Category talk:Nudity

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This discussion of one or several categories is now closed. Please do not make any edits to this archive.

Category:Nudity or partial nudity[edit]

This category is undefined. There is no common understanding of "partial nudity". I started a discussion at the Village Pump to try and determine consensus about what it meant, but it got nowhere. Lacking even the most basic definitiion, there is no point in maintaining this category. This would logically include all the "nude or partially nude" subcategories, of which there are many. Perhaps splitting those categories into "bottomless" and "topless" categories (as someone suggested) makes the most sense. World's Lamest Critic (talk) 22:22, 12 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]

  • The problem might be that "partial nudity" isn't well defined. We can talk about toplessness or bottomlessness, but to some cultures exposing the legs or arms can be an issue as well. Also, any category named "Foo1 or foo2" that has foo1 and foo2 as separate categories under it needs to be rethought. Maybe this category and any with "nude or partially nude" in the name need to be rethought and/or renamed: perhaps "states of undress"?
Besides that, there are a couple of subcategories here that I don't think belong: intergluteal cleft (which can be seen without the person being nude) and undressing (which can be at a state where the person is not yet nude). --Auntof6 (talk) 20:57, 14 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • @TwoWings: I moved some images out of the "nude or partially nude" categories because I thought it was obvious that they didn't depict nude or partially nude people. Apparently some people feel that a woman wearing a bikini or a bra and panties is "partially nude" and my changes were reverted. That's what started this whole discussion. The "topless" and "bottomless" categories would be for images that are considered "partial nudity". Nude images would be by themselves. Each existing categories would be expanded into as many as three categories (if needed). Women wearing bikinis would be in none of them, since they are not nude, topless, or bottomless. World's Lamest Critic (talk) 02:28, 15 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Read over the discussion from the Village Pump again. There is no consensus about what "partially nude" means. As for the definition you suggest, I agree with it, but other editors have different ideas. So this category (and all subcategories) are ambiguous and images get added or removed depending on how individual editors interpret "partially nude". That is a problem, even if the categories have been around a long time. World's Lamest Critic (talk) 22:48, 15 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]
 Split into Category:Nudity and Category:Partial nudity. Proper definition of 'partial nudity' can be developed and if warranted, the category can be renamed to match. Josh (talk) 21:27, 20 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]
If there was consensus on what "partially nude" meant, we wouldn't need to have this discussion. Having a separate Category:Partial nudity doesn't solve that problem. I believe "bottomless" and "topless" are much more likely to be interpreted correctly. World's Lamest Critic (talk) 04:02, 21 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Even if perfectly defined, the categories should be split. One is either nude or partially nude, there is no value to an 'or' category that arbitrarily clumps them together. If you want to further break it down into bottomless and topless, more power to you. But the 'or' should go. Josh (talk) 23:08, 26 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Let's add yet another example: Nude or partially nude women urinating. What is this? As I understand it, people almost always remove some clothing when urinating (except, say, when they use a urine bag - but if they did this fully clothed, how would we see it?). How much clothing do they have to remove before being considered "partially nude"? And why is there no Nude or partially nude men urinating? Brianjd (talk) 12:12, 23 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Just when I thought I had seen everything...Barefoot is in Partial nudity! So apparently everything is partial nudity, unless you can't see the person at all? At least Faces is not in that category, although I suppose even that might depend on which religion you follow... Brianjd (talk) 14:58, 23 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • It seems we are discussing two different issues here:
    • 1) What is the definition of 'partial nudity' and what belongs or doesn't in such a category (if such a category should even exits, that is). This one seems the more contentious one as there seems a divergence between the social concept of nudity (basically exposure of skin not normal and/or acceptable to be exposed) versus the technical concept which would include any exposed skin whatsoever. Since the social concept will differ across different cultures and situations, it is not appropriate for Commons to enforce a given social standard of nudity as that will necessarily be implicitly biased, and thus go against Commons policy. It is questionable if using the technical concept would offer any value, but it would not be a policy violation. I would suggest that perhaps the general concept of partial nudity can be done away with, but instead specific categories for each 'part' that is exposed can be set up (nude legs, nude genitals, nude shoulders, whatever is supported by the existing files on Commons).
    • 2) How to structure 'partial nudity' vs. 'nudity' or 'full nudity'. Clearly the current category "Nudity or partial nudity" has to change, as it is a clear violation of both the Simplicity Principle (it combines too many criteria into one) and the Selectivity Principle (it puts more than one topic in the same category). There are two (possibly three) distinct topics here, and they need to be arranged per the Hierarchic Principle. They are the general topic of nudity, the topic of partial nudity, and perhaps the topic of full nudity. Since all are encompassed within general nudity, Category:Nudity should be the main category with the others as children.
  • Thus, I propose that we take step one to immediately fix the policy violations and structure the categories as follows and that the more nuanced discussion over defining partial nudity can carry on its own within the scope of its own branch.
    • Category:Nudity (main category for all nudity-related content)
      • Category:Partial nudity (sub-category for the concept of partial nudity; what this contains or doesn't and whether it is retained or renamed or split into something new can be its own discussion)
      • Category:Full nudity (can be created if desired and discussed in its own right, but if it exists, it should be a sub-cat of Category:Nudity)
  • The above change will bring this category into compliance with existing policy and create a framework that the discussion regarding partial nudity (and whatever resolutions arrived at) can be better undertaken within. Josh (talk) 07:33, 14 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  •  Comment The above proposal is strictly for the topic of nudity itself. The related topic of Nude or partially nude people is its own ball of wax and deserves its own discussion. Nothing in this proposal should be presumed to apply to Nude or partially nude people, though of course some of the discussion may be relevant to that chat when it happens. Josh (talk) 20:30, 26 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
@World's Lamest Critic, Brianjd, Dronebogus, and TwoWings: Can we go ahead and wrap up this one, or does anyone have more to bring to table about this? Josh (talk) 20:30, 26 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
What if anything is the consensus? Dronebogus (talk) 23:44, 26 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
i think the suggestion of separating into "bottomless .." and "topless .." is the best solution.
take File:Swimmer at Cascais in Portugal.jpg as an example. revealing the nipples is considered nude in many cultures, while not revealing the pubic areas can be considered "not fully nude", so depending on the user, this photo can be either nude or partially nude.
on the other hand, File:Green Deep V-neck Backless Halter Dress - Backside.jpg halternecks revealing the back can also be considered a form of nudity in some cultures, so is this photo "nude", "partially nude" or "clothed"? it only depends on every user's own perspective.
after separation into "bottomless", "topless", "barefoot" etc., they can all be put into "partial nudity".
(full) nudity is easily defined. it's when a person is unclothed around both their chest and pubic area. even if they are wearing shoes or stockings, that's still (full) nudity. RZuo (talk) 08:15, 20 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
after this, then "Nude or partially nude people with lions" can become "nude people with lions" with two subcats "fully nude people with lions" and "partially nude people with lions". "nude xx" will become the overall parent cat for all forms of nudity. RZuo (talk) 08:18, 20 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
This category discussion has been closed.
Consensus Resolved by consensus
ActionsNudity as main topic with subdivision by different types of nudity (topless, bottomless, barefoot, etc.) as subcategories
Participants
Closed by Josh (talk) 18:39, 1 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Tidying[edit]

I have made an attempt at tidying the category and subcategories. Doing the obvious with some images and pruning inappropriate cats from others. I have changed the cat tree- to group together the various naked bike rides. Another editor may like to have a further go, as some images appear in both child and parent categories. ClemRutter 22:37, 28 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]


Commons:Nudity explains Commons policy on Nudity and how to request a deletion. In response to an anonymous ip-edit. --ClemRutter (talk) 14:02, 17 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Warm Ghost[edit]

Are so many Warm Ghost photos relevant ? Are they relevant in the category Nudity ? --Wildone.dk (talk) 09:20, 8 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]

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