User talk:Verdy p/archive1

Pic of the Day[edit]

Hi. I translate captions for Pic of the Day from time to time but now I'm in a bit of a trouble about this template: Template:Potd/2007-01. I've created a lacking Polish caption Template:Potd/2007-01-02 (pl), "What links here" shows it is linked to the main template but I can't see its contents anywhere on the main January page with the other existing translations. Maybe you can help me sort it out, as the author of the January template page. Regards, Maire 03:59, 10 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Hello, i have a similar problem with Template:Potd/2007-02-03 (de). It is not appearing on the Febuary 2007 page. I have the feeling it has sth to do with the number of digits you use for the day. But i am not sure. --AngMoKio 13:33, 10 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

The day numbering did not use a leading 0 between the 1st and the 9th of the month until january 2007 where this extra digit was introduced, breaking the current rule. isuppose this was an error, because I can't see any decision. If a leading 0 must be there, then all the history up to december 2006 would have to be renamed (lots of templates to rename!).

So until this change is discussed, I think this was an edit error when Bastique created the new months for january and february 2007 and this should be reverted before there are too many templates to rename (note that the TOC at the top of the page does not work as the links don't include the 0).

If day numbering must change later, this should be done coherently for the history... Currently january and february 2007 will break templates everywhere !Verdy p 15:26, 18 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I changed it for consistency, as the months were using two digits, whereas the days were not. It is a very simple change in the templates--change {{CURRENTDAY}} to {{CURRENTDAY2}} and there will be no need to revert things going forward. Very simple change, and maintains consistency. Cary "Bastiq▼e" Bass ^demandez 15:34, 18 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

By the way, the reason that the items were not appearing had nothing to do with the digits. It was a cache and purge issue, undoubtedly. The items are appearing now.Cary "Bastiq▼e" Bass ^demandez 15:42, 18 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I believe I fixed the templates to link to {{CURRENTDAY2}}, so there should be no broken images relating to this change. There was no error. Cary "Bastiq▼e" Bass ^demandez 15:49, 18 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Yes thisbreaksinJanuary at least, and it isa major reason why there are so few available translations: all user sandboxes used to edit the months ineachlanguage are broken (and unfortunately there's no other way to add translations correctly, given that the "add language" link is now broken). For january at least, we need synonyms.

Such change should have been done coherently by applying the newnaming policy to ALL past articles (meaning: ask for the help of a bot to rename the history), and makesure that Potd/months calendar templates are updated with the new naming for days. We need time to change the user sandboxes, given that it is now impossible to translate the descriptions without them, and lots of user calendars need fixing. Verdy p 15:58, 18 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

This also applies to bots that import POTD in the various wikis. Verdy p 15:58, 18 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

First off, your should NOT have moved all of these tempaltes. Your assertions were incorrect in that the various language templates were broken because of the move.

Secondly, I did all the work necessary to fix the issues regarding the date change.

Thirdly, the use of single digis for dates while using double digits for months is wrong.

Fourthly, pleasse identify each and every bot that imports these into the various wikis. I am only familiar with fr.wikipedia's import, which can easily be adjusted. I am moving all of these back.

Thank you. Cary "Bastiq▼e" Bass ^demandez 19:50, 21 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I have not made any false assumptions. This is just transitional for compatiblity that synonyms were created.

What you have changed was discussed absolutely nowhere, and that's why people were wondering why their bots did not work, or why their translation sandboxes were no more working.

Your change (among others) has caused troubles, especially because it was not documented in time. Now we are at a few days from january and it's probably to late for January to get stable. Anyway we must continue without it and help translators getting back to Commons.

I have fixed lots of area where these were broken, that's why they were not moved but renamed to create synonyms for January only. The new naming is still usable. There are many more languages than just English and French. And in fact, there are other problems caused by the impossibility to translate the image captions for most users; that's where I have worked a lot to fix that for most languages. Some other changes (unrelated to the changeofday number format) were even more problematic, causing POTD to be partly translated,or the translationnot being effectively accessible due to naming problems (and sometimes naming conflits).

I have not touched other months after january; the synonyms were necessary, just for the transition period, to make sure that all works, as there may remain corrections to apply.

Since my corrections, translators are coming back, and get access to the appropriate place, and there's no more need to use a personnal sandbox. For translators, this is mostly a "click-and-type" job directly from the page, as it was before the changes.

Verdy p 20:12, 21 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

In looking at your contributions it seems that you have spent hours creating a very bad and unmanageable situation which I unfortunately have no time to undo. You should not have taken this action upon yourself without any discussion or concensus. Your comments throughout the process have been remarkably condescending and have entirely destroyed any goodwill I could possibly have for your efforts. I will spend some time reverting your changes.

Furthermore: Please stop placing blame on every Mediawiki issue regarding image display on my use of two digits in place of one for POTD. It is unsubstantiated and entirely untrue. Cary "Bastiq▼e" Bass ^demandez 19:55, 21 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

This is fully manageable. And I'd like to know where,beside thispage, I have put such comments or blaming about MediaWiki. That's not the truth! Verdy p 20:12, 21 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

And stop bolds. I am not shouting on your page. Verdy p 20:13, 21 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I'm a little perterbed by all this. First off, I haven't been able to understand your English very well. Sorry, but if you have an en-4 ability, it's not coming out very clearly.

I have gone to great lengths to fix the problem with single digit days on POTD. Single digit days do not alphebetize correctly and it is ugly. This is why I fixed things for Janary and going forward. Now I see that you have created a huge problem with the change that I made, without discussion or even asking why I bothered to make that change in the first place.

Note, I have had thousands of contributions on Commons...this is my home wiki. I don't just "do things" carelessly or half-assed. You've only recently become active here (I've never seen you until recently.)

I've reverted the page moves you made, but it will take hours...days to fix every link on every POTD page that you have now created, when it would have been simpler for you to merely ask.

I urge you to help with this. Cary "Bastiq▼e" Bass ^demandez 20:18, 21 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

No, you're wrong, I have not changed any links! Day numbering is still 2 digits, even now on all pages starting in January! You may not have understood something. There were much less days renamed to synonyms than other places that were fixed. I have found absolutely no place where your changes were discussed; and even if you think your work was complete, it was not (and others have made other changes that were detrimental too and unfinished, causing problems to everyone, especially for languages which are not in the top-4.) Verdy p 20:25, 21 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Well, let us have the two digits dates. No, there was no discussion prior to this. I was the only one working on it at all at the time. Nobody else wanted to be involved except for the occasional self-promoting photographer wanting to put his non-Quality picture non-Featured image on the POTD list that I would have to remove.

Obviously you've spent a lot of time on this, so you may go a long way in helping resolve the situation. I was upset when I discovered all the Template moves that you had made. I don't understand what you mean by "synonym". It's not the same as in English for whatever your discussing, thus increasing the confusion. Cary "Bastiq▼e" Bass ^demandez 20:32, 21 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

synonyms are two linksgoing to the same place. Nothing else. I have not changed that; this was just an emergency measure, before January comes. There are still other things to change but the very few places where 1 digit was still needed are minor face to the other unrelated edits, which have been discussed since months.

I am contributing since long to Commons,though that's not my primary place (that's why I was not always logged on for most of my minor edits). I have not complained about any MediaWiki bug regarding the 1/2day digit day numbering. There was only a problem in the way MediaWiki handles some image captions, this was immediately accepted and corrected in hours n the software but it was really not related to your change.

You are complaining that I should have discussed, but your ownchange was completely undiscussed everywhere. (My changes where discussed months ago when there was the discussion about Potd/new, and I have updated the document there). You made it "for coherence" but this was not necessary because the day numbering did not cause any problem before. Your change needing CURRENTDAY2 instead of CURRENTDAY is now causing inconsistencies in the history, and this requires some complex code to test the format used before january 2007: that's something I have fixed in Template:Potd/Month; but I won't ask for a bot to rename all the history. There are too many places to change, and there's no emergency to change this now. I have restored the functionality of histories (including for the current month of December! Where only 1-digit days are used). Verdy p 20:47, 21 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Bandeaux de licence en anglais[edit]

Bonjour Verdy, Sur Commons, les bandeaux de licence sont en anglais, même si les licences elles-mêmes sont dans d'autres langues. Il y a en effet des licences en chinois, en suédois ou en français, et il faut en effet donner le lien vers la licence dans la bonne langue; par contre les bandeaux doivent être en anglais par défaut pour être compréhensibles par la majorité, et bien sûr traduits dans un maximum de langues. Merci de te conformer aux usages de Commons sans imposer ta façon de faire. Et par pitié, pas de messages de 3 km de long comme réponses :-) le Korrigan →bla 13:16, 23 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Et pourtant CeCiLL n'est légale qu'en français (en v1), et n'a aucune valeur en anglais. Le problème est que l'avertissement indique de ne pas utiliser la seule langue qui ait une valeur authentique, et quele bandeau anglais est plus ambigu que le bandeau français car il ne mentionne pas la version (au contraire de la version française qui était l'original et qui était liée depuis le début à la version 2)!

Bref l'avertissement imposé est FAUX. Le français n'est PAS une traduction du bandeau anglais, c'est justement le contraire! Et c'est le bandeau anglais qui a été mal traduit en ne mentionnant pas la version exacte dans le lien! Verdy p 13:33, 23 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

juste pour info, le site CeCILL c'est plusieurs licences distinctes:

CeCILL : authentique uniquement en Français, compatible GPL
CeCILL v2 : authentique en Français ou en Anglais, compatible GPL
CeCILL-B : authentique en Français ou en Anglais, compatible BSD
CeCILL-C : authentique en Français ou en Anglais, compatible LGPL

Mentionner l'adresse dusite sans préciser exactement la licence dans le bandeau Anglais est une énorme erreur! Bref seul le bandeau français authentique est correct! Preuve encore que l'anglais est une traduction (mal faite) au contraire de ce que prétend l'avertissement ajouté! Verdy p 13:38, 23 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

J'étais assuré de ce genre de réaction: sous prétexte d'"uniformiser" les messages, on remplace des licences exactes par des messages faibles qui n'ont aucune valeur de licence, au mépris des droits élémentaires des auteurs qui ont désigné expressément une licence préciseet non un paquet de licence! Vous avez légalement tord de remplacer des licences correctes CeCILL/fr par un bandeau flou CeCILL en Anglais.

D'autre part quand je suisintervenuc'est parce que certains bandeaux d'autres traductions contenaient des messages farfelus et non une indication de licence. Et j'ai bien vu que le bandeau français original avait été mal traduit en anglais puis affublé de l'avertissement tout aussi farfelu (et en fait illégal) que pouvaient l'être les autres bandeaux. Je regrette sincèrement que vous ne compreniez pas le problème légal que cela comporte!

Pour cette raison le bandeau anglais (créé en 2004 avant que la v2 existe) doit être corrigé! Verdy p 13:46, 23 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Note: remplacer une mention de propriété intellectuelle par une autre complètement différente (tous les mots sont changés!) est illégal selon les termes de la licence (article 6.5) qui mentionne explicitement:

Le Licencié s'engage expressément: 1.à ne pas supprimer ou modifier de quelque manière que ce soit les mentions de propriété intellectuelle apposées sur le Logiciel; 2.à reproduire à l'identique lesdites mentions de propriété intellectuelle sur les copies du Logiciel modifié ou non.

Bref je suis sûr d'avoir raison! Les avertissements demandant de remplacer CeCILL/fr par CECILL uniquement en anglais sont illégaux, de même le fait d'avoir abusivement modifié des centaines de fichiers sur Commons pour remplacer CeCILL/fr par CeCILL! (notamment tous ceux parus en 2004); Verdy p 14:09, 23 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Si le bandeau anglais est faux, corrige-le, n'hésite pas. Mais sur Commons, les bandeaux de licence sont en anglais par défaut, il faut que tu comprennes qu'il y a une différence entre un bandeau de licence et la licence elle-meme. Merci, le Korrigan →bla 15:55, 23 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

User talk:Verdy p/archive1

Pic of the Day[edit]

Bandeaux de licence en anglais[edit]

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