Template talk:Unknown

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add parameters ?[edit]

Thousands of files from the Tropenmuseum have "niet bekend / unknown (Fotograaf/photographer)" in the author field. I suppose a bot could replace it by a multinlingual template. But I'm wondering: should an {{Unknown photographer}} be created, or should a parameter be added here so that for instance we can type {{unknown|photographer}} and get "unknown photographer" ?--Zolo (talk) 08:15, 4 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

If the media is a foto, it is self-evident that the photographer is unknown. So I think no further differentiation is needed. If there are no other objection I will change "niet bekend / unknown (Fotograaf/photographer)" to {{Unknown}}. --Schlurcher (talk) 09:08, 4 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Not an objection but a request: Please change it to {{Unknown|author}}. See here (just two days ago ;-) ). It won't make any difference for most languages, but it can add more semantical context in case some languages need this semantical context to render the word with correct grammar. --Slomox (talk) 09:17, 4 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Sorry I dont think it is a good idea to add parameters to templates that do not support it. --Schlurcher (talk) 09:32, 4 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
I put it in the documentation. Now it is supported. --Slomox (talk) 10:09, 4 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Not the best solution, but ok. --Schlurcher (talk) 10:17, 4 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

It says "This template can be used in the 'source' or 'author' parameters..." There's no reason the uploader should not know the source, right? Or is this talking about something else I'm not thinking of? Maybe that bit should be removed so it's not used for missing sources. Rocket000 (talk) 16:43, 4 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

That's right. Perhaps we should run a bot, replace all instances of "|XXX={{unknown}}" with "|XXX={{unknown|XXX}}". Then we put some maintenance categories in the template so we can see which pages use "{{unknown|source}}". And then we can fix the pages, delete them for deletion if necessary or we'll know the cases where unknown sources are okay. --Slomox (talk) 16:49, 4 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
That sounds like instruction creep. "unknown" is enough and pages can be individually checked if they look suspicious. Hekerui (talk) 16:53, 4 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Have you read the original discussion? in languages with complex grammar rules it could be the case that the word corresponding to 'unknown' must use different endings when applied to immaterial object like a date than when applied to a human being like an author. --Slomox (talk) 17:07, 4 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
That's true for German too as you know and yet it's easily correct as long as one doesn't form a sentence, and a single word should be enough for other other languages in the same manner. Hekerui (talk) 17:16, 4 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
It works for 'en' and it works for 'de'. But there are 6000 to 7000 other languages. There will be cases where even a single word takes different suffixes for case like 'human', 'animate object', 'inanimate object', 'abstract concept' etc. --Slomox (talk) 17:51, 4 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
I don't see the problem if we plan ahead. We might not ever need it but with all the languages out there with "strange" grammar rules, it's definitely probable. So better safe than sorry; it will save a lot of work in the future. It's good habit to be semantically correct, even if the displayed result is the same for multiple contexts. Plus, it can allow us to do other things if we want, like add a category based on the parameter. Bots are the ones that will mostly be doing this extra work. You can still use {{unknown}} by itself if you think adding a single parameter is too much. Rocket000 (talk) 18:11, 4 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
If you leave the source field blank there's already a missing source message. I don't think there's any reason to use {{unknown|source}}. In what case would the uploader not know where they got it from? Unless there's something I'm not thinking of, bots can probably just remove it completely from the source field. Rocket000 (talk) 17:14, 4 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Actually, no. Slomox's idea is better. Rocket000 (talk) 17:15, 4 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

There will be cases where even a single word takes different suffixes for case like 'human', 'animate object', 'inanimate object', 'abstract concept': indeed {{unknown|date}} should be rendered in French as "inconnue" not "inconnnu". But since the current template does not take any parameter I don't know if it is worth changing it.--Zolo (talk) 09:00, 6 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Some useless stats[edit]

  • "unknown" or "{{unknown}}" in the author & artist fields → 30,113 hits
  • "unknown" or "{{unknown}}" in the date field → 20,373 hits
  • "unknown" or "{{unknown}}" in the source field → 1464 hits
  • "unknown" or "{{unknown}}" in the location field → 233 hits
  • "unknown" or "{{unknown}}" in the year field → 136 hits

-Rocket000 (talk) 20:17, 4 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Which template are the 136 year fields from? --Slomox (talk) 20:41, 4 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
{{Painting}} (same for artist field and location, the rest are both in {{information}} and {{painting}}). Rocket000 (talk) 20:51, 4 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Ah, I see. 'year' is a deprecated synonym for 'date'. --Slomox (talk) 21:12, 4 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

ru[edit]

{{Edit request}} Please change |ru=неизвестный to |ru=неизвестен, it is more correct in Russian for use in source and author fields in template {{Information}}. Sorry for bad English. --Art-top (talk) 09:08, 8 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Please change |ru=неизвестен to |ru={{#switch:{{NAMESPACE}}|{{ns:6}}=неизвестен|#default=неизвестно}}. Russian language is the genitive, and when used within "Creator:" templates is better to use another option (unfortunately, only for cases where the "creator:" template used on category pages , or it is included in the gallery page, main namespace). This is a palliative, of course. --Kaganer (talk) 13:50, 5 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I ma not sure this is a good idea. For example creator templates are used in Creator, Category and File namespaces. Why would grammar change depending on where it is used? Could you provide examples of scenarios deference forms are needed? May be switch related to first parameter ('author' or 'location') would be more useful. --Jarekt (talk) 03:57, 7 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, using switch related to 'author' or 'location' parameters - is good idea. How do it? --Kaganer (talk) 21:20, 24 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Simple, For polish version we have "|pl={{#switch:{{{1|}}}|place=nieznane|#default=nieznany}}". Russian can be done similarly, may be "|ru={{#switch:{{{1|}}}|place=неизвестно|#default=неизвестен}}"?. Then when you add a template use {{unknown|author}}, {{unknown|place}} or {{unknown|date}} form (date redirects to {{other date|unknown}}). --Jarekt (talk) 04:00, 25 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Ok, but "place" do not have among the allowed values, and the documentation is only a "location". What should I use? --Kaganer (talk) 15:53, 25 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Opps, you are correct. I changed polish version to "|pl={{#switch:{{{1|}}}|location=nieznane|author=nieznany|#default=nieznany}}". --Jarekt (talk) 18:50, 25 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Heh ;) Maybe need check template using for incorrect values? --Kaganer (talk) 19:48, 25 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

My final proposal: 

|ru={{#switch:{{{1|}}}|location=неизвестно|author=неизвестен|#default=неизвестен}}

--Kaganer (talk) 19:48, 25 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

✓ Done --Jarekt (talk) 03:38, 31 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Malayalam[edit]

{{Editprotected}} Please add: 

|ml=ലഭ്യമല്ല

Thank you--Praveen:talk 04:33, 19 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

✓ Done --Martin H. (talk) 23:59, 19 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

fix French grammar[edit]

Since Polish takes a parameter, please change French to: |fr={{#switch:{{{1|}}}|date=inconnue|#default=inconnu}} --Zolo (talk) 16:03, 25 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

{{Unknown|date}} redirects to Unknown date
Unknown date
. Polish & Russian versions are trying differentiate between location and author. So at the moment no changes were made. --Jarekt (talk) 18:42, 25 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Oops sorry my mistake--Zolo (talk) 19:37, 25 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Template broken[edit]

{{Edit protected}} Please add "}}" after {{#if:{{{1|}}}|[[Category:Template:Unknown with {{{1}}}]]--Zolo (talk) 19:37, 25 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

There is no use in categorizing a template by the parameter it uses. Or? Remove {{#if:{{{1|}}}|[[Category:Template:Unknown with {{{1}}}]]. --Martin H. (talk) 19:56, 25 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Fixed. I will remove the category in a day or two after counting the options used. --Jarekt (talk) 03:31, 26 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
still broken; displays some "{{#if:|"--Praveen:talk 05:43, 26 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
I have removed the if function, without seeing above discussion, after not hearing from Jarekt for a day. odder (talk) 08:38, 27 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Sorry about it but much of my part of country lost power yesterday due to snow. --Jarekt (talk) 15:09, 27 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

eo[edit]

{{editprotected}} Please add this line: 

|eo=nekonata

. --Petrus Adamus (talk) 14:26, 8 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

✓ Done -- Common Good (talk) 18:18, 10 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

el[edit]

{{editprotected}} Please add: 

|el=άγνωστος

.

--Geraki TLG 06:29, 22 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

✓ Done --Jarekt (talk) 12:22, 22 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

sl[edit]

{{Editprotected}}

Please add this line: 

|sl={{#switch:{{lc:{{{1|}}}}}|place|location=neznana|artist|author=neznan|#default=neznano}}

. --Sporti (talk) 09:18, 22 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

✓ Done --Jarekt (talk) 12:51, 22 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Please, replaced #default with 'neznan', because it makes more sense. --Eleassar (t/p) 12:55, 12 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]
✓ Done--Jarekt (talk) 15:46, 12 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]

fa[edit]

{{Editprotected}} Please add: 

|fa=نامعلوم

--Z 20:06, 10 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]

✓ Done--Zolo (talk) 08:07, 11 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]

be/be-tarask/be-x-old[edit]

{{editprotected}} Please add 'невядомы' for the subj. locales. Thank you! Wizardist (talk) 21:32, 29 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Perhaps, default language behaviour should be added as well (default=unknown). Wizardist (talk) 21:34, 29 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

✓ Done (I believe when your language is not listed, the standard default behavior applies, using the fallback locales, or, ultimately, English, see e.g. with uselang=ab.) --Mormegil (talk) 15:40, 21 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]


{{Editprotected}} Please split the line for be/be-tarask/be-x-old (the latter one could be removed at all) into separate lines. Doesn't work the way it is now since it's not #switch. --Base (talk) 20:59, 24 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]

✓ Done --Jarekt (talk) 21:13, 24 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]

uk[edit]

Please add: 

|uk=невідомий

--Сергій (обг.) 09:41, 9 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

✓ Done --:bdk: 19:35, 8 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

{{Editprotected}} Please, change for 

|uk={{#switch: {{lc:{{{1|}}}}}
 |place|location|source=невідоме
 |artist|author=невідомий
 |#default=невідомий
 }}

-- Ата (talk) 08:09, 24 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]

✓ Done —RP88 (talk) 10:40, 24 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]

tg[edit]

{{Editprotected}} Please add: 

|tg=номаълум

--Z 17:00, 3 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

✓ Done --:bdk: 19:33, 8 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

ko translation[edit]

{{Sudo}} Please add 

|ko=미상

Thanks. --레비ReviD✉CM 08:57, 22 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

✓ Done--Jarekt (talk) 19:04, 22 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

bn[edit]

{{Sudo}} Please add 

|bn=অজানা

Thanks.--Aftab1995 (talk) 17:46, 15 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]

✓ Done--Jarekt (talk) 18:14, 15 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]

vi[edit]

{{Sudo}}

Please add a case for Vietnamese to this template: 

|vi=Không rõ

Thank you!

 – Minh Nguyễn (talk, contribs) 09:10, 8 September 2014 (UTC)[reply]

✓ Done thanks --Jarekt (talk) 11:34, 8 September 2014 (UTC)[reply]

tr[edit]

{{Sudo}}

Please add: 

|tr=Bilinmiyor

Thanks. --Cobija (talk) 18:05, 1 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

✓ Done ( to get admin attention you should use {{editprotected}} and when I am done I change it to {{tl|editprotected}}, or you can alert them by the talk page as you did). --Jarekt (talk) 02:38, 4 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

sv[edit]

{{Edit protected}} Please correct:

|sv={{#switch: {{lc:{{{1|}}}}} |date|year=Okänt |#default=Okänd }} Stefan4 (talk) 23:05, 25 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

✓ Done --Didym (talk) 23:29, 25 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

hsb[edit]

{{Editprotected}}

Please add: |hsb={{#switch:{{lc:{{{1|}}}}}|place|location=njeznata|artist|author=neznaty|#default=njeznate}}

Thanks, j.budissin+/- 13:43, 17 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

✓ Done --Jarekt (talk) 15:00, 17 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Sorry, User:Jarekt, there was a mistake inside. It has to be "author=njeznaty". Could you please fix it? Thanks a lot, j.budissin+/- 15:53, 18 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Fixed --Jarekt (talk) 01:45, 19 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

it[edit]

{{Edit request}} Could you please modify the template in order that it will show Italian feminine form "sconosciuta" instead of default "sconosciuto" when used in the fields "source" (fonte), "location" (ubicazione), "date" (data) in template:Information? Thanks in advance--Carnby (talk) 21:50, 14 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

✓ Done --Jarekt (talk) 16:34, 27 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Uppercase?[edit]

Why is it in uppercase (in En and De), is this really needed (its not a headline)? So we can't used only as first word for a sentence!? I suggest to made it lowercase to be used also in text (inline). ↔ User: Perhelion (Commons: = crap?)  09:31, 22 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]

  • This template is meant to be used in the information template if the source, author or date is unknown, where a capital letter is preferred. You can't use it in the middle of the text as the translation probably is wrong in a lot of languages. --Stefan2 (talk) 21:00, 22 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]

eu[edit]

{{Edit request}}

Please add: 

|eu=Ezezaguna

Thanks. --Xabier Armendaritz (talk) 08:05, 11 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]

✓ Done --Jarekt (talk) 12:34, 11 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Polish translations should be fixed[edit]

{{Edit request}} Location is usually translated into Polish as "lokalizacja" or "pozycja" which are feminine (they end with -a). Just please insert the following code into the proper place: 

|pl={{#switch: {{lc:{{{1|}}}}}
 |place|source=nieznane
 |location=nieznana
 |#default=nieznany
 }}

--jdx Re: 15:01, 19 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

✓ Zrobione --Jarekt (talk) 19:29, 19 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Unknown photographer[edit]

Would it be possible to make {{Unknown|photographer}} call {{Unknown photographer}}? /ℇsquilo 13:19, 21 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

my[edit]

{{Editprotected}} Please add Burmese translation:

|my = မသိရှိရ

Thanks. Ninja✮Strikers «☎» 04:57, 5 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

✓ Done —RP88 (talk) 05:00, 5 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

zh-hant, zh-hans, zh-tw, zh-hk, zh-sg, zh-cn[edit]

{{Edit request}}

These zh-XX should be 未知. Please add these. This is Taiwania Justo speaking (Reception Room) 01:03, 12 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

✓ Done I changed the incorrect "|zh=未知" assignment to be "|zh-hant=未知" and "|zh-hans=未知". The other languages you mentioned should already be "falling back" to either "zh-hant" or "zh-hans" if a more specific value is not specified. —RP88 (talk) 02:20, 12 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

unknown illustrator[edit]

What do we do when the author of a work is known, but the illustrator is not known? I can find neither a parameter for nor a designated template. --

template:artwork has both author and illustrator fields; use both and fill the illustrator one with {{unknown|author}}, as it will linguistically be the same. Arlo James Barnes 00:04, 29 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Malfunction[edit]

Hello! The template does not work since yesterday. Please have a look to Category:Template Unknown (artist) or just try {{unknown|artist}}. @Verdy p: ? I found the red link at File:Dülmen, Dernekamp, Doppelbildstock -- 2020 -- 7014.jpg. I don't like red links. ;-) BTW: In German it's "Künstler/-in unbekannt", not "Artist unbekannt". --XRay talk 06:58, 18 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

This is not malfunctioning, but working as it was intended initially: the code should have generated that category, but was incorrectly matched by duplicate cases in the switch, another case being taken first.
On your example page, there's effectively an unknown artist, so the page is categorized. However that category was still not created (and because it was still not used for the bug I fixed yesterday, it was still not visible). The fix is just to create the missing tracking category. verdy_p (talk) 10:12, 18 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Now I did not choose these names of the two categories (Category:Template Unknown (artist), Category:Template Unknown (author)), they were already there in the code (but as the code was nbot working, there was no tracking at all for pages with unknown artists/authors using this template; the tracking is now working as intended). These tracker categories may have better names. verdy_p (talk) 10:33, 18 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I don't follow. Version prior to your changes can be seen here. This version added tracking category only for parameter value "author" and that's how it was intended to work. It seems unclear if it was needed to add other tracking categories now. Pikne 14:29, 19 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
And I've kept the distinction, keeping "author" separated from "artist". Tracking "artist" is also useful (not used much but still used, tracking unknown authors however reveal a lot of files, so this indicates that we need splitting them: at least the artists can be already separated because it is generally not related to licencing conditions, however unknown authors cause licencing problems, like unknown sources which are already separated). There are also other unkown types whcih are tracked: places, countries, dates/years (within their respective related template, e.g. for "other dates"). Sorting what kind of information is unknown or missing is helpful. verdy_p (talk) 14:42, 19 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Verdy p, why did you change Estonian (et) translation like this? New translation "Tundmatu" rather means 'unrecognized' or 'strange' (i.e. the subject may be know, but we don't know much about it). Old translaion "Teadmata" is more straightforward translation of "unknown". I think it should be restored. I'm also suspicious about changes to other languages, someone should probably check these, too.

Also, it doesn't seem like a good idea to display parameter values always and request their translation. In information template words "source" and "author" are unnecessary repeated now (and also untranslated for most languages). It may be better to revert all recent changes as motivation behind them is unclear, and they may do more harm than good. Pikne 14:29, 19 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I don't see duplicates, but there are frequent cases were "source" and "author" mean different thing (as well "author" is one alternative, I've found cases were there are distinctions with "artist". On this wiki at least we differantiate authors and institutions (most often used as sources) in their own namespace
For the Estonian trasnlation, it was unified from other locations, but feel free to change as needed (in fact in msot cases I left terms untranslated in templates, within italics and within parentheses if still not translated when they were used as disambiguation, the parentheses can be removed with a normal translation). verdy_p (talk) 14:34, 19 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I mean, information template has author field and source field, which is where "unknown" template is used mostly. E.g. here both "source" and "author" are now repeated in row header and in next cell. If this is needed in some languages for better wording, then translations may be adjusted for these particular languages, as it was already done, without touching other languages.
I would restore Estonian translation, but I don't have necessary rights. Also, I'd still advise not displaying untranslated parameter values (i.e. the way it was until recently). I don't quite understand why was it needed to display these. If it's useful to "disambiguate" certain parameter values by means of having separate tracking categories for other values than "author", too, then this can be done without displaying parameter values in original text and in translations. Pikne 15:03, 19 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

bg[edit]

The word невядома in Bulgarian doesn't exist. Instead of невядома, it must be Неизвестен. Thank you! --Spasimir (talk) 08:13, 21 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

It was "Неизвестен" until recently but, as with Estonian translation (see above), non-native speaker for an unknown reason messed it up. Recent changes by Verdy are unwanted or dubious. I suggest reverting it all. Pikne 06:43, 22 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I second revert of Verdy's edits. Especially because usage of {{LangSwitch/sandbox}} was introduced. —⁠andrybak (talk) 15:43, 22 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

{{Edit protected}} Bulgarian translation seems to be restored by now. I ask Estonian (et) translation "Teadmata" to be restored too for the reason given above. Pikne 08:39, 12 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

✓ Done
  • {{unknown|lang=bg}} gives Неизвестен
  • {{unknown|lang=et}} gives Teadmata
--Jarekt (talk) 17:52, 12 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
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