (UTC)

This new template has been created. Hawkeye7 (talk) 20:45, 27 September 2017 (UTC)

@Clindberg and Hawkeye7: To point 2, how should the replacing note to this effect be concrete look like? (I'm not very firm in copyright law phrases.) Should we link http://www.aph.gov.au/Parliamentary_Business/Bills_Legislation/Bills_Search_Results/Result?bId=r5832 ? To point 3, should we wait (the link needs registration)? -- User: Perhelion 18:52, 27 September 2017 (UTC)

The law has already been passed, and was signed into law on 22 June 2017. It just takes effect on 1 January 2018. So just delete "and prior to 1 May 1969". Point 2, since we now have {{PD-AustraliaGov}}, is no longer necessary. Adding the link to the new law is fine. Hawkeye7 (talk) 20:45, 27 September 2017 (UTC)

 Done Awesome! Thank you! -- User: Perhelion 19:11, 17 October 2017 (UTC)

Dead link again 2017

{{Edit protected}}

https://www.copyright.org.au/acc_prod/ACC/Information_Sheets/An_Introduction_to_Copyright_in_Australia.aspx

The site now appears to offer the information sheet not as a normal PDF file on the server, but through a special downloader. The browser does not even know what the size of the resulting file is, using this special downloader.

So the above link is much more general, version-independent and better to link to, as it would be a fair assumption that for future version changes it will be more stable than trying to link directly to the file downloader address.

seb26 (talk) 22:17, 13 December 2017 (UTC)

 Done Thank you! -- User: Perhelion 00:17, 20 December 2017 (UTC)

Please change "public domain" to "public domain in Australia"

{{Edit request}} In Template:PD-Australia/en, please change '''[[w:public domain|public domain]]''' to '''[[w:public domain|public domain]]''' in Australia instead. From what it seems, a work of Australian origin may be out of copyright in Australia but at the same time the work may be copyrighted in one or more countries outside of Australia. Thanks. --Gazebo (talk) 07:12, 10 May 2018 (UTC)

 Not done That makes no sense. That would made the whole license tag obsolete, because Commons is not in Australia. -- User: Perhelion 21:27, 21 July 2018 (UTC)

@Gazebo and Perhelion: It makes perfect sense to me. We are only talking about the copyright status in Australia as the "source country". It certainly doesn't imply that the file is public domain anywhere else (except for countries that follow the en:Rule of the shorter term). Commons generally cares only about the source country and the USA. It also works the other way around: photographs taken before 1955 elsewhere in the world are public domain in Australia. --ghouston (talk) 10:53, 7 August 2021 (UTC)

Clarification request

@Jameslwoodward and Clindberg: Hello, can you help me to clarify something please? I just read the pdf available here (and that is quoted as to be a source for this template); in the section "How long does copyright last?", I clearly understand that only the "unpublished artworks" and the " artwork published anonymously or under a pseudonym" are in PD if they have been created (for the first case) or published (for the second case) 50 years before the 1 January 2005, therefore prior to January 1, 1955.

In our template, section B, I read "Copyright has expired if ...Photographs... taken prior to January 1, 1955", does that mean that all photographs taken prior to January 1, 1955 are in PD? shouldn't it be "unpublished photographs", instead?

If the answer is yes, then I think that we should add the word "unpublished" at the section B.

If the answer is no, I guess that those photos taken by Edward Alfred Briggs (Q43605996) are in public domain in Australia because they have been created in (or before) 1916, having been published in 1916?

Christian Ferrer ^(talk) 18:29, 9 March 2019 (UTC)

No. Before 1 May 1969, the Australian term of photographs was 50 years from creation. In 1969, that changed to 50 years from publication (following the UK example, which did the same transition in 1957). However, like the UK's transition, photos created before May 1969 continued to have their old term based on date of creation. In 2005, that term was extended to 70pma, and since all post-1969 photos were still under copyright in 2005, all of them got that term. Photos taken in 1955, 1956, etc. also got extended to 70pma in 2005. But photos taken in 1954 expired in 2005, and were not restored by the 70pma change in law that year (which only extended existing copyrights). More information is at this copyright duration document. That says: All photographs taken before 1955, whether published or not, are in the public domain. Really, I'm not sure that photographs need to be mentioned in section A (or we could switch sections A and B and remove the mentions of photos in the new section B). For URAA purposes of course, photos needed to be created before 1946 to also be PD in the U.S. Carl Lindberg (talk) 19:07, 9 March 2019 (UTC)

Oh, and there are some new complications -- the infinite term for unpublished works is now gone (as of January 1, 2019), but there is additional protection for works published after the author's death but before 2019 -- it gets 70 years from publication. If unpublished as of 2019, then it's a straight 70pma even if unpublished. This is somewhat similar to the U.S. situation for works created before 1978 but published between 1978 and 2003; for Australia 2019 is the equivalent of the U.S. 2003 when it comes to unpublished works. The text from the document:

Examples of duration under the new rules:

• If an author died in 1930, but their work is first published in 2018, that work will be protected by copyright until 2088. Similarly, if an author died in 2014, but their work is first published in 2018, copyright lasts until 2088.
• If an author died in 1930, and their work remained unpublished by 1 January 2019, then from 1 January 2019 onwards, that author’s copyright is deemed to have expired in 2000, regardless of when the work is first published.
• If an author died in 2014, and their work remains unpublished by 1 January 2019, then copyright expires in 2084, regardless of the year in which the work is first published.

The amendments also provide that where the creator of the copyright material cannot be identified, the standard term of protection will be ‘date made plus 70 years’. However, if the material is made public within 50 years of its making, copyright lasts from the date the material was first made public, plus 70 years. For example:

• if the author cannot be identified, but the work is dated 1980, then copyright will last for 70 years from that date (ie., until 2050); however
• if the author cannot be identified, the work is dated 1980, but the work is first made public in 2020, then copyright will last for 70 years from the date of being made public (ie., until 2090).

I'm not exactly sure of the best way to work that in. Carl Lindberg (talk) 19:07, 9 March 2019 (UTC)

Ok thanks you for the answer Carl, and for the additional infos! I will upload the photos with {{PD-1996}} {{PD-Australia}}, a signifiant part of the photos in this book depicts species of which we do not have illustrations here. Christian Ferrer ^(talk) 19:28, 9 March 2019 (UTC)

Note also that the law does not single out photographs. A photograph is an "artistic work" and is included with "literary, artistic, dramatic, or musical works" .     Jim . . . (Jameslwoodward) (talk to me) 21:39, 9 March 2019 (UTC)

Before 2005, the law did single out photographs. See for example Section 212 in their law as of 1998. Carl Lindberg (talk) 21:53, 9 March 2019 (UTC)

One more thing. When the copyright term was increased in 2005, that of crown copyright photographs (those owned by the Commonwealth, State or Territory governments) was not, and remained at 50 years from creation. (An amendment in the 1969 law to change the copyright date from creation to publication was superseded in 2019, and never came into effect.) And the Commonwealth has asserted, like its British counterpart, that crown copyright expiration is world-wide. So all crown copyright photographs up to those created in 1968 are currently PD. For PD crown copyright photographs created from 1947 to 1968, I recommend the use of {{PD-AustraliaGov}} instead. Hawkeye7 (talk) 01:44, 11 March 2019 (UTC)

Edit request - addition of warning for US copyright template

{{Edit request}} As noted earlier in this talk page, this template does not currently address US copyright. As standard Commons policy, images must be freely licensed in both the country of origin and the US for them to remain on this site. As the current version of the template fails to mention US copyright, we will inevitably have some users uploading Australian PD images in good faith that have a separate copyright in the US. The applicable guidance for this is Commons:Copyright rules by territory/Australia and Commons:URAA-restored copyrights. In the majority of cases, any Australian works created on or before 31 December 1945 will have had their copyright expire after 50 years and would have been in the public domain on the URAA date of 1 January 1996 (though there may be exceptions). Conversely, in the majority of cases, any Australian works created on or after 1 January 1946 will have been in copyright in Australia on the URAA date of 1 January 1996, which would have caused their US copyright status to be set as publication +95 years (though there are exceptions). Two of the possible templates I could see accompanying this template are {{PD-1996}} and {{PD-URAA-Simul}}.
I would like for the following text to be inserted into Template:PD-Australia/en as shown in this test edit from my sandbox.[7]

----
[[File:Dialog-warning.svg|link=|25px]] <small>{{PD-old-warning-text}}</small>

I'll be happy to discuss if editors feel that this needs further debate prior to insertion. From Hill To Shore (talk) 13:51, 28 November 2021 (UTC)

 Done in Special:Diff/614049741. You wanted to add the above to Template:PD-Australia/en, but then only the English version would reflect this change, so I added that to the template layout page itself (Template:PD-Australia/layout). --TKsdik8900 (talk) 05:48, 15 December 2021 (UTC)

Edit request - dead link, and hide the {{PD-old-warning-text}} warning if included through {{PD-two}}

• {{Editrequest}}

The link to the Australian Copyright Council's fact sheet is dead again - based on earlier discussions here, this happens every couple years. https://www.copyright.org.au/browse/book/ACC-Duration-of-Copyright-INFO023 is the link to the new page on copyright.org.au, and https://s3-ap-southeast-2.amazonaws.com/dimoacc/factsheets/INFO023.pdf is the link to the fact sheet itself.

It would also be nice if the "You must also include a United States public domain tag to indicate why this work is in the public domain in the United States." warning could be hidden if this tag was transcluded through the {{PD-two}} tag. PD-two uses the "used-with-US=1" parameter for this situation. Alex Cohn (talk) 23:18, 2 January 2022 (UTC)

@Alex Cohn:  Done NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh 21:29, 5 January 2022 (UTC)

New translation: Tok Pisin

Please add my Tok Pisin translation to the list of translations. You can find it here; Template:PD-Australia/tpi. Thanks MINECRAFT AUSTRALIA123 (talk) 00:21, 1 March 2022 (UTC)

 Done. Thanks for translating! --Achim55 (talk) 08:36, 1 March 2022 (UTC)

Edit request: update link date in parameter 2

{{Edit request}} https://www.copyright.org.au/browse/book/ACC-Duration-of-Copyright-INFO023 was last updated 31 December 2018. —CalendulaAsteraceae (talk • contribs) 01:15, 10 October 2022 (UTC)

@CalendulaAsteraceae: Good idea! But where do you see that date? It looks like version 19 was published 1 January 2019. — Sam Wilson ( Talk • Contribs ) … 10:25, 11 October 2022 (UTC)

@Samwilson Thank you for checking that! The description of the fact sheet says

Publish: 31 Dec 2018
Author: ACC
ISBN: INFO023

but this might be timezone issues, considering the PDF itself says January 2019. The template probably should say 2019-01-01. —CalendulaAsteraceae (talk • contribs) 23:09, 11 October 2022 (UTC)

That's pretty funny for a document dealing with copyright duration, that it can't even get its own date right! For me it says:

Publish: 01 Jan 2019
Author: ACC
ISBN: INFO023

So I think you're right, it's a timezone issue. :-) — Sam Wilson ( Talk • Contribs ) … 00:17, 12 October 2022 (UTC)

@CalendulaAsteraceae and Samwilson: Are there any edits that should be made here? —‍Mdaniels5757 (talk • contribs) 15:26, 24 October 2022 (UTC)

@Mdaniels5757: Yep, the date and version should be updated to:

|2=2019-01
|3=G023v19

Thanks!— Sam Wilson ( Talk • Contribs ) … 15:31, 24 October 2022 (UTC)

OK,  Done! —‍Mdaniels5757 (talk • contribs) 16:53, 24 October 2022 (UTC)

Not only for images

{{Edit request}} The template currently says This image is of Australian origin…, but it can be used on files other than images can't it? Should it say "This work is of Australian origin…"? The info sheet says that copyright applies to any work once it is "“fixed” in material form (eg, written down, drawn, photographed, recorded on audio or video tape, or saved to computer hard drive)". — Sam Wilson ( Talk • Contribs ) … 10:20, 11 October 2022 (UTC)

 Done Jonesey95 (talk) 16:16, 26 October 2022 (UTC)

Ideas for upgrading the PD-Australia family of templates

Go to 15 May 2023 versions and summary

Hello to everyone who grapples with Australian copyright.  :-)

An in-depth review of the PD-Australia templates is well overdue. The main PD-Australia template is complex and contains superseded information, and both it and the PD-AustraliaGov template contain elements that should be improved.

After looking afresh at the labyrinth in the past few weeks, I've developed drafts for three upgraded templates:

• a new one solely for government-made and non-government photographs
• a simple upgrade to the PD-AustraliaGov template following the same structure
• an upgrade to the complex PD-Australia template.

The project has involved bringing my knowledge of the Copyright Act up to date, re-examining in depth the guidance produced by the Australian Government and Australian Copyright Council, and clarifying some aspects with a senior manager of the administering government department. I have closely examined existing templates and relevant discussions in their Talk pages.

I'll present the three drafts for discussion in sequence as above – one at a time to keep the number of points for discussion within reason. So I'll focus for the moment only on a template for photographs.

Why a new template for photographs?

Mainly because it will greatly simplify the most frequent type of upload: photographs in which copyright had been owned by a government or by non-government entities. At the moment, anyone wanting to upload them faces having to read all the detail in the catch-all PD-Australia template to discover the relevant criteria (A, B and E). It ought to be more user-friendly for photo uploads.

I strongly recommend a new template – suggested name PD-AustraliaPhoto – to enable this most common type of upload to be done as simply as possible.

Developing the upgraded templates

Whether or not a separate template for photos is agreed, I'll modify the draft upgrade to the PD-AustraliaGov template – already tentatively completed – to reflect the conclusions of our discussion. When that template in turn has been decided I'll do likewise for the PD-Australia template.

Some principles have come out of my research.

Uniformity where possible

A number of significant differences exist between parts of the Commons and Wikipedia templates. My thought is that they ought to be virtually identical except for handling the US free-use difference (are there others? and should Commons perhaps not mention non-media content in its template?). I have advertised this Commons discussion in Wikipedia to maximise the number of contributors.

Making the most often used template the simplest

As you can see below, a template for Australian photos can be straightforward. It can deal with government and non-government images alike, despite the different criteria, avoiding a problem that it's not always clear whether the former copyright owner was a government or non-government entity.

The template would also remove one element of detail from the PD-Australia template.

First-order sources

I've changed the sources in the template to Australian Government guidance, now much better than it was, and the Copyright Act. The government-originated sources are superior (in status) to the second-order material of the Australian Copyright Council. That's not to deny that some of the Council's information is very helpful, only that its authority is exceeded by that of the Australian Government.

Proposed PD-AustraliaPhoto template

Copyright in this photograph has expired in Australia for either of the following reasons specified in Australian copyright legislation: 1. Copyright was owned by a government of the Commonwealth of Australia or an Australian state or territory and 50 years have elapsed since the end of the year in which the photograph was made or first published. (In 2024, therefore, photographs made or first published by any of these governments on or before 31 December 1972 are in the public domain.) Or: 2. Copyright in the photograph was owned by an entity that was not an Australian government and the photograph was made before 1 January 1955.

Australia

Rationale for wording of the PD-AustraliaPhoto template 1. The wording of the Act and Australian Government guidance is closely followed throughout, except when necessary to avoid confusion through lack of context. For example, I have expressed "Life of author + 50 years" (in the guidance) as "... 50 years have elapsed since the end of the year in which the photograph was made or first published". 2. The link behind the words "... specified in Australian copyright legislation" is to the Australian Government's copyright guidance, which (in the notes on pp. 5–6) gives the sections of the Act. 3. The PD-AustraliaGov template in Commons declares that an image is in the public domain "... because it was created or published prior to 1973 ...". Leaving the arithmetic aside, that is only a consequence of the policy; the actual policy rests on whether the year in which the work was made or first published, plus 50 years, have passed. I have put that reason first, but have still included the date since it's helpful to uploaders. 4. The Australian flag, which is displayed in the PD–AustraliaGov template in Wikipedia but not in Commons, replaces the Commonwealth coat of arms, because the policy applies to state and territory governments as well. 5. "Copyright was owned ..." replaces the present tense (because copyright is no longer owned after a work is in the public domain).

The core text aside, I suggest adding three notes in the interests of user friendliness.

• The first one points less experienced uploaders to the other two templates that might apply to them, saving an uncertain search for alternatives with names unknown.
• The second is a standard US public domain warning (this would be worded differently in the Wikipedia version).
• The third reduces the likelihood of incorrect use of the template for self-published work (this came up in another template's Talk page).

To upload a non-photographic work made or first published by a Commonwealth, state or territory government in which copyright has expired, please use the PD-AustraliaGov template. If an individual or non-government entity previously owned copyright in a non-photographic work, the PD-Australia template should be used. This template must not be used to dedicate an uploader's own work to the public domain; CC0 should be used instead. To be hosted on Wikimedia Commons, a work must be out of copyright in both the source country and the United States. As a non-US work, this file must have an additional tag showing why it is in the public domain in the United States.

Finally: one potentially confusing factor is that nowhere in the Licensing section is the name of the licence mentioned. A heading is useful.

Here is the template incorporating all of the above:

PD-AustraliaPhoto Copyright in this photograph has expired in Australia for either of the following reasons specified in Australian copyright legislation: 1. Copyright was owned by a government of the Commonwealth of Australia or an Australian state or territory and 50 years have elapsed since the end of the year in which the photograph was made or first published. (In 2024, therefore, photographs made or first published by any of these governments on or before 31 December 1972 are in the public domain.) Or: 2. Copyright in the photograph was owned by an entity that was not an Australian government and the photograph was made before 1 January 1955. To upload a non-photographic work made or first published by a Commonwealth, state or territory government in which copyright has expired, please use the PD-AustraliaGov template. If an individual or non-government entity previously owned copyright in a non-photographic work, the PD-Australia template should be used. This template must not be used to dedicate an uploader's own work to the public domain; CC0 should be used instead. To be hosted on Wikimedia Commons, a work must be out of copyright in both the source country and the United States. As a non-US work, this file must have an additional tag showing why it is in the public domain in the United States.

Australia

I'm looking forward to your comments, not least on the things I won't have thought of. Don't hesitate to ask why I have chosen particular content/words if you can't infer why.  :-)

Cheers, Simon – SCHolar44 🇦🇺 💬  at 05:08, 5 May 2023 (UTC)

The thing is that the US forced us to extend copyright from 50 to 70 years. Some of us fought it, and it occurred only for non-government images. Copyright is a federal government responsibility in Australia under section 51(xviii) of the constitution.

The template is wrong. It should say "on or before 31 December 1972". That is 50 years ago. (They fall into the PD on 1 January each year) Furthermore, it applies not just to images made by Australian governments, but also those where the crown has acquired the copyright. The Australian government has asserted that copyrights expire world wide. I obtained an OTRS to this effect. So we do not require an additional tag for the United States in this instance.

The clock starts ticking on the other again in 2026. On 1 January 2027, all non-crown copyright images from 1956 will fall into the PD in Australia, and then they will do so each year from then on. So the template should say this. Again, the Australian government has asserted that images fall into the PD worldwide.

If the copyright owner is Australian, then it has expired in the US too, but otherwise an additional US copyright tag may be required. For example, a US government image taken in Australia. In Australia it will be PD when the copyright term expires; in the US because it is a US government image. It may not be PD elsewhere but we only require it in the US and the country of origin.

I strongly recommend that we keep the existing PD-Australia Gov for government images.

Hawkeye7 (talk) 06:37, 5 May 2023 (UTC)

@SCHolar44 and Hawkeye7: If it's the fact that any non-gov Australian-created photo has its copyright expire in the US if it has expired in AU, then it'd be great if the template could spell this out. When showing people how to use {{PD-Australia}} I'm forever having to dig further into this, and it's confusing. — Sam Wilson ( Talk • Contribs ) … 00:56, 6 May 2023 (UTC)

It is not true -- the government can only specify the expiration on copyrights they own. Non-gov photos before 1946 are OK, after that generally not, due to the URAA. Carl Lindberg (talk) 01:04, 6 May 2023 (UTC)

@Clindberg: Hmm okay. Maybe it should detail that a bit more? Or is it all a bit complicated? Maybe just a link to the probable US PD templates that would apply. I do sort of like the idea of a new photo-only PD template, because it can avoid having to mention all the info about non-photographic works and so perhaps be more detailed. — Sam Wilson ( Talk • Contribs ) … 01:18, 6 May 2023 (UTC)

It is true. The government specifies the copyright law for all images whether they own them or not. This is true in Australia, and in the United States. The Australian government sets the terms for copyright expiration, and Australian government asserts that copyrights expire after 70 years. World wide. In a small number of cases, the copyright has been sold to an entity in the United States. In that case, the copyright would expire but not in the US. But that is a small number of cases. Where an Australian non-gov owns the copyright, it will be in the PD world-wide once the copyright has expired after 70 years. Hawkeye7 (talk) 04:06, 6 May 2023 (UTC)

The government makes the rules inside Australia, but in other countries, they can only control the copyrights they own. The URAA restored copyrights if they were copyrighted in Australia in 1996. The government disclaimed any additional copyright that may have granted, which is great, but private citizens' copyright would be respected. Carl Lindberg (talk) 13:21, 6 May 2023 (UTC)

I'm not sure I like combining the gov and non-gov photos. The U.S. URAA law impacts those; government photos created before 1973 (current year - 50) are all OK to upload (the government has declared them expired worldwide so we don't need to care about the URAA for those). However, for non-government, only photos created before 1946 are OK to upload, since the U.S. copyright would have been restored by the URAA (other than particular edge cases). The lack of need to deal with the URAA on the AustraliaGov tag seems that it's easier to use that. Carl Lindberg (talk) 18:22, 5 May 2023 (UTC)

I do think the templates need updating some. The "or first published" when it comes to Crown Copyright is no longer a reference to the term (and never was for photos); simply "made before XXX" is enough. Crown Copyright attached to works first published by the government, even if made by someone else, so the "first published" is more of why the work was owned by the government in the first place. Obviously a photo must be made before it can be published. PD-AustraliaGov is now quite simple; PD-Australia is a bit more complicated. Photos changed to 70pma in 2005, so only ones whose authors also died in 1955 will expire in 2026. The government assertion of worldwide expiry is only for Crown Copyright works, not private copyrights, so the URAA can come into play for any of the non-government works. You probably want to use a template like old versions of {{Not-PD-US-expired-min-year}} to determine a year, since for many terms it will be the later of 1955 or (current year - 70), and you can use that calculation. I'll be interested to see how you work in the term works published posthumously but before 2019, as rare as those were. Carl Lindberg (talk) 21:26, 5 May 2023 (UTC)

@SCHolar44: Regarding "nowhere in the Licensing section is the name of the licence mentioned. A heading is useful." I'm not sure I agree as it is confusing for people who are not familiar with Commons (who mightn't even know what a template is or why it's named in the camel-cased way). It's also not the "name of the licence". Better to have an actual descriptive header, e.g. "Australian Public Domain photograph" or something, with the template named and linked more clearly lower down. — Sam Wilson ( Talk • Contribs ) … 01:03, 6 May 2023 (UTC)

We changed the rules about unpublished works, which formerly never entered the PD due to a loophole. But we simplified the rules for images. Creation date is all that matters now. Hawkeye7 (talk) 04:06, 6 May 2023 (UTC)

Before 1955, yes, but post 1955 photos are 70pma, are they not? Per this chart, photos taken before 1955 are PD (in Australia), ones taken 1955 and later are 70pma (based on the author's lifetime). But yes, publication date does not matter for photos, as the publication date loophole never became effective for them. Carl Lindberg (talk) 13:24, 6 May 2023 (UTC)

Thank you for your comments, Hawkeye7, not least for pointing out my error with the dates – the consequence of a last-minute paste. I'm aware of your longstanding contributions to the copyright story and appreciate your views. Re the "US forced us ... Some of us fought it ...", that doesn't seem to include the trade negotiators; I wonder whether they realised the immensity of the other party tying down intellectual property by another 40% – crucially for writers just beyond an adult lifetime – or whether they were just spineless.

You said, "The Australian government has asserted that copyrights expire worldwide. I obtained an OTRS to this effect." I included that note in my draft upgrade to the PD-Australia template but forgot to include it in this draft. Have now done so.

"... [The proposed PD-Australia template] applies not just to images made by Australian governments, but also those where the crown has acquired the copyright.": since the DCA notes (pp. 5 and 6 of the reference) don't mention it, my thought was "best leave it alone". I have now added the words.

"The clock starts ticking again...": I've had a longstanding note to action that in December 2026. :-) I don't believe it's necessary to add that detail to the template yet. However, we could easily add an "invisible note" in Edit mode to flag the necessity and I've done so.

"I strongly recommend that we keep the existing PD-Australia Gov for government images": I drafted my proposed PD-AustraliaGov template using the term "work", so it can be used to upload government photos. Nothing is lost by having a dedicated PD-AustraliaPhoto template, though, and I believe there is much benefit in having one simple "go-to" photographic template – it will be very much easier for people unfamiliar with the various alternatives. I've now added the draft PD-AustraliaGov template below for discussion.

Sam, I have taken on board your comments about the heading. Re your questions, "Maybe it should detail [applicable US templates] a bit more? Or is it all a bit complicated? Maybe just a link to the probable US PD templates that would apply", I think that's a great idea if we can keep it from being too complicated. A link to {{PD-1996|country=Australia}} for pre-1946 images would be a good candidate since it states: "This work is in the public domain in the United States because it meets three requirements:

• it was first published outside the United States (and not published in the U.S. within 30 days),
• it was first published before 1 March 1989 without copyright notice or before 1964 without copyright renewal or before the source country established copyright relations with the United States,
• it was in the public domain in its home country (Australia) on the URAA date (1 January 1996).

But what other templates could be linked, and how could we indicate there are others still? Does anyone know of a Commons or Wikipedia article that summarizes relevant US copyright? Although I'm familiar with the Hirtle Chart, I find US copyright forbidding. Does someone have the expertise?

After incorporating the above comments, the template now becomes:

Draft 7 May 2023

Australian copyright-expired photograph (PD-AustraliaPhoto) Copyright in this photograph has expired in Australia for either of the following reasons specified in Australian legislation: 1. Copyright was owned by a government of the Commonwealth of Australia or an Australian state or territory, or copyright was acquired by such government, and 50 years have elapsed since the end of the year in which the photograph was made. (In 2024, therefore, copyright has expired because it was made on or before 31 December 1973.) Or: 2. Copyright in the photograph was owned by an individual or an entity that was not an Australian government and the photograph was made before 1 January 1955. To upload a non-photographic work made or first published by a Commonwealth, state or territory government in which copyright has expired, please use the PD-AustraliaGov template. If an individual or a non-government entity previously owned copyright in a non-photographic work, the PD-Australia template should be used. This template must not be used to dedicate an uploader's own work to the public domain; CC0 should be used instead. To be hosted on Wikimedia Commons, a work must be out of copyright in both the source country and the United States. For non-government photographs, this file must have an additional tag showing why it is in the public domain in the United States. For government photographs, the Australian Government has confirmed that expiry of copyright applies worldwide (VTRS ticket 2017062010010417 refers) and a separate tag is therefore not required.

Australia

Here is the draft for an amended PD-AustraliaGov template. The main differences from the current version are:

• terminology as in the Act and government guidance – e.g. "copyright has expired" rather than "... is in the public domain"
• reference to "work" rather than "images", to cover non-photographic works
• "[copyright] is → was owned by ..."
• expiry is according to the Act (i.e., the 50+ year factor), with mention of 1973 retained for the information of the uploader
• worldwide expiry is now in a note together with the reason why it's significant
• replacement of the Commonwealth coat of arms with the Australian flag because state and territory governments are involved (as already included in the Wikipedia template)
• removal of links to NAA and ACC that currently appear in the Wikipedia template (because they are secondary sources).

In functional terms the template is unchanged.

Draft 7 May 2023

Copyright-expired work by an Australian government (PD-AustraliaGov) In accordance with Australian copyright legislation, copyright in this work, which was made or first published by a government of the Commonwealth of Australia or an Australian state or territory, has expired because 50 years have elapsed since the end of the year in which the work was made or first published. (In 2024, therefore, copyright has expired because it was made on or before 31 December 1973.) For a copyright-expired, non-photographic work made by an individual or a non-government entity, the PD-Australia template should be used. For a copyright-expired photograph made by an individual or a non-government entity, the PD-AustraliaPhoto template should be used. The Australian Government has confirmed that expiry of works first made or published by a government described above applies worldwide (VTRS ticket 2017062010010417 refers). A separate tag showing why this work is in the public domain in the United States is therefore not required.

Australia

Cheers, Simon – SCHolar44 🇦🇺 💬  at 13:37, 7 May 2023 (UTC)

After looking at them, I don't think the separate Photo tag is a good idea. The vast majority of the verbiage (and complication) is duplicated from the government template, and the remaining photographic term is simple enough to be a single line item (combining current lines A and B) in the PD-Australia template. The small text at the bottom is pretty extensive, and this tag is taking up a lot of room -- it's bigger than either of the existing tags. Just having the two tags would also simplify and shorten the pointers in the small text. The only reason I could see for having a separate template would be so it is a combined Australia/US template, which would use the 1946 date, which would then work without adding a separate US tag. For government photos, just tell the user to use PD-AustraliaGov instead (though no harm if they use such a template for pre-1946 government photos). That tag should hold for any photo taken before 1946 and first published in Australia before 1989, at least until 2042 (when PD-US-expired can possibly take over). Non-government photos taken later than 1946 cannot be uploaded, due to the URAA.

As for U.S. tags, there are a number of edge cases so the reasons can vary quite a bit, but usually it would be either {{PD-US-expired}} or {{PD-1996}}. You may want to make use of {{PD-old-warning-text}}, which several other tags do to get a somewhat standard U.S. tag warning.

The changes to the PD-AustraliaGov tag look good to me, except remove the "or first published" part from the "because 50 years have elapsed since the end of the year in which the work was made or first published" sentence, since the term is now based on date of creation only. The mention in "which was made or first published by a government" is accurate, since that is how a work becomes Crown Copyright in the first place. I do not like the removal of the term and link to "Crown copyright", since that is what the actual law uses. Section 180 of their law says the 50-year term applies to any work where the Commonwealth or State is the owner, which implies that any private copyright they acquire gets changed to that term. Their law also uses the term "work, sound recording or cinematograph film" for Crown Copyright since their definition of "work" in the law does not include the latter two, so they have to be mentioned specifically. Carl Lindberg (talk) 14:10, 7 May 2023 (UTC)

Hello Carl. Yes, the government-photo words are more or less the same as in the AustraliaGov template as proposed for amendment. But there are only 68 words; I wouldn't call that "verbiage (and complication)". However, I have cut the word count to 52 by omitting the tip about the cut-off date. More about that later.

Mention of the user tip prompts me to suggest there might be a difference in our respective focuses: I have the semi-inept uploader in mind (having gained much experience early on while enjoying that status), and you, with your long familiarity with Wikipedia/Commons copyright matters, may be looking more at consistency "in the system" as your priority. I'm inferring from your comment, "the small text at the bottom is pretty extensive, and this tag is taking up a lot of room -- it's bigger than either of the existing tags.", that you might see information that clarifies things for the inexperienced uploader as being much lower in priority. I see it unequivocally as a positive, because my first thought is, "What helps Joe/Jo Average to understand what they need to?" Therefore, I personally don't see any reason for concern about the overall length of the template. I can't see any downside to it, as long as the help is relevant and concise. However ... (thinks) ... we could put the notes into a collapsible wikitable. I have drafted such a format below to see what you and others think about it. (That's where I have also put the info about the December 1972 cut-off date.)

Re "remove the 'or first published' part from the 'because 50 years have elapsed since the end of the year in which the work was made or first published' sentence, since the term is now based on date of creation only", "first published" applies to government photographs (p. 4, first row of the government guidelines), which are included in the AustraliaGov template . If photos were excluded from the template, we could of course omit those two words. Do you agree, or am I confused?  :-)

Re your "Section 180 of the [Copyright Act] says the 50-year term applies to any work where the Commonwealth or State is the owner, which implies that any private copyright they acquire gets changed to that term": I agree.

Thank you for mentioning that the Copyright Act "also uses the term 'work, sound recording or cinematograph film' for Crown Copyright since their definition of 'work' in the law does not include the latter two, so they have to be mentioned specifically." I had thought about that but didn't include because (a) it isn't in the government guidelines at present (b) such uploads are extremely rare. If you like the collapsible-table solution to the template size, it can be covered easily – and I've added "published editions of works" (s. 88 of the Act, following ss. 86 and 87 covering sound recordings and films). What do you think?

You said, "I do not like the removal of the term and link to "Crown copyright", since that is what the actual law uses." I've been using the nomenclature that appears in the government guidelines, where "Crown copyright" doesn't appear at all. I did previously have "expired" linked to Wikipedia's Crown copyright article but it "got lost", so I have restored it. The term may be known by some in former British colonies but for some contributors it will invoke connotations of British involvement – whereas it simply means "government-owned copyright", which is instantly understandable by the average person. (Interestingly, Part VII, Crown copyright, of the Copyright Act only mentions Crown copyright in the headings (ss. 176 to 178 and 180), not in the body text, and I suspect that may be one reason it is not mentioned in the government guidance.)

Here is the template incorporating all your comments, Carl, except for "Crown copyright" pending further discussion.

Draft 8 May 2023

Copyright-expired work by an Australian government (PD-AustraliaGov) In accordance with Australian copyright legislation, copyright in this work, which was made or first published by a government of the Commonwealth of Australia or an Australian state or territory, has expired because 50 years have elapsed since the end of the year in which the work was made or first published. Important information – please read before uploading Expired copyright in 2024 In 2024, copyright has expired if a work was made or first published by an Australian government on or before 31 December 1973. Government-made sound recordings, cinematic films and published editions of works As for "works" above. Uploading copyright-expired non-government  works Photographs: use the PD-AustraliaPhoto template. Non-photographic works: use the PD-Australia template. U.S. public domain tag The Australian Government has confirmed that expiry of works first made or published by a government described above applies worldwide (VTRS ticket 2017062010010417 refers). A separate tag showing why this work is in the public domain in the United States is therefore not required.

Australia

Can anyone tell me what's causing the green "+" symbol to the right of "Expand"?

Also, here's the AustraliaPhoto template with the same treatment:

Draft 8 May 2023

Australian copyright-expired photograph (PD-AustraliaPhoto) Copyright in this photograph has expired in Australia for either of the following reasons specified in Australian legislation: 1. Copyright was owned by a government of the Commonwealth of Australia or an Australian state or territory, or copyright was acquired by such government, and 50 years have elapsed since the end of the year in which the photograph was made. Or: 2. Copyright was owned by an individual or an entity that was not an Australian government and the photograph was made before 1 January 1955. Important information – please read before uploading Uploading your own photo Do not use this template to dedicate your own work to the public domain; CC0 should be used instead. Expired copyright in government photographs in 2024 In 2024, copyright has expired if a work was made or first published by an Australian government on or before 31 December 1973. Uploading copyright-expired non-photographic  works Works made by an individual or a non-government entity: use the PD-Australia. Works made or first published by a government described above: use the PD-AustraliaGov template. Also note that a separate tag showing why this work is in the public domain in the United States is not required for these works. U.S. public domain tag Non-government photos: To be hosted on Wikimedia Commons, a photograph must be out of copyright in both the source country and the United States. This file must therefore have an additional tag showing why it is in the public domain in the United States. [1946 factor??] Government photos: The Australian Government has confirmed that expiry of works first made or published by a government described above applies worldwide (VTRS ticket 2017062010010417 refers). A separate U.S. public domain tag is therefore not required.

Australia

Cheers, Simon – SCHolar44 🇦🇺 💬  at 12:47, 8 May 2023 (UTC)

Mention of the VRT ticket on the Gov tag should be visible, since that shows that no U.S. tag is needed. That fact complicates the proposed Photo tag, and adds a lot of needed space since that would need to be repeated there (and made clear that does *not* apply to the non-government photographs, which still need a U.S. tag). Unless you make the Photo tag a 1946 line, and ignore the Gov aspect (since any pre-1946 Gov photos would also qualify for that). Putting stuff in the tool tip helps, though can hide very important information. I get the desire to simplify for new users, but I don't think it does -- the PD-Australia tag can have a very simple one-line mention of photographs at the top. If you change Photo to be the 1946 line, that probably would simplify things, and having pointers to PD-AustraliaGov for those works in small text would make more sense.

Fair enough on the Crown Copyright question. The link is probably enough.

On "first published" ... that is what makes a work Crown Copyright in the first place. It has nothing to do with the term, which is the last column on page 4 of their guidance and mentions nothing about publication. So, which was made or first published by a government of the Commonwealth of Australia is accurate. But, because 50 years have elapsed since the end of the year in which the work was made or first published is not -- there is no need for "or first published" in that sentence. The guidance for government no longer spells out photos specifically, since 50 years from creation (which has to happen before publication anyways) is the only term for any work. And yes, it's the same term for sound recordings or cinematographic films, which they list separately due to their law wording but you could combine as you say. Your Photo tag simply says owned by a government; not sure you need to add the acquired bit -- I was more referring to the Gov template, which you still have "made or first published" as the qualifying criteria, though their law also includes acquired copyrights in that term. The Gov tag could simply be similarly changed to "owned", since "made or first published" is the usual way that "owned" happens. Carl Lindberg (talk) 14:39, 8 May 2023 (UTC)

Many thanks for taking the time to expand on your ideas, Carl. Today I'll deliberate on them when I have some quiet time and experiment with what might work best, including in the PD-Australia template. SCHolar44 (talk) 23:24, 8 May 2023 (UTC)

Carl, I have implemented the gist of your recommendations in your first paragraph, plus:

"Mention of the VRT ticket on the Gov tag should be visible": done. Includes an asterisk to a line in the notes clarifying (some of) the objects that come under the mantle of works.

"there is no need for 'or first published' in that sentence": removed, albeit I'm still a bit flummoxed about it, since you say "the last column on page 4 of their guidance and mentions nothing about publication". Page 4 is non-government; on page 5, government material, includes "or first published" in column 1 row 1. Tentatively, I have retained "or first published" in the cell headed Uploading 'non-photographic works in the AustraliaPhoto template.

"... owned by a government; not sure you need to add the acquired bit ... ": an error; removed.

Following I have set out four templates, resulting from your much-appreciated advice and my subsequent thinking:

• AustraliaGov
• AustraliaPhoto
  – version 1: it invokes your idea of putting information about the need to add / not add a U.S. template within the main body of the template
  – version 2: with that information included in the pop-down notes
• PD-Australia, integrated with the AustraliaGov and AustraliaPhoto templates heavily influenced by their content.

PD-AustraliaGov

Content is equivalent to the existing template, as evolved here but still covering the same ground, except that the "published before ..." date is in the pop-down notes. In the notes there is an explanation of what "works" are. Finally there is guidance on which templates to use for photos and other works that weren't made by an Australian government.

The pop-down is my proposed solution to keeping the template as first presented fairly brief; the idea came to me when I was contemplating one of your remarks about this conundrum, for which I send many thanks! Taking on board your remark of uploaders not noticing text in small print (words to that effect), I included warning triangle in the visible bar and worded it so as to prompt action.

Draft 10 May 2023

Copyright-expired work by an Australian government (PD-AustraliaGov) In accordance with Australian copyright legislation, copyright in this work, which was made by a government of the Commonwealth of Australia or an Australian state or territory, has expired because 50 years have elapsed since the end of the year in which it was made. A separate template showing why this work* is in the public domain in the United States is not required since expiry of works made by an Australian government applies worldwide (VTRS ticket 2017062010010417 refers).      Important information – please expand and read before uploading      Works * In this template, works include (but are not limited to) government-made artistic works (including photographs), sound recordings, cinematic films, and published editions of works. Literary works include a table, or compilation, expressed in words, figures or symbols, and a computer program or compilation of computer programs. Expired copyright in 2024 In 2024, copyright has expired if a work was made by an Australian government on or before 31 December 1973. Uploading copyright-expired works not made by a government Photographs: use the PD-AustraliaPhoto template. Non-photographic works: use the PD-Australia template.

Australia

PD-AustraliaPhoto (version 1)

The version 1 design follows your preference for having an explanation of the need respectively to not have / have a US PD template. The pop-down notes cover the most relevant factors for photo uploads, especially guidance on other templates.

Draft 10 May 2023

Australian copyright-expired photograph (PD-AustraliaPhoto)                    [VERSION 1: TEMPLATE GUIDANCE IN BODY OF TEMPLATE] Copyright in this photograph has expired in Australia for either of the following two reasons specified in Australian legislation: 1. Copyright was owned by a government of the Commonwealth of Australia or an Australian state or territory and 50 years have elapsed since the end of the year in which the photograph was made. A separate template showing why an Australian government-made photograph is in the public domain in the United States is not required since expiry of works made by a government applies worldwide (VTRS ticket 2017062010010417 refers). 2. Copyright was owned by an individual or an entity that was not an Australian government and the photograph was made before 1 January 1955. To be hosted on Wikimedia Commons, a non-government work must be out of copyright in both the source country and the United States. As a non-US, non-government work, this file must therefore have an additional template showing why it is in the public domain in the US.      Important information – please expand and read before uploading      Uploading your own photo Do not use this template to dedicate your own work to the public domain; CC0 must be used instead. Expired copyright in government photographs in 2024 In 2024, copyright has expired if a work was made by an Australian government on or before 31 December 1973. Uploading non-photographic  works Works made by an individual or a non-government entity: use the PD-Australia template. Works made by a government described above: use the PD-AustraliaGov template; do not add a separate template showing why this work is in the public domain in the United States. U.S. public domain template (non-government photos only) A copyright template showing why a non-government photo is also in the public domain in the United States must be added below this template. The most frequently used are: PD-US-expired|Australia for a photo made before 1928 PD-1996|Australia for a photo made before 1946 PD-old-70 for a photo whose author died before 1953. Failing the above, if no other option remains, the photo may be eligible for uploading to Wikipedia under provisions for non-free use. "Author" of a photograph Since 1 May 1969, the "author" in relation to a photograph means the person who took the photograph. Before then, the author was the person who owned the material on which the photo was taken, unless the owner of the material was a body corporate, in which case it meant the photographer.

Australia

PD-AustraliaPhoto (version 2)

This version puts the explanation of the need respectively to not have / have a US PD template into the pop-down notes. To be frank I was wavering a bit about my preference for having a dedicated template for photos, but two things swung me back: the clean appearance of this one, and the reduction in size of the PD-Australia template.

Draft 10 May 2023

Australian copyright-expired photograph (PD-AustraliaPhoto)                    [VERSION 2: TEMPLATE GUIDANCE IN POP-DOWN] Copyright in this photograph has expired in Australia for either of the following two reasons specified in Australian legislation: 1. Copyright was owned by a government of the Commonwealth of Australia or an Australian state or territory and 50 years have elapsed since the end of the year in which the photograph was made. Or: 2. Copyright was owned by an individual or an entity that was not an Australian government and the photograph was made before 1 January 1955.      Important information – please expand and read before uploading      Uploading your own photo Do not use this template to dedicate your own work to the public domain; CC0 must be used instead. Photos made by an Australian government do not require a U.S. public domain template If this photo was made by a government of the Commonwealth of Australia or an Australian state or territory, a separate template showing why a government-made photograph is in the public domain in the United States is not required since expiry of works made by a government applies worldwide (VTRS ticket 2017062010010417 refers). Non-government photos require an additional U.S. public domain template To upload a photo to Wikimedia Commons that was not made by a government described above, it must be followed by a template showing why it is in the public domain in the U.S. The most frequently occurring U.S. templates are: PD-US-expired|Australia for a photo made before 1928 PD-1996|Australia for a photo made before 1946 PD-old-70 for a photo whose author died before 1953. If no alternative exists, the photo may be eligible for uploading to Wikipedia (not Wikimedia Commons) under provisions for non-free use. Expired copyright in government photographs in 2024 In 2024, copyright has expired if a work was made by an Australian government on or before 31 December 1973. Uploading non-photographic  works To upload a non-photographic work made by an individual or a non-government entity: use the PD-Australia template. To upload a non-photographic work made by a government described above: use the PD-AustraliaGov template. "Author" of a photograph Since 1 May 1969, the "author" in relation to a photograph means the person who took the photograph. Before then, the author was the person who owned the material on which the photo was taken, unless the owner of the material was a body corporate, in which case it meant the photographer.

Australia

PD-Australia

I hadn't previously dwelt much on the specific content of this one, although I had studied the present PD-Australia template and the corresponding elements in the Australian Government guidance.

At first glance it looks rather like the present one. However, that's not so. First, it doesn't have any of the ifs/buts of the matrix in the present two PD-Australia templates. The fact that five rows are present derives from there being five categories (when looking at the highest level) in the first three pages of the Australian Government guidance, i.e. dealing with policies for non-government works. Row 1 deals with the vast majority, but I think it's essential to cover the other four.

And now I come to another advantage of having the AustraliaPhoto template: together with the AustraliaGov template, it takes government-made works entirely out of this template, leading to the relative simplicity of its content.

In these three templates, in addition to aligning the content to current policies I have been able to address a number of factors that the current templates don't, all of which have been brought up in (much) earlier discussions – and to add some on-the-spot guidance that I think will be really helpful, especially to newcomers. They will probably need some refinement as others put their minds to this. However, I'm pleased to have been able to incorporate the policies in templates that, on first sight (before activating the pop-downs), are no larger than the current ones.

Draft 10 May 2023

Australian copyright-expired works (PD-Australia) Copyright in this work, which was made by an individual or a non-government entity (i.e., not a government of the Commonwealth of Australia or an Australian state or territory), has expired in Australia for one of the following reasons specified in Australian legislation: Type of material Copyright expires ... 1. Artistic works, literary, dramatic or musical works, engravings, sound recordings, cinematic films, literary works (including tables, or compilations, expressed in words, figures or symbols, and computer programs or compilations of computer programs), and published editions of works Note:  Copyright does not impose standards of quality for these works. The category of literary works, for example, includes administrative documents. 70 years after the end of the year in which the work was made public: if made public within 50 years of being made if work made public after author's death   (example:   death 1925; made public 1950; out of copyright 1 January 2021) if author is unknown and work was made public. 70 years after the end of the year in which the work was made: if made public more than 50 years after being made  (example:  made 1950; made public 2004; out of copyright 1 January 2021) if author is unknown and work was never made public. 2. Computer programs Life of author + 70 years 3. Published editions of works Year published + 25 years 4. Editions first published by an international organisation Year made public + 25 years 5. Broadcasts Year of broadcast + 50 years      Important information – please expand and read before uploading      Copyright templates for other types of work A photograph (whether made by an Australian government or a non-government entity): PD-AustraliaPhoto Uploading your own photograph or other work and dedicating it to the public domain: CC0 A non-photographic work made by an Australian government: PD-AustraliaGov Non-government works require an additional U.S. public domain template To upload a work to Wikimedia Commons that was not made by an Australian government, it must be followed by a template showing why it is in the public domain in the U.S. The most frequently occurring U.S. templates are: PD-US-expired|Australia for a photo made before 1928 PD-1996|Australia for a photo made before 1946 PD-old-70 for a photo whose author died before 1953. If no suitable template exists, the photo may be eligible for uploading to Wikipedia (not Wikimedia Commons) under provisions for non-free use.

Australia

I know some inconsistencies exist in the wording of a couple of templates and there's some cruft in the coding, but here they are for consideration. I look forward to comments! And thanks again, Carl, for setting me in several respects on the right path. Cheers, Simon – SCHolar44 🇦🇺 💬  at 14:40, 10 May 2023 (UTC)

You cannot remove photographs from PD-Australia because countless photos have already been uploaded using it. I continue to believe that the Photo tag, as proposed, only complicates things and does not simplify anything. A PD-AustraliaPhoto-1996 tag would make sense to me though; that would simplify things by only needing that tag with no separate US tag, and not misleading uploaders into uploading post 1946 photos when we know they are not eligible for Commons. Carl Lindberg (talk) 08:37, 12 May 2023 (UTC)

@Clindberg: Aaarrgghh! Of course! I never thought of that ... thank you for pointing it out. OK, to Plan B. Will amend the drafts – including a PD-AustraliaPhoto-1996 tag, a great idea.

@Clindberg: and anyone else watching, I have re-drafted the templates following the discussion 3 days ago:

• PD-Australia: now contains non-government works, including photographs. It is heavily based on the non-government tables in the Australian Government guidance containing the updated, and expanded, criteria. This has expanded the table to 7 rows. But it doesn't require the detailed attention of the current version – it only requires a "simple read" down the "Type of material" column. The pop-down notes are intended to make the job easier for an unfamiliar uploader. Clarification of what categories dreary documents and drawings come under now has links.
• PD-AustraliaGov: now covers government photographs. The pop-down notes give links to other templates and explanation of the non-necessity of US copyright expiry.
• PD-AustraliaPhoto-1996: as you suggested. Notes cover the "why 1946/URAA?" aspect.

Draft 15 May 2023

Australian copyright-expired works (non-government) (PD-Australia) Copyright in this work, which was owned by an individual or a non-government entity (i.e., not a government of the Commonwealth of Australia or an Australian state or territory), has expired in Australia for one of the following reasons specified in Australian legislation: Type of material Copyright expires ... 1. Artistic works (other than photographs or engravings), literary, dramatic or musical works, engravings, sound recordings, cinematic films, literary works (including tables, or compilations, expressed in words, figures or symbols, and computer programs or compilations of computer programs), and published editions of works Note:  Copyright does not require a work to have creative, novel or inventive qualities. So, for example, administrative documents are categorised as literary works  and paintings, sculptures, drawings (which includes diagrams, maps, charts or plans), engravings and photographs are categorised as artistic works.  . 70 years after the end of the year in which the work was made public: if made public within 50 years of being made if work made public after author's death  (example:   death 1925; made public 1950; out of copyright 1 January 2021) if author is unknown and work was made public. 70 years after the end of the year in which the work was made: if made public not within 50 years of being made  (example:  made 1900; made public 1950; out of copyright 1 January 2021) if author is unknown and work was never made public. 2. Photographs * Note:  Files in Wikimedia Commons not covered by a copyright licence must also be in the public domainin the United States. If the image was made before 1 January 1946, use the PD-AustraliaPhoto-1996 template. 70 years after the end of the year in which the work was made public: if the author is unknown (unless made before 1 January 1955, in which case copyright has expired) * 70 years after the end of the year in which the work was made: if never made public. 3. Engravings 70 years after the end of the year in which: the author died (before 1 January 2019) and the work was made public after death  (example:   died 1945; made public 1950; out of copyright 1 January 2021) the author died before the work was made public on or after 1 January 2019 the author died having never made the work public. 4. Computer programs 70 years after the end of the year in which the author died 5. Published editions of works 25 years after the end of the year in which the edition was published 6. Editions first published by an international organisation 25 years after the end of the year in which the edition was made public 7. Broadcasts 50 years after the end of the year in which the broadcast occurred      Important information – please expand and read before uploading      Copyright templates for other types of work Uploading your own photograph or other work and dedicating it to the public domain: CC0 Uploading a photograph or non-photographic work made by an Australian government: PD-AustraliaGov An additional US public domain template is required To upload a work to Wikimedia Commons, unless it was made by an Australian government it must also have a template showing why it is in the public domain in the US. The most relevant US templates are usually: for a photo made before 1928: PD-US-expired with "|Australia" added as parameter for a photo made 1928–1945: PD-1996 with "|Australia" added as parameter for a photo whose author died before 1953: PD-old-70. If no suitable template exists, the photo may be eligible for uploading to Wikipedia (not Wikimedia Commons) under provisions for non-free use in the US. See guidelines.

Australia

Draft 15 May 2023

Copyright-expired work by an Australian government (PD-AustraliaGov) In accordance with Australian copyright legislation, copyright in this work, which was made by a government of the Commonwealth of Australia or an Australian state or territory, has expired because 50 years have elapsed since the end of the year in which it was made. This template does not need a supplementary template showing why this work* is in the public domain in the United States. Why? Click [Expand].      Important information – please expand and read before uploading      What's the relevance of US copyright? To be published in Wikimedia Commons, all works must be in the public domain in the United States. Expiry of copyright in works made by an Australian government applies worldwide, as confirmed by VTRS ticket 2017062010010417. Expired copyright in 2024 In 2024, copyright has expired if a work was made by an Australian government on or before 31 December 1973. Uploading copyright-expired works not made by a government Non-government photographs made before 1946:  use the PD-AustraliaPhoto-1996 template. See notes in that template for more recent photos. Non-government non-photographic works:  use the PD-Australia template. Works * In this template, works include (but are not limited to) government-made artistic works (including photographs and drawings), sound recordings, cinematic films, and published editions of works. Literary works include a table, or compilation, expressed in words, figures or symbols, and a computer program or compilation of computer programs. Note:  Copyright does not require a work to have creative, novel or inventive qualities. So, for example, administrative documents are categorised as literary works.

Australia

Draft 15 May 2023

Pre-1946 Australian photograph (non-government) (PD-AustraliaPhoto-1996) This template covers expiry of copyright in both Australia and the United States for non-government photographs made before 1946. A separate template for US copyright is not required. For photos made by an Australian government, the PD-AustraliaGov template should be used. Copyright in Australia In accordance with Australian copyright legislation, copyright in this photograph has expired because it was owned by an individual or an entity that was not an Australian government and the photograph was made before 1 January 1955. Copyright in the United States This Australian non-government photograph is in the public domain in the United States because it was made before 1 January 1946. Details? Click [Expand].      Important information – please expand and read before uploading      What's the relevance of Australian non-government photographs entering the US public domain? Although Australian copyright in non-government photographs expired in 1955, to be published in Wikimedia Commons they must be in the public domain in the United States. Such a photograph is in the US public domain only if it was made before 1 January 1946. The reason is that its expiry precedes the "URAA date", 1 January 1996, after which, under the US Uruguay Round Agreements Act 1994, US copyright applies to certain non-US works that have previously been in the US public domain. Non-government photographs made between 1 January 1946 and 31 December 1954 Copyright in an Australian photograph has expired if made by an individual or a non-government entity before 1 January 1955. However, a photograph made between 1 January 1946 and 31 December 1954 cannot be uploaded to Wikimedia Commons because of US copyright legislation. It may be eligible, however, for uploading to Wikipedia under provisions for non-free use in the United States. Photos made by an Australian government Please use the AustraliaGov template. Non-photographic works To upload a non-photographic work made by an Australian individual or non-government entity: use the PD-Australia template. To upload a non-photographic work made by an Australian government: use the PD-AustraliaGov template. "Author" of a photograph Since 1 May 1969, the "author" in relation to a photograph means the person who took the photograph. Before then, the author was the person who owned the material on which the photo was taken, unless the owner of the material was a body corporate, in which case it meant the photographer.

Australia

Cheers, Simon – SCHolar44 🇦🇺 💬 at 13:53, 15 May 2023 (UTC)

I have subsequently corrected the links I had entered in the last note in the PD-Australia template. SCHolar44 (talk) 06:23, 16 May 2023 (UTC)

Summary of progress with the PD-Australia templates as of 17 May 2023

To anyone who has come in at this stage and who doesn't want to wade through the to-and-fro developmental comments, here is a summary of the implementation, so far, of the upgrade to the PD-Australia family of templates – shown above.

The need

Features that need fixing:

• To bring the sources up to date, using the latest version of the Copyright Act and Australian Government guidance rather than the Australian Copyright Council's notes.
• To reduce the amount of thinking needed by an inexperienced uploader when using the PD-Australia template, and generally to put user-friendliness to the fore throughout.
• To have consistency both within the Australian templates and between Commons and Wikipedia templates (other than such things as US fair use).

At the beginning I had been keen on having an additional template dealing only with Australian photos (government and non-government) on the grounds of simplifying the most frequent type of uploading. I did a U-turn on that when Carl Lindberg, who has been immensely helpful throughout, pointed out that photographs cannot be removed from PD-Australia because countless photos have already been uploaded using it. He added, "A PD-AustraliaPhoto-1996 tag would make sense to me though; that would simplify things by only needing that tag with no separate US tag, and not misleading uploaders into uploading post 1946 photos when we know they are not eligible for Commons." As a result, one of the three templates deals specifically with that.

Main differences

The wording of the Copyright Act and Australian Government guidance is closely followed throughout, except when necessary to avoid confusion. For example, I have expressed "Life of author + 50 years" (in the guidance) as "... 50 years have elapsed since the end of the year in which the photograph was made or first published", which leaves no room for doubt.

The present PD-AustraliaGov template in Commons declares that an image is in the public domain "... because it was created or published prior to 1973 ...". That is only a consequence of the policy, which rests on whether the year in which the work was made or first published, plus 50 years, have passed. I have put that as the reason, but have still kept the moving date since it's helpful to inexperienced uploaders.

The Australian flag, which is displayed in the PD–AustraliaGov template in Wikipedia but not in Commons, replaces the Commonwealth coat of arms, because the policy applies to state and territory governments as well.

Implementation

Each template has its title at the top to make it more likely that the correct one is used and to inform less familiar users – especially to clarify the government/non-government factor.

To minimise the visible length of the templates, I included notes in a collapsed pop-down, leaving only the fundamental elements in the main body. This didn't help with the PD-Australia template – the complexity of copyright policy has mandated 7 rows in the table (seemingly; suggestions welcome). That said, the table does not require the mental effort involved in the present template to determine eligibility. Without adding to the length, it also includes examples of "which year is it?" in each of made public / made / died situations, and notes explaining that a work does not have to have creative, novel or inventive qualities.

I have left notes in Edit mode for action that will be needed on 1 January 2027 (changing from the fixed 1955 date to a moving "current date minus 71").

The notes should be self-explanatory. Generally they seek to answer points of confusion evident on page histories and talk pages, and they have links to other temp{odlates.

Comments and support

Please make comments, especially if you see something I haven't thought of. Don't hesitate to ask why I have chosen particular content/words if you can't infer why. Then, leaving "Support" or "Support subject to …" would be greatly appreciated (and a lot more than "Oppose").  ;-) Cheers, Simon – SCHolar44 🇦🇺 💬 at 04:55, 17 May 2023 (UTC)

Support. This looks fantastic. Wikimedia Australia have been wanting to put something like this together, so I'm going to share it with the team there. Jimmyjrg (talk) 04:24, 22 May 2023 (UTC)

 Support Looks great! One tweak that might be useful is to add one or two non-photo items under "The most relevant US templates are usually" in PD-Australia. At the moment all three are "for a photo" (although can also be used on other types of work). — Sam Wilson ( Talk • Contribs ) … 01:49, 24 May 2023 (UTC)

Thank you for your comments, Jimmy and Sam. I'm looking forward to feedback from members of Wikimedia Australia and others, because the templates as they now stand need some thorough critiquing (and new ideas). Sam's comment exemplifies the sort that comes from a new set of eyes: despite doing checks for "photo/work", those three mentions of photos slipped through without my even noticing them, and I doubt I would ever have on my own. So please cast highly critical eyes over, especially, PD-Australia – e.g., against the Australian Government guidance. Although I put a huge amount of time into researching it, I have a nagging feeling that faults may still be present.

Sam, I've resolved your point simply by changing the three instances of "photo" to "work". If you think that still leaves something amiss, please let me know.   :-)   Cheers, Simon – SCHolar44 🇦🇺 💬 at 07:36, 24 May 2023 (UTC)

@SCHolar44: Thanks, looks good! And I'll have a more thorough read through. :) — Sam Wilson ( Talk • Contribs ) … 00:29, 25 May 2023 (UTC)

The Photo one looks good to me. The Gov one also looks good, though the wording should probably be copyright in this work, which was made, first published, or owned by a government, since the law also makes works created by others, but first published by a government, under the government copyright term (the UK used to be the same way, but that changed in their 1988 law). Also, copyrights later acquired by the government seem to get that term too. The term itself is now based only on date of creation, but the fact of first publishing by a government changes it to Crown Copyright.

The main PD-Australia tag... barely mentions life+70 terms at all, which is the term for most works (or will be soon). Most works were life+50, then got a 20-year pause starting in 2005 when works still under copyright were changed to life+70. The listed terms seem to be mostly only for unknown authors. For known authors, the term is either died before 1955, otherwise life+70. The one exception is for engravings, literary, dramatic, or musical works if first published after the author's death but before 2019 -- then the term is publication+70. Posthumous works first made public after 2019 are now a straight 70pma with publication date no longer mattering -- death in 1970, first publication 2019, it will be PD in 2041. Also, photographs made before 1955 remain PD, of course. I think it also needs to still mention government works, since that tag predated PD-AustraliaGov and some government uploads may still be using it. Currently, the life+70 term cannot have expired, so everything that can be uploaded today will only be for authors who died before 1955, but that will change in 2026. If we are not dealing with the 2026 situation yet, the current tag is more accurate I think, even though it omits the posthumous publication edge cases.

If we are ignoring the 2026+ situation, the hierarchy may be:

A) Government works -- expired if made more than 50 years ago (preferably use PD-AustraliaGov)

B) Photographs taken before 1955 -- public domain (use PD-AustraliaPhoto-1996 if possible)

C) Anonymous/unknown works (other than A and B) -- expired if published before 1955

D) Published editions -- published more than 25 years ago

E) Anything else -- author died before 1955, with the posthumous publication edge case for engraving, musical, literary, and dramatic works only.

For 2026+, A and B don't change, C changes to published more than 70 years ago, or made more than 70 years ago with not being published within 50 years, D stays the same, and E changes to died more than 70 years ago, with the posthumous publication edge case only for publication before 2019. Post-1955 photos fall under C or E, depending if the author is known or not.

You may want a different organization than that, but as far as I can see engravings are treated the same as literary/dramatic/musical works. Computer programs, post-1955 photos, and all other artistic works are a straight life+70 with publication not mattering. Sound recordings made before 1955 are PD, just like photos, and otherwise have the same term as anonymous works I think. Cinematographic films are hard; films made before May 1969 are not protected as such, but rather as their component parts (script is a dramatic or literary work, also sound recordings, photographs, etc.). So, that term really can't be used until 2040, when 1969 movies would expire like anonymous works / sound recordings regardless of their component parts. Carl Lindberg (talk) 14:59, 24 May 2023 (UTC)

Thank you, Carl. This is hugely valuable. A large part of my thinking has been to balance what must appear and what can be glossed over, and it is an aspect on which I was hoping to receive rigorous evaluation. I'll re-examine all of this afresh and will come back with the results in a couple of days. Cheers, Simon – SCHolar44 🇦🇺 💬 at 03:58, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

Carl and others interested: your last comments prompted me to give up on my aim to traipse over the tops of the policy in pursuit of brevity; I realized that there is no alternative to covering the whole policy in all its grinding detail. It's unfortunate, but necessarily driven by the immense increase in complexity that resulted from the AUSFTA. The structure and content follows the Australian Government guidelines very closely, although in some instances I have been able to combine categories.

After experimenting with a few ideas – which is why it took me more than "a couple" of days – I have now developed, for the PD-Australia template, a "hide the detail" design in which the uploader will first choose the type of work from a list of 10 factors then pop the relevant one down for details. For complex types I have included a link to an explanatory timeline diagram I've created that gives the details in graphical form. There are five of these; the other five are simple. As you'll see, the detail is under the hood, including some information previously not mentioned at all; the template as it appears on screen to non-uploading page visitors is not all that long.

I think I have covered all the matters you brought up, Carl. Please don't hesitate to let me know if there is anything that needs further amendment.

One question: could you elaborate on the "2026 situation" as you see it, to make sure we are aligned before I do some work on that?

Even more rigorous inspection will now be necessary, hopefully including by the Wikimedia Australia people, who have been invited to comment, and others familiar with the subject.

Also below are the other two templates, not much changed but incorporating comments.

Draft 3 June 2023

Australian copyright-expired works (non-government) (PD-Australia) Copyright in this work, which was owned by an individual or a non-government entity (i.e., not a government of the Commonwealth of Australia or an Australian state or territory) and was made before 1 January 2019, has expired in Australia in accordance with copyright legislation. It is the uploader's responsibility to ensure that copyright has expired in Australia before uploading a previously copyrighted work. This can be done by selecting the type of work from the following list, clicking on the [Expand] link, and checking whether all the criteria shown have been satisfied. Guidance in the "Important information" list should also be considered. With the exception of works made by an Australian government and those covered by a copyright licence, an upload of an Australian work to Wikimedia Commons must also include a template covering its public domain status in the United States. Works made before 1 January 1946 are in the US public domain. In the case of pre-1946 Australian photographs, a PD‑AustraliaPhoto‑1996 template, which incorporates both the Australian and US public domain status, can be used. Literary, dramatic or musical works, and engravings For these types of work, copyright expires in Australia if: the author died before 1 January 1955; otherwise, if the work was made public before the author's death: 70 years after the end of the year in which the author died; or the work was made public before 1 January 1955; otherwise, if the work was made public after the author's death and before 1 January 2019: 70 years after the end of the year in which the work was made public; or the author died before 1 January 1949; otherwise, if made public after the author's death on or after 1 January 2019, or if the work was never made public: 70 years after the end of the year in which the author died. Note:  Copyright does not require a work to have creative, novel or inventive qualities. So, for example, administrative documents are categorised as literary works  and photographs are categorised as artistic works.     A graphical version of the above criteria is here. Artistic works (not photographs or engravings) For this type of work, copyright expires in Australia if the author died before 1 January 1955; otherwise, 70 years after the end of the year in which the author died. Photographs and computer programs (author known) For these types of work (which includes compilations of computer programs), copyright expires in Australia if the photo or computer program was made before 1 January 1955; otherwise, 70 years after the end of the year in which the author died. Photos and other works (author not known) For these types of work, copyright expires in Australia if the work was: made before 1 January 1955; otherwise, if it was made public before 1 January 2019: 70 years after the end of the year in which it was made public; or made public on or after 1 January 2019 and within 50 years of being made (i.e., made on or after 1 January 1969): 70 years after the end of the year in which it was made public; or made public on or after 1 January 2019 and more than 50 years since being made (i.e., made before 1 January 1969): 70 years after the end of the year in which it was made; or never made public and was made before 1 January 1955; or if made after then, 70 years after the end of the year in which it was made.    A graphical version of the above criteria is here. Sound recordings For this type of work, copyright expires in Australia if the work was made before 1 January 1955. Otherwise: if it was made public before 1 January 2019: 70 years after the end of the year in which it was made public; or if made public on or after 1 January 2019 and within 50 years of being made (i.e., made on or after 1 January 1969): 70 years after the end of the year in which it was made public; or if made public on or after 1 January 2019 and more than 50 years since being made (i.e., made before 1 January 1969): 70 years after the end of the year in which it was made; or if never made public: 70 years after the end of the year in which it was made.    A graphical version of the above criteria is here. Broadcasts For this type of work, copyright expires in Australia 50 years after the end of the year in which the broadcast was made. Note: Television broadcasts and sound broadcasts are protected separately to the underlying works, sound recordings and films being broadcast. Copyright does not subsist under section 91 of the Copyright Act 1968 in a television or sound broadcast made before the Act commenced (1 May 1969), or in a later broadcast that is a repetition of a broadcast made before the Act commenced. Cinematographic films made on or after 1 May 1969 For this type of work, copyright expires in Australia: if it was made public before 1 January 2019: 70 years after the end of the year in which it was made public; or if made public on or after 1 January 2019 and within 50 years of being made (i.e., made on or after 1 January 1969): 70 years after the end of the year in which it was made public; or if made public on or after 1 January 2019 and more than 50 years since being made (i.e., made before 1 January 1969): 70 years after the end of the year in which it was made; or if never made public: 70 years after the end of the year in which it was made.    A graphical version of the above criteria is here. Published editions (not by an international organisation) For this type of work, copyright expires in Australia if the edition was published before 1 January 1994; otherwise, 25 years after the end of the year in which it was published. Editions first published by an international organisation For this type of work, copyright expires in Australia if the edition was made public before 1 January 1994; otherwise, 25 years after the end of the year in which it was made public. Works made or first published by an international organisation For this type of work, copyright expires in Australia: if it was made public before 1 January 2019; otherwise, 70 years after the end of the year in which it was made public; or if made public on or after 1 January 2019 and within 50 years of being made (i.e., made on or after 1 January 1969): 70 years after the end of the year in which it was made public; or if made public on or after 1 January 2019 and more than 50 years since being made (i.e., made before 1 January 1969): 70 years after the end of the year in which it was made; or if never made public: 70 years after the end of the year in which it was made.    A graphical version of the above criteria is here.      Important information – please expand and read before uploading      Copyright templates for other types of work Uploading your own photograph or other work and dedicating it to the public domain: CC0 Uploading a photograph or non-photographic work made, first published, or owned by an Australian government: PD-AustraliaGov An additional US public domain template is required To upload a work to Wikimedia Commons, unless it was made by an Australian government or is covered by a copyright licence it must also be accompanied by a template showing why it is in the public domain in the US.* The most relevant US templates are usually: for a work made before 1928: PD-US-expired with "|Australia" added as parameter for a work made 1928–1945: PD-1996 with "|Australia" added as parameter for a work whose author died before 1953: PD-old-70. If a work is not eligible to be in the US public domain, it may be eligible for uploading to Wikipedia (not Wikimedia Commons) under provisions for non-free use in the US. See guidelines. *The PD‑AustraliaPhoto‑1996 template is an exception: it incorporates both the Australian and US public domain status. "Author" of a photograph Since 1 May 1969, the "author" in relation to a photograph means the person who took the photograph. Before then, the author was the person who owned the material on which the photo was taken, unless the owner of the material was a body corporate, in which case it meant the photographer.

Australia

PD-AustraliaGov

Draft 3 June 2023 (15 May 2023)

Copyright-expired work by an Australian government (PD-AustraliaGov) In accordance with Australian copyright legislation, copyright in this work, which was made, first published or owned by a government of the Commonwealth of Australia or an Australian state or territory, has expired because 50 years have elapsed since the end of the year in which it was made. This template does not need a supplementary template showing why this work* is in the public domain in the United States. Why?  Click  [Expand].      Important information – please expand and read before uploading      What's the relevance of US copyright? To be published in Wikimedia Commons, unless covered by a copyright licence a work must be in the public domain in the United States in addition to its source country. Since expiry of copyright in works made by an Australian government applies worldwide, as confirmed by VTRS ticket 2017062010010417, works uploaded via this template do not require a separate declaration of US public domain status. Expired copyright in 2024 In 2024, copyright has expired if a work was made by an Australian government on or before 31 December 1973. Works made by an Australian government on or after 1 January 1974 Under the provisions of the Open Government Partnership, to which some governments in Australia subscribe, a work made, first published or owned by a government of the Commonwealth of Australia or an Australian state or territory (linked below) may be available under a Creative Commons Attribution (CC BY 4.0 International) licence.  [ * = Policy is currently incompatible with CC BY 4.0. ]   Aus     ACT *     NSW     NT *     NT Stories    Qld     SA     Tas *     Vic     WA *  Uploading copyright-expired works not made by a government Non-government photographs made before 1946:  use the PD-AustraliaPhoto-1996 template. See notes in that template for photos more recent than 30 December 1945. Non-government non-photographic works:  use the PD-Australia template. "Works" * In this template, works include (but are not limited to) government-made artistic works (including photographs and drawings), sound recordings, cinematic films, and published editions of works. Literary works include a table, or compilation, expressed in words, figures or symbols, and a computer program or compilation of computer programs. Note:  Copyright does not require a work to have creative, novel or inventive qualities. So, for example, administrative documents are categorised as literary works.

Australia

PD-AustraliaPhoto-1996

Draft 3 June 2023 (15 May 2023)

Pre-1946 Australian photograph (non-government) (PD-AustraliaPhoto-1996) This template covers expiry of copyright in both Australia and the United States for non-government photographs made before 1946; a separate template for US copyright is therefore not required. For photos made after 1 January 1946, see the "Important information" notes in the PD-Australia template. For photos made by an Australian government, the PD-AustraliaGov template should be used. Copyright in Australia In accordance with Australian copyright legislation, copyright in this photograph has expired because it was owned by an individual or an entity that was not an Australian government and the photograph was made before 1 January 1955. Copyright in the United States This Australian non-government photograph is in the public domain in the United States because it was made before 1 January 1946. Details? Click [Expand].      Important information – please expand and read before uploading      What's the relevance of Australian non-government photographs entering the US public domain? Although Australian copyright in non-government photographs expired in 1955, to be published in Wikimedia Commons they must be in the public domain in the United States. The US decided that only works that were in the public domain in their source country as of 1 January 1996 (the "URAA date") were to be in the public domain in the US by right. Expiry of copyright in Australian (non-government) photographs is therefore accepted by the US only for photographs made before 1 January 1946. Non-government photographs made between 1 January 1946 and 31 December 1954 Although copyright in an Australian photograph has expired if made by an individual or a non-government entity before 1 January 1955, a photograph made between 1 January 1946 and 31 December 1954 cannot be uploaded to Wikimedia Commons because it is not in the US domain. It may be eligible, however, for uploading to Wikipedia under provisions for non-free use in the United States. Photos made, first published, or owned by an Australian government Please use the AustraliaGov template. Non-photographic works To upload a non-photographic work made by an Australian individual or non-government entity: use the PD-Australia template. To upload a non-photographic work made by an Australian government: use the PD-AustraliaGov template. "Author" of a photograph Since 1 May 1969, the "author" in relation to a photograph means the person who took the photograph. Before then, the author was the person who owned the material on which the photo was taken, unless the owner of the material was a body corporate, in which case it meant the photographer.

Australia

Cheers, Simon – SCHolar44 🇦🇺 💬 at 13:58, 3 June 2023 (UTC)

Note, 4 June: I replaced superseded text under the heading "What's the relevance of US copyright?" in the AustraliaGov template with the correct text. SCHolar44 (talk) 04:34, 4 June 2023 (UTC)

The current template looks great with the 'hide the details' feature. I've had a proper look through them now, and the timeline graphic you added helps too. I didn't know about the 1946 rule, and I'm wondering how it affects photos that appear on some library websites with dates such as c1940s or c1950s? They are often listed as public domain, but is that enough for Commons? Jimmyjrg (talk) 02:28, 14 June 2023 (UTC)

Many thanks for taking the time to check the template out, Jimmy.

Although I knew about the 1996 URAA date's relevance as far as 1946+ images were concerned, I never thought anything more about it until Carl Lindberg recommended it as a template in its own right on account of its clarity: if it's pre-1946 it's good to go. As for dates such as "c1940s" or "c1950s", my view is that it's a matter for judgement -- sometimes there are cues in the photo, for example, and sometimes the image is in a series that includes more precisely dated ones. Otherwise, there's a 50% chance you'll be right.  ;-) Cheers, Simon – SCHolar44 🇦🇺 💬 at 23:42, 15 June 2023 (UTC)

Note, 16 June: Following Jimmy's comment I thought it would be beneficial to draw more attention to the existence of the supplementary timeline files. I have therefore placed an icon at the five places where they are mentioned in the templates above.

For anyone who wants to look at the timelines diagrams without going heavily into the detail of the text, here are the links to them (i.e. same as the "here" links in the template):

• non-government literary, dramatic or musical works, and engravings

• non-government photos and computer programs

• non-government sound recordings and broadcasts

• non-government films after 1 May 1969

• non-government works of an international organisation.

There are no government timelines diagrams because the criteria are simple.

Cheers, Simon – SCHolar44 🇦🇺 💬 at 13:36, 16 June 2023 (UTC)

Sorry there hasn't been much more discussion down here. Hopefully you've taken the silence as meaning people see no further ways to improve your work. Jimmyjrg (talk) 02:36, 14 July 2023 (UTC)

Sorry, I've never gotten back to this after your latest round. Hard to get back into the mindset sometimes :-). Anyways, government one looks fine, as does the photo one. In terms of satisfying US license lookups, you probably need to get images categorized under Category:PD-1996 somehow, such as {{PD-India-URAA}} or {{PD-old-60-1996}} does. I'm not sure you need to emphasize non-government ones on the photo tag, as any files which qualify for that tag work just fine for government or non-government. The -Gov tag mentions the statement that they say PD applies worldwide, though anything which qualifies for the Photo1996 tag would be moot on that question, since the U.S. copyright would have expired regardless of Australian government policy. The -Gov tag is still preferable since it will also apply in non-U.S. countries with longer terms.

The full one... is getting pretty big, but some of that will be unavoidable. Some points:

1. I probably would combine the "published editions" sections; the "international organization" distinction seems frivolous -- if it's a published edition it was published, which is a form of making public anyways, and otherwise the two terms seem identical.
2. The PD-Australia tag was used for government works before the -Gov tag was split off, so there may be some of those uploads still out there using this tag, so it may still be good to mention (with a pointer to the other tag). The current PD-Australia tag still lists government works; the new one probably should too, but with a pointer to the Gov tag.
3. While the new PD-Australia main tag now gives the 70pma terms correctly, I see nothing about anonymous works, which is hugely important. Those are mentioned in the current tag, and need to be prominent in this one. They may fit into one of the categories you already have; can't quite remember. Carl Lindberg (talk) 17:51, 6 August 2023 (UTC)