File talk:Flag of Croatia.svg

Why this revertment. Didn't you read the Croatian Law on the CoA, Flag, Anthem and the Flag of the President of the Republic. Blue is the third color, not dark blue. CoA has in the three spikes of the Crown blue color and in the two spikes (Dubrovnik and Istria) dark blue. There is no third shade of blue on the flag, not according to the Law. There are only blue and dark blue, and those are used in the exact places as I have used it here. -- Rainman 22:56, 25 September 2007 (UTC)

Zakon o grbu, zastavi i himni Republike Hrvatske te zastavi i lenti Predsjednika Republike Hrvatske [("Narodne novine", br. 55/90, te članak 137. Zakona o izmjenama i dopunama zakona kojima su određene novčane kazne za privredne prijestupe i prekršaje ("Narodne novine", br. 26/93 i 29/94)] - is the full name/citation of the law.

Since one of the admins on commons knows Croatian (hr-1) he should read the article 10. which describes the flag and the article 7. which describes the CoA. The blue color of the CoA must be the same blue color on the Flag.

Publisher of most of school books in Croatia, called Školska knjiga, uses this color schematic. -- Rainman 22:51, 26 September 2007 (UTC)

I do not agree. The exact color is not stated anywhere. Who is giving you the right to choose exactly this color. Look at the flags you see on TV in government buildings or the presidential palais. The blue color is definitely darker. --Minestrone 17:55, 1 December 2007 (UTC)

On the issue of syncronization

Why syncronize this image (Flag of Croatia) to the images that are false. Why not instead syncronize to the correct image. -- Rainman 21:56, 30 September 2007 (UTC)

WP:SOFIXIT. -- Denelson83 05:22, 1 October 2007 (UTC)

Since some people have diverging opinions on the blue color of the flag: I think, the European Union flag color is definitely blue. Here it is specified as "Pantone Reflex Blue". So, let's use this color that is explicitly defined as "blue". Wonder what blue color is being used on US flags... See also: http://europa.eu/abc/symbols/emblem/graphics1_en.htm. --Minestrone 23:01, 5 November 2007 (UTC)

I reverted Rainman's images because thats not the blue color on croatian flag. In category "Flag of Croatia" you may see several fotos of croatian flag on the Croatian Parliament building, flags during the Statehood day etc. --Suradnik13 09:53, 29 November 2007 (UTC)

Blue or Navy blue

Article 10.

of the Law on the CoA, Flag and the Anthem of the Republic of Croatia and on the Flag and the Sash of the President of the Republic of Croatia.

The Flag of the Republic of Croatia consists of three bands (stripes) of colour: red, white and blue, with the Croatian Coat of Arms in the centre.

The length is twice the width. (Ratio of width and length is 1 : 2.)

Colours of the Flag are laid horizontally and in the folowing order from the top side: red, white, blue.

Each colour fills one third of the width of the Flag.

The Croatian Coat of Arms is placed in the centre of the Flag in the way that the top part of the CoA (Crown) sets in the red band (field) of the Flag, and the bottom part of the CoA sets in the blue band of the Flag.

Central point of the CoA coincide with the point where the diagonals of the Flag cross.

Source: Orriginal text of the Law can be found here (in Croatian only) and partialy translated by the Ministry of Foreign Affairs at Article 10. of the Law - Flag and Article 7. of the Law - CoA.

Second point (to be made here) is the fact that the CoA has blue and navy blue defined in itself. So lets use the blue that the CoA already uses. Majority of the users concluded that the colour is light blue (nevertheless it is called blue - in the eyes of the Law) and that it is certainly not turquoise nor in the eyes of the spectator nor in the eyes of the Law.

Third point is that WIPO still stores the of the SR Croatia which uses exactly the blue that is used in the current CoA of Croatia and which has never been dark blue nor navy blue nor any other kind of blue than the colour of our Croatian sky and sea. Remember that Croatia had a debut in Eurosong with a song that goes "Don't ever kry Croatian sky, never say goodbye, never say goodbye, ...".

Fourth point Croatian Flag is based from heraldical sources of the CoA of Croatia (red and white colours), CoA of Slavonia (blue and white colours) and CoA of Dalmatia (blue colour). It is not an accident that namely that Coat's of Arms (Dalmatia, and Slavonia) are of the light blue colour, and everybody aggrees that they are not of a turquoise colour). Most ancient CoA of Croatia which is the first from the hoist side and is part of the Crown has changed its shield colour from red to blue for the reason of aesthetics. For those that oppose the question of Croatian Flag beeing made from heraldical sources, see the datums of creation of the CoA (different for every CoA, the oldest beeing known CoA of Croatia) and of the Flag (created in 1848.).

Fifth point Even the Ministry of Foreign Affairs of Croatia uses the colour schematic that is closer to the usage of blue rather than those of dark or navy blue. Truth be willing they do not use (yet) the same blue of the parts of the Crown (spikes) that is blue of the First known CoA of Croatia, blue of Dalmatian CoA and the blue of the Slavonian CoA. But they do not use the dark blue nor navy blue for the third band of the Flag (bottom band).

And to conclude, Suradnik13 and Minestrone clearly violated the rule that all of the images that are dependent to the orriginal (or shall we say first or dominant image) must be exactly the same. They are clearly not the same because Minestrone uses black colour for the Marten on the Slavonian CoA. And they insist that the hoofs and the horn of the goat must be brown and not red (and red is what the Law says). Minestrone uses turquoise and Suradnik13 uses some funny shade of light blue resembling turquoise. In the oldest known Croatian CoA both of them bring closer together the six pointed golden Venus star and the silver new moon, this is not in the accordance with the first proposed CoA in Croatia that was made by graphic designer and esteemed artist and academician Šutej that became in many cases the Law. The six pointed golden Venus star must be the same in size and place as on the Slavonian CoA in the Crown.

From all this we can see that my opponents (Suradnik13 and Minestrone) have not explained themselves properly and are using the politicians point of view (or angle) in dealing with this matter. Why I say so, you ask. Well because they constantly put the images of Flags in front of Croatian Parliament and during some ceremonies in Croatia. Those are not to be taken seriously because they do not obey the Law, they make jockes about people that take seriously such matters and they are not capable to even find the ethalon of the CoA in the Croatian Parliament.

Rainman 23:29, 29 November 2007 (UTC)

Please can you tell me where in the Law is writen what kind of blue color is on the Croatian Flag?? In heraldry, this is the blue color and its very similar to the blue color in a attachment of croatian Decision on naval, command and rank flags and pennants on the naval ships of the Republic of Croatia. --Suradnik13 11:12, 30 November 2007 (UTC)

As I have said before and in many other occasions, the Decision that you refer to is false because it does not respect the Law on the Flag ... nor the Constitution of the Republic of Croatia. All Decisions must be in accordance with the Law and with the Constitution and all Laws must be in accordance with the Constitution. The heraldical definition of azure may be used in general but in our case the Flag of the Republic of Croatia was created from the CoA of Croatia, the CoA of Slavonia and the CoA of Dalmatia. You should look at the roof of the St. Marcus Cathedral in Zagreb. You should look at the page 49. of the Croatian Historical Maps where the exact colour scheme with the shade of blue from the three spikes of the Crown of the CoA is used for the bottom band of the Flag. The same publisher who published Croatian Historical Maps is the biggest publisher of school books and other schooling materials in Croatia and uses even better colour scheme in the atlases and maps of Croatia. This is it, for now. -- Rainman 19:34, 1 December 2007 (UTC)

The color used by the ministry of foreign affairs clearly is not light blue. It corresponds to the darker color of the coat of arms. Have a closer look! Anyway, I'd rather prefer azure as a compromise solution, if this is the heraldic standard color. One should also fill the white area of the flag with white color. At the moment the white stripe is marked as transparent. Furthermore, I guess the checkboard should also be exactly aligned to the position of the main stripes. --Minestrone 23:45, 1 December 2007 (UTC)

Have you read the Fifth part of my contribution. I have said that it was closer to the blue rather than to the dark blue. And I repeat that on this flag we have blue, not dark blue and not azure. I have not discussed about this and that. Because those images are not worthy of discussing (they use not correct colours in some parts of the CoA, and look as if were made by a child). You have a closer look over here. Azure is not a compromise solution it would have repercusions in the integrity of the CoA because the colours of the CoA must be in accordance with the colours of the Flag. See every Flag that Školska knjiga has published in their atlases or historical maps. See the gallery of Croatian CoA's thruogh history. White will be filled. Thanks. The CoA is perfectly aligned because the Crown must go in its complete into the red band. -- Rainman 00:15, 2 December 2007 (UTC)

Shame on you Rainman. Who are you to say that this Decision is unconstitutional???? Do you have any proof for that categoric claim??? Did you ever seen croatian flag??? Obvious not. I'm from Croatia, and i'm seen it every day. You have picture in gallery. Clic on it. Shame on you --12:35, 2 December 2007 (UTC)

I will not sink to your level and offend you. But would say that I am not among such who turn the other cheek. -- Rainman 22:50, 2 December 2007 (UTC)

Rainman, YOUR behavior is childish. How can you say that the image in the PDF file (the larger image) is not worth a discussion! Instead we should all look at the small HTML picture where nobody can possibly see any details! Even more: there's a link given to the larger PDF image file, where you can exactly see that the color of the blue stripe is darker. The stripe is using a dark blue color. The coat of arms is using both, a light and a dark blue. Should anyone listen to these unilateral approaches made by Rainman? Think most people do not regard YOUR color as standard color. The law simply states it has to be "blue". If most people think its NOT Rainmans blue - what shall we do!? Let's be democratic! --Minestrone 12:51, 2 December 2007 (UTC)

Wikipedia is not a democracy but decides among fellow peers who think before they speak and who decide on the meritum and proofs. Wikipedia does not support current policies but rather documented and well sourced information. -- Rainman 22:50, 2 December 2007 (UTC)

On the Decision

You didnt offer any referencies for claim that the Decision is false and unconstitutional. --Suradnik13 10:48, 3 December 2007 (UTC)

The decision that you think is lawfull could not have been decided by the President but separate Law. Read the Article 63., section 2. of the Law on Defence of that time. Anyways the Decision had not decided on the Flag of Croatia, but on other questions that are not discussed here. It is a question of dependent images, and not of this image. We can solve that very quickly by looking at the Naval Ensign and Naval Jack. Other parts of that Decision rank flags, and other are not subject of this discussion. -- Rainman 20:06, 3 December 2007 (UTC)

Further proof

I do not give myself the perrogative to choose which colours are to be used, but I must react to the false impression of the Croatian Flag on commons and in that way protect the integrity of Wikipedia thruogh every possible means.

First of all have you read the discussion in full, if not please read under the headline Blue or Navy blue.

Secondly. As I have explained we have the corroboration of the schematic in the works published by Školska knjiga, Zagreb (translation School Book, Zagreb) which uses the same colour in the three spikes of the main CoA's Crown (Slavonian CoA, Dalmatian CoA and Illyrian movement CoA) and in the bottom band (stripe) of the Flag.

Thirdly. The Flag of the Socialist Republic of Croatia has this kind of a blue colour.

Fourthly. Artisticly designed CoA of Croatia in colour is the part of the Proposal for the passing of the Law on the CoA, Flag and the Anthem of the Republic of Croatia and on the Flag and the Sash of the President of the Republic of Croatia, with the Draft of the Law and it is available - here. It is an official government document of the time when the Law was passed in the Parliament of the Republic of Croatia (now Croatian Parliament) which is dated 1990-12-18 and has nummerical markers CLASS: 017-01/90-01/02, REGNUMBER: 503-01-15/90-6. Those nummbers tell us that it is the there exist six different proposals of which this is the last and definite one. The Proposal for the passing of the Law on the CoA, Flag and the Anthem of the Republic of Croatia and on the Flag and the Sash of the President of the Republic of Croatia, with the Draft of the Law was defined by the Government of the Republic of Croatia under the presidency of His Excellency Mr. Josip Manolić, Prime Minister of the time.

To conclude. I have used all possible sources to determine which blue is appearing on the CoA of Slavonia, Dalmatia, Illyrian movement in the past, then all possible sources of governmental official documents that clearly represent blue colour on the official CoA of the present (and hopefully future). I have requested the ethalon (orriginal) of the CoA of Republic of Croatia from the Croatian Parliament and they have sent me - this. I have wrote on this COMPLETE matter to the President of the Croatian Parliament, His Excellency, Dr. h. c. Vladimir Šeks, dr. iur. This is much more than those who think that the Croatian Flag is red-white-navy (dark, deep or other darker variant) blue. The Croatian Flag is, and shall always be red-white-blue. Even in the darkest times of Croatian past no politican has been able to change that fact, never shall be able. Even in the law of that dark time the People's Flag, as she was called was red-white-blue.

Rainman 00:04, 2 December 2007 (UTC) (it was I, Rainman)

Come on, Rainman. Look at the flags of France, the Netherlands, Czech Republic, and dozens of other states (already mentioned USA and EU). They are using a truly blue color. You are introducing wrong colors. Please do not stick to this blunder. Who says that anything has been regulated. It is only common sense one could use. And I think most people do not regard the current color as standard blue. --Minestrone 12:25, 2 December 2007 (UTC)

Most of people do not care, and it is well regulated. We should use common sense but know that Wikipedia is not a democracy, but meritocracy. -- Rainman 22:42, 2 December 2007 (UTC)

By the way, all these historic images mentioned here clearly have serious quality problems. Often copied, color not powerful enough, etc. One should not regard old archive flags as representative. After all, Michelangelos Sistine chapel is the best example for washed-out colors. Only pure quality images should be used. Maybe someone should clean his/her glasses/monitor before continuing with the discussion. :) --Minestrone 13:02, 2 December 2007 (UTC)

Could someone please download the files from this site - there's even an Adobe Image file: [1]. Think, everybody can clearly see that the flag used by the ministry of foreign affairs has a darker blue lower stripe. And, we should really use a qualitatively better file, that has been used for years here on Wikipedia. Just have to mention: The central white stripe is still transparent... --Minestrone 13:02, 2 December 2007 (UTC)

Anyone who had ever made a flag on a PC is going to laugh on those images. It seems like a child made them, leopard heads and marten do not look that way. -- Rainman 20:48, 3 December 2007 (UTC)

On the issue of transparency of the middle band. I have checked it an it is white. -- Rainman 22:28, 2 December 2007 (UTC)

have a look at these examples from the official government site: [2]. --Minestrone 17:14, 2 December 2007 (UTC)

This is not official, this is a wallpaper and not anything else. -- Rainman 20:48, 3 December 2007 (UTC)

Holy moly! The flag from the ministry of foreign affairs, please - THAT's an official version, for sure. Just look at the Adobe Image or PDF file: http://www.mfa.hr/MVP.asp?pcpid=949. Can't stand this childish behavior anymore. --Minestrone 21:32, 3 December 2007 (UTC)

Flag of the President is the part of the solution

The Flag of the President of the Republic of Croatia is another proof that the colour suggested by Minestrone is not the correct one.

Why?

Because the main colour of the Flag of the President is defined as navy (dark, deep) blue AND in a official representation of that flag at WIPO. I hope that there is no need to stress the importance of this worldwide respected institution which Croatia is a member of.

Article 23. of the Law on the CoA, Flag and the Anthem of the Republic of Croatia and on the Flag and the Sash of the President of the Republic of Croatia clearly states that the colour of the main field is navy blue.

The Flag of the President has been stored at WIPO since 1993-09-07 and sent to all member states of the WIPO at the request of Croatian government. Regretfully, even this Flag is not without mistakes and deliberate disregard of the above mentioned Law. Namely marten cannot be black and the small flag of Croatia with the golden letters RH cannot have the bottom band navy blue.

It is just that colour (the main colour of the Presidential Flag) that Minestrone suggested to be used as a compromise one and called it azure. This azure is almost exactly the navy blue colour in the Presidential Flag of Croatia.

Rainman 19:56, 3 December 2007 (UTC)

On the solution of the problem

One thing is clear. We, who have found ourselves interested in this problem, must not decide by emotions nor by the influence of masses (by which I understand usage of flags in newspapers, by fans of the National football team, usage of the Flag by some companies that produce flags or similar sources). Everyone is invited to state their opinion but it would be advisable that whoever is entering in this discussion has to calm down and has to be open minded.

My humble contribution has been made here and at the Croatian Wikipedia. I do not imagine that my contribution has to be the standard one. Hence I am not Boris Ljubičić who tries to make his contribution the standard and new official norm.

All of those users who think that the Croatian Flag used navy blue (and under that name or any other name, like dark blue, deep blue) should change their opinion because I have proved that the colour is blue in its name, norm and real use in schools through Croatia. I think that Croatian Flag has its unofficial but popular and nationwide excepted name Red-White-and-Blue.

As sooner those users abandon their (in Law) unsupported opinion we could launch an discussion with cool heads, open minds and evidentiary support which would in the broadest meaning of the word give durable and reliable results.

We can discuss weather the colour is too pale or too light but it cannot be navy blue nor any other darker blue that will resemble the main colour of the Flag of the President of the Republic of Croatia.

I have just today see the Flag of the Republic of Croatia on the meeting of the President of Croatia with secretary general of NATO-OTAN. At that meeting blue of the three parts of the Crown (of the CoA) that is three spikes or in the direct translation of the Law three small shields of respectively Slavonia, Dalmatia and Ancient Croatia (once observed translation of the Illyrian CoA, oldest known CoA of Croatia, etc., etc.) was exactly of the same colour of the bottom band of the Flag.

But the repercussion of darkening of the bottom band of the Flag must be the darkening of the three small shields of the CoA’s crown.

The top limit of darkness is the azure that is by the standards of the Presidential Flag been proclaimed as navy (dark, deep) blue.

Rainman 19:56, 3 December 2007 (UTC)

That's not true. Do not know which kind of color you see on the presidential flag. I see a "darker" version of the blue (did not mean dark blue), except on the coat of arms. By the way, I'm not guided by feelings but by the common understanding and the common use of the Croatian flag. You are trying to introduce a completely wrong vision all on your own. We should change to the version before this dispute. Who gives you the right to claim that your opinion is the only legitimate. Other users too have already complained. Whatever reasons you are trying to find, they are extremely arbitrary and incoherent. Even your statement about the flag you have seen today at the NATO meeting. It's always a darker shade of blue that is being used for the stripe, never this lighter version of blue. This version is unacceptable. --Minestrone 21:27, 3 December 2007 (UTC)

This is and has been a really nice version: http://hr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slika:Croatia_flag_large.png --Minestrone 21:34, 3 December 2007 (UTC)

You are wrong, it is correct, by the text of the Law this colour is called navy blue colour of the Flag of the President of Croatia. You can see whatever you want but the question is that you should agree that the colour of three small shields of the CoA (Dalmatian, Slavonian, Illyrian) must be exactly of the same colour as the bottom band of the Flag of Croatia.

Then we can debate what is more important. To adhere to the Law (it is similar to the respecting of the facts) or to follow the rule of the people's affections (which nobody can know what each and every one think).

I am not introducing anything new, Školska knjiga (School Book) produces from 1994. the right colour scheme in its book Croatian Historical Maps, and in all of its atlases and maps products from 1994.

I am not claiming that my position must be the standard one, but yours position on the other hand is not supported by and documentary evidence other than your suggestion that we use Neoneo13's schematic which has turquoise, black marten, dark navy blue bottom band of the Flag, not well positioned golden star on first shield (from left) of the Crown in CoA, brown hoofs and horns of the goat, outer ear of the goat in black as well of the hole under the tail of the goat (also in black), etc., etc.

Your suggestion that EU, US or NATO (blue) should be Croatian blue is preposterous.

Everyone who uses navy blue for the bottom band has not thought things through because this colour is unacceptable to be called blue, it looks on TV like black colour and it is easily mistakable for the bottom band of the Flag of the Netherlands.

http://www.wipo.int/ipdl/IPDL-IMAGES/SIXTERXML-IMAGES/images/hr1.jpg You have not even looked at it and you have most clearly not read the Law – which stipulates that this is navy blue (main colour on the Flag of the President of the Republic of Croatia).

Rainman 00:40, 6 December 2007 (UTC)

On the sources

Look at this monograph: Croatian Historical Maps, Page 49.

Authors: Josip Lučić PhD, Franjo Šanjek PhD, Ljubomir Antić PhD, Branko Vidaček, Ivan Bertić MS

Editorial board: Vera Müller MS (chief editor), Snježana Haiman MS, Zdravko Prelčec MA, Franko Mirošević PhD, Ivan Bertić MS; M.Sci. Tomislav Jelić

Rewievers: Josip Kolanović PhD, Anđelko Mijatović MA

Chief Rewiever: Agneza Szabo PhD

Publishers: Vera Müller, IO Kartografija - Učila, Zagreb, 26 Frankopanska street and Dragomir Mađerić PhD, IP Školska knjiga d. d., Zagreb, 28 Masarykova street

Made at Kartografiji - Učila, Zagreb, Croatia, 1994.

Print: TIZ Zrinski d. d., Čakovec, Croatia, july 1994.

ISBN 953-0-10877-X

ISBN 953-6023-00-8

As members of the Comitee for the selection of the heraldical and visual solution of the CoA of Croatia served one of the authors of "Croatian Historical Maps" and one rewiever too.

Complete list of members is: Nikša Stančić PhD (chairman); Josip Kolanović PhD; M.Sci. Miljenko Pandžić; Antun Abramović MA; Josip Lučić PhD; Ante Gulin PhD; Jelena Borošak-Marijanović PhD; Vlasta Brajković MA

The Committee has brought its findings to the president of the Parliament of the Republic of Croatia (now it is called just Croatian Parliament) which then was Žarko Domljan PhD. H. E. Mr. Žarko Domljan PhD had commisioned the visual arts expert and designer Miroslav Šutej, MA (latter Fellow of Croatian Academy of Sciences and Arts with - the titule of academician - in short and in accordance with english speaking traditions equals in translation to - F. C. A.) to make drawings of the CoA. Best of them all had been passed with acclamation as Law in the regular parliamentary process, with one reading and few amandmans.

Rainman 00:42, 6 December 2007 (UTC)

Colors

Guys, why don't you just use the same colors as the Croatian officals did at their version of the flag (linked here) and at their version of the COA (linked there)?? I notice that none of the two versions used here use these colors. Rainman's version uses #4571c2 for the darker of the two shades of blue, and the other version uses #021272. The images from the Croatian Ministry of Foreign Affairs use #0066b3! All the other colors are also off, BTW. Cheers, Lupo 12:33, 6 December 2007 (UTC)

And the third version here (from August 5, 2007, 17:10 UTC) uses #0051ba for the darker of the two shades of blue. Again, why not #0066b3, as is used in the official image? Lupo 12:41, 6 December 2007 (UTC)

Those are not official images. A child could make better images. And Regarding the colouring it is more important to respect the Law than some images that one part of the Government use. Those images at MFA could have been made by a one officer-in-charge (office clerk) and are not the official standing of that ministry. Have you seen the flag at the same Ministry of foreign affairs at here, I THINK that you have seen it (since you are using the quotation of it in your contribution). If they at the MFA use different kinds of colouring then what of those images should we choose?

Government of Croatia is currently in the process of transition, so we shall see. But the Law must be respected. And finally we have this colouring schematic which is further from the Law and furtherest from the truth. It is the same as can be seen at here. And here + here where Mello Luchtenberg uses yet different colouring schematic. As I am told even Zeljko Heimer uses his schematic.

Rainman 18:39, 6 December 2007 (UTC)

Re: "Those are not official images. A child could make better images." Source, please. For both sentences. Lupo 19:56, 6 December 2007 (UTC)

Your suggestion that we take notice of the Adobe file but not the Flag that is exactly on the page which sources the Adobe file is somewhat strange. It is even more strange that this is exactly the tactics of Minestrone (he used it earlier in this discussion). I know that you have not the time to look at each and every source (because of your admin status on both en.W and commons) therefore I have been slightly surprised to see that you want even more information. Ok, I said to myself.

In short:

• Have you noticed that the page which sources the Adobe file shows yet another colour schematic?
• Have you noticed that the Croatian Government page shows yet another colour schematic - better yet noticed that it has been borrowed from here.
• Have you noticed that I have citted and translated the Croatian Law on symbols
• Have you noticed all of the arguments in favour of the usage of same colour for both parts of the CoA and bottom band of the Flag?

And to conclude.

Those images are not official because they are not as the Law on symbols states, even at the same page that you and Minestrone like so much here you can read that the colour of the flag is blue, it cannot be navy blue. at the page which describes the CoA it is explained what is the blue colour and what is the navy blue colour according to the Law.

What do you expect more, Croatia's Govt. now hasn't the time to be concerned with this but I will write again and again to them in hope that they would come to terms with the Law and start using the same colours. When you have that kind of a situation you should read as much as possible of the arguments presented in a discussion, and not just support something simply because it is the easy way.

Why I said that it is like children had played with the Adobe file. Because the representation of the symbols of the Crown is uterly false. The three leopard heads particulary. The marten also. The colours are vouge and darkened, especially the dark blue one.

I hope that you wouldn't support the revert to the image before because it has too much mistakes, all of which I described at this talk page. Some of it include: turquoise colour which is utterly unappropriate, black marten, brown hoofs and horns of the goat, outer ear of the goat in black (as if it has two eyeses - it has two eyes but they are not portrayed in the Flag), what is behind the tail of the goat should not be portrayed not in black - not in any other colour, two kind of red on the flag, bottom band cannot be as dark as almost black, it must be the colour of blue (not azure, not EU, USA, NATO or any other kind of blue than represented on the CoA of Croatia). Croatian Flag has been made long ago, and entered in official use in 1868 when Kingdom of Hungary and Kingdom of Croatia-Slavonia and Dalmatia signed a treaty which defined much topics (among them the Flag). See Mello Luchtenberg's oppinion of the Flag of Croatia of the present time + Mello Luchtenberg's oppinion of the past of the Flag of Croatia. As much I do not aggree with him about all of his representations of the Flag, his site is a good way to start thinking about the entire topic.

And the only trully official stuff can be found at WIPO and Proposal which has been accepted by the Croatian Parliament but in slightly different way (namely the goat is yellow).

Rainman 23:40, 6 December 2007 (UTC)

A revert to the version before Rainmans edits would be appropriate. The previous version has not been disputed for a long time until Rainman imposed his objections. --Minestrone 22:25, 6 December 2007 (UTC)

And the period of time without objections is important because? This is no argument. -- Rainman 23:40, 6 December 2007 (UTC)

Wait a sec. Maybe I misunderstood the problem. What are you arguing about:

1. "Which shades of blue to use?" (i.e., "which precise RGB values to use for "light blue", and which for "dark blue"), or
2. "Does the bottom stripe of the flag use the lighter or the darker shade of blue?"

Lupo 10:02, 7 December 2007 (UTC)

I agree with Minestrone. Rainman constantly revert to own version without prior accordance. Problem is in the right shade of a blue color. Croatian Law says only "blue", but does not respond on the question which shade of blue. Presidential Decision on naval, command and rank flags and pennants on the naval ships of the Republic of Croatia is the only official act published in Official Gazette wich have image of croatian flag colors in attachment. Shade of blue in that Decision is very close to the shade of blue in heraldy. Rainman's blue is to light and weird.

I'm admin on Croatian wikipedia, and i must to say that many users had complaned on Rainman's version of flag. Also user Rainman (different user name on croatian wikipedija) has been blocked several times on croatian wikipedia because similar approach to the problem --Suradnik13 10:54, 7 December 2007 (UTC)

I'm still not sure I understand what the argument is about. See above. Is the question whether the light or dark shade of blue should be used for the "blue" stripe of the flag, or is the question what the precise RGB values for the light and dark shades of blue should be? That's two very different things! Lupo 11:10, 7 December 2007 (UTC)

We shouldn't think too complicated. It's only about the color of the blue stripe on the flag. Most people think that the present version simply does not represent the correct, ie. officially used, color. It's simply not the right blue color, since too light. We do not have, so far, any precise RGB values. Since the law does not precisely state WHICH kind of color should be used, we are in a dilemma. If you look at all the present flags in Croatia though you'll see that it is actually the blue color that has been used previously. (See: [3]) Think Rainman maybe loves ship flags - they get pretty washed out by the time under the influence of the bright sunlight and the sea water... Though, it's a rich, intense and pretty dark blue that should be used on the flag (just compare it with the EU or US flag). I guess we also can't really argue about all the different kinds of blue: the blue stripe and the two different shades of blue on the coat (begins with lighter blue, but there's a very dark blue on the coat too) - so 3 different shades of blue. For me, this is irrelevant. The color of the stripe does not have to correspond to any of the colors on the coat. It simply has to have a darker color. Whatever lawyers might pick out of the wording of the very general and actually imprecise law. (I would not like to comment on Rainman's comment on my discussion page - we all know what he's suggesting.). --Minestrone 20:42, 7 December 2007 (UTC)

Here you can see a picture of a regular Croatian flag in Zagreb - see Vecernji list newspaper site: [4] --Minestrone 22:41, 7 December 2007 (UTC)

Never shall the decisions of public servant be higher than the Law, this is nothing, not a source not a documentary evidece. -- Rainman 02:18, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

Answer to Lupo

Well, both actually. See, the Law clearly states that this "light blue" is called blue and that "dark blue" is called navy blue.

What I want to accomplish here, is the following:

• Usage of correct "light blue" and correct "dark blue",
• Usage of those correct colours at their correct places.

In a situation where almost every part of the Government of Croatia uses its own colours, and when they do not care what flag stands behind them when they speak publicly. We simply cannot use them as a reference. I do not want to list tiresome facts that I have already listed (first of them would be the Law).

When the Law says something is blue on the CoA and says something is blue on the Flag – those should be of the same colour.

My opponent would say. There is no place in the Law that says so. I say to them, there is a place in the Law that defies the usage of navy blue as the bottom band. For this I have produced authorized translations form the same dubious page they are using for citation. But you can ask one of the admins to help you (one of them uses basic Croatian language). The text of the Law can be found here (Croatian language only).

And what else can we say to my opponents – the Law can be described as vogue and other attributes may be used too; but the Law didn’t in any place state that there should be three colours of blue, two colours of red and brown for the hoofs and horns of the goat. The Law didn’t state that the marten should be coloured black and they constantly (especially Minestrone cheer for the reverting to previous images) where we have all of those mistakes. The lawmakers hadn’t taught that Croatians do not know how the marten looks like, and what the dominant colour of martens is in Croatia (Slavonian CoA is in question).

I know that things are not perfect in life and that we should all compromise a bit, but the other side are showing much disrespect of any of my arguments and they are discussing in a rude manner. I am not used to complain about this kind of discussion, and have participated in such behaviour, but what is enough is enough. No one should reveal the facts that they have on fellow users (like Suradnik13 is doing now).

Compromise is possible. I have tried to near our differences in the time of my first trial of changes to the status of the Flag at commons (as I have always said, making it more or less according to the articles of our Law.). But there and then User:R-41 denied any chance of a compromise by reverting to the state in which I had found the Flag to be before my second trial.

Rainman 02:18, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

Denial (rebuttal) of some disinformation

User:Denelson83 advised me. I decided to be bold and daring and listened to his advice. The advice was to fix all of the depending images to comply to this image. The state of those images in question was not good, some of them used black marten, some brown, some light blue in the CoA, some of them turquoise in the CoA, most of them used some elements which defy the Law like brown hoofs and horns of the goat, other parts of the goat that should not have been present … Now when we have such smart interlocutors in out midst they could use the same advice and not preach of some prior accordance. With whom I ask our learned friends.

The other thing about the term “blue” I have already and most fully described. The Law know two colours theme, and not three. There is no problem with the colour of blue. It is defined in the CoA.

Rainman 02:18, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

On the Constitution, Legal system of Croatia, Laws and Decrees (in short)

Sorry but this is necessary and I’ll try to make it short.

1. In Croatia we have a Constitution which states in its article 5. Full translation of the Constitution available at the Constitutional Court of Croatia website that “In the Republic of Croatia laws shall conform with the Constitution, and other rules and regulations shall conform with the Constitution and law. Everyone shall abide by the Constitution and law and respect the legal order of the Republic of Croatia.”.
2. Croatian Parliament is the lawmaker in Croatia and has made a Law on symbols (short for the tiresome listing of the full name of the law)
3. Croatian Parliament made the Law somewhat difficult. But when you do not use WYSIWYG you end up with GIGO.
4. Croatian Parliament made the first completely independent Law on Defence valid from 1991-07-04 to 1996-08-20 which proclaimed that there would be a separate Law which concerns about flags of the units of Armed Forces, naval flags and rank flags. This is how things have been made when Croatia was a republic in a union of republics and autonomous provinces of SFRY.
5. Then at 1996-08-20 President of the Republic of Croatia had been given the power to make a decree about establishing flags of the units of Armed Forces, naval flags and rank flags but not of establishing command flags nor pennants of the naval ships. Clearly this was then considered less important for his time.
6. The controversial decision came into effect 1999-10-13 and the President of the Republic of Croatia, H. E. Dr. Franjo Tuđman, honour academician – died 1999-12-10
7. This was a state of affairs in this department up to 2002-04-06 when the President of the Republic has only the right of establishing flags of the units of Armed Forces but with the consent of the Minister of Defence and on his recommendation. But nor the President nor the Minister have the right of establishing naval, command and rank flags and pennants on the naval ships of the Republic of Croatia (except if we understand pennants as marks of duty and command flags as marks of the headquoters. On the other law, that is, Law on the service in the Armed Forces of the Republic of Croatia, the President has the right to establish naval and rank flags by virtue of a Rulebook (but even this potential Rulebook does not give the right of establishing command flags nor pennants.

This was an introduction, but what follows is much less stressful. Here we go again. The President must abide both the Constitution both all of the Laws of Croatia. In case of this Decision the President was in his rights to decide on naval, command and rank flags and pennants on the naval ships of the Republic of Croatia but NOT on anything else. He was obligated with the Constitution itself to use blue colour and by the Law on symbols not to use navy blue (or any darker blue colour). He shoved brutal disregard of the Law on symbols which he simply had to consult before choosing the Naval Ensign and the Naval Jack. Even in the case of you and yours colleagues the admins decide to go with it (meaning the Decision) you can only change the Naval Ensign and the Naval Jack but not the Civil Ensign. And this would be disregarding the commonality of the dependent images being same as the first (dominant) image. The Decision in question has as it’s atachment only the artistic representation of naval, command and rank flags and pennants on the naval ships of the Republic of Croatia AND not a blason of the CoA used in it nor the description of the Flag colours used in it. Where are the words, where is the real citation. The President simply had no right to use colours different from the Law nor is his decision completely correct because he uses blue field at the small shield (representing Slavonian CoA) instead of red – it is the field on which the marten steps slowly to the left (or if we are discussing using the heraldical term its - to the right).

And we have tons of other proofs listed throughout all of this discussion, I’ll not name all, but WIPO CoA of Croatia, Flag of SR Croatia, Proposal that Croatian Parliament accepted in a slightly different scheme, the Presidential Flag of the Republic of Croatia (also WIPO), history, Sources that support the sameness of colour in the CoA and on the Flag (namely publisher of most school books in Croatia named Školska knjiga – translation School Book), etc., etc.

Rainman 02:18, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

Suradnik13

And why should we listen to an administrator who disregards fundamental rules of Wikipedia – that obliges him not to divulge any personal information about fellow user.

His disregard for the truth has steeped to a new low. I had been blocked one time in regard for my transgressions of the rules, and learned my lesson. He on the other hand did not. And it was not about the Flags or my position on the issue but a whole different story in which he was included as and opposite side. It had been more about the Decorations of Croatia, than anything else. The other blocking is not worth talking about. I think that I had been blocked total three times, and only one (and partially) about the Flag topic.

The fact that we are talking about a person that does the things he does, speaking that he had become an admin on Croatian Wikipedia in mid September this year. Yeah. You are an admin on Croatian Wikipedia, what that’s got to do with anything. You are not an admin here; yet.

One should compare the images that Suradnik13 sent here (at commons) of those naval, command and rank flags and pennants on the naval ships of the Republic of Croatia. He deliberately darkened them in defiance of the Decision that he is citing here. Except in case of the rank flag the President of the Government of Croatia. He lightened that one. I would say that only those naval, command and rank flags and pennants on the naval ships of the Republic of Croatia that he contributed – which are without blue (in any shade) are to be considered on the path of being correct.

Rainman 02:18, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

Compromise

Hence some of users think that this is weird. I will upload a new version. And we will see where we go from there.

Rainman 02:18, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

To Minestrone. Look at the current version. Now it is preety much as during the Statehood day. -- Rainman 23:59, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

It is even darker than the Azure color. -- Rainman 00:20, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

Navy blue should not be a colour of the bottom band of the Flag

This will be explicitly described if Minestrone wants that historical part explained. For the sake of not entering in that part of the discussion I beg of him not to suggest any more this nor force me to enter into discussion in which I will have no other choice but to use citations of the Constitution of the Republic of Croatia and its preamble.

Rainman 02:18, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

Could somebody block this user? Rainman simply cannot behave differently than imposing his own views. That is simply not correct. No room for compromise and lack of understanding for the proper cause are other major deficiencies of this user. Furthermore, Ustasa-fascist suggestions are not nice. --Minestrone 18:08, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

You are seeing ghost's man. I do not impose anything. You are imposing status quo and revertment to what was drawn by another one man user Neoneo13. You and your sort of people are those not up to compromise. And I lack no understanding or facts about this topic. You should look for those characteristics in yourself. Those suggestions are made by you - not me. And now you are out. Your narrow mind is also recognized. With you and your sort it is always about WWII.

My point was not to go further into the discussion about the Constitution which states that Croatia is a successor state of

1. The Socialist Republic of Croatia
2. People's Republic of Croatia
3. Federal State of Croatia (Federal Croatia, Democratic Croatia and Republic of Croatia are used in this period also)
4. State Antifascist Council of National Liberation of Croatia
5. etc., etc., deeper into history.

This was what I was hoping to avoid. And the fact that colour of the Flag of SR Croatia are well known.

This is all. -- Rainman 18:58, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

P. S. Not to forget. Need glasses. -- Rainman 18:58, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

For the sake, Rainman, we do not speak here about legal system of Croatia and croatian history. I linked to the images of croatian flag in front Croatian Parliament - you didnt like it. Then i linked to the presidential Decision - then you talk about legal system in Croatia. Please, Rainman, do not impose your own view. --Suradnik13 18:45, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

You have brought up the question. I stated that the Decision is not in accordance with the Croatia's legal system. You wanted an explanation. And you got it. This decision can be brought up only in the case of Naval Ensign and Naval Jack.

You are imposing your view of those naval, command, rank flags and pennants. You are deliberately darkening them up to match your view of Croatia's Flag. If you are not abbiding the Decision why should anyone. -- Rainman 19:07, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

Blocking of Rainman would be great :) --Suradnik13 18:45, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

Three administrators of commons are tracking this, not just Lupo, we have Zscout370 and Denelson83. And Klemen Kocjancic is standing by also. -- Rainman 19:07, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

Where its writen that this Decison is not in a accordance with the Law. I need a citation, not your legal advise. See the flag on the ship. At the momement, i dont have possibility to make a corrections on the naval flags --Suradnik13 19:32, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

If that picture is your crown evidence, then all I would need to say is - What a lousy evidence. You and your source want us to belive that it is evidentiary material, but it is NOT. If this photo has been taken in Pula at 18th of September 2005. then it shows utter disregard of the Decision (that one you LOVE). Naval Jack (on the image) is not used according to the Decision. The CoA of Croatia on the side of that ship (OB64) has white paint between the Crown and the main shield of the CoA of Croatia. This picture clearly shows in what sittuation our symbols are. All about the Decision is written under the title "On the Constitution, Legal system of Croatia, Laws and Decrees (in short)". This is not even a topic for discussion because the appearance of those Flags (Naval Ensign and Naval Jack) are not of any importance here. Those flags have been disregarded as evidentiary material in the exact second they have been created. Re-read the discussion properly so I wouldn't have to repeat myself. Well in short (because I know that you do not read anything I say) the marten slowly (and proudly) step onto the red field and not onto the blue field as your prescious Decision decree's.

It is not even a Decision but a Decree.

Rainman 21:48, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

Ok, for Rainman, "blue" simply is not "blue". I'd say - to me - Rainman's blue is a different blue than standard blue. It's a too light version, let's say a version of azure blue, but that's not the standard in Croatia. Could we agree on that? Most people, and especially in Croatia (just look at the national football teams, the flags in front of the parliament, on warships, etc.) have a deeper, darker blue in mind. NOT the blue color of the former socialist republic - that Rainman's suggesting! By the way, Rainman, why do you ignore all these current, modern versions of the flag - why aren't you accepting that? What you are trying to do is to go back in time, coming up with ideas that best fit your views, relativizing any law that comes up without a precise RGB code and - even worse - you do not accept any comments on behalf of other users, instead you are trying to impose your own, very narrow, views. Please don't behave like Don Quijote against the windmills! This is not YOUR flag, but the flag of all Croatian people. They decided to have a nicer flag than before, some of them eben lost their lives fighting for this new Croatia. Ok, but I'll stop before it gets to pathetic. Simply have to say that I do not like people who claim their views on certain laws - even if their claims are NOT stated precisely in that law - and who do not accept reality. That's in fact, ignorance of reality, relativization - a lawayers behavior of the worst kind. --Minestrone 12:28, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

One fact, though that I like is your handling of all these tiny little marten issues. Very nice! Well, to say, could be, must not be, can be! Here once again, it is not stated clearly in the law, but its rather in your mind. Let's first agree on the blue color. We can then continue talking about the other smaller details. Well, I admit, maybe the goat should have another color, but who knows. Think the creators of the law simply did not think of stating that precisely. Hard to recognize on a flag anyway. --Minestrone 12:33, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

One more thing: What is it actually, you are doing with the color of the blue stripe. You are now changing it more and more towards a darker blue. Though, that means that you are not sticking to your own rules of precision. --Minestrone 12:43, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

I am of an open mind, nevertheless your statements. You are the one not willing to do anything but compromise. -- Rainman 23:57, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

Colors 2

Notwithstanding any original research about the meaning of the law, all photos of real Croatian flags I've been able to find show a dark blue for the bottom stripe, a light blue for the first, third, and fifth shield in the "crown", and again a dark blue for the second and fourth shield in the "crown". See e.g. [5], [6], [7] (EU web site, 7th image should be a Croatian flag, hi-res version for non-commercial purposes available only after registration), [8] (third image form the top), or also the two photos in our own Category:Flags of Croatia. Whether the blue of the bottom stripe is the same as one of the two shades of blue in the crown is unclear. Lupo 22:59, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

I hope that you do not think this is orriginal research. Law is still more clear than using dark blue (as was before). Photos may be, but I have named the source that uses flags with blue (being the same kind of a blue that is in the first, third and fifth part of the Crown) in the part about Sources. -- Rainman 23:57, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

Now, the currently used blue for the bottom stripe is actually quite pleasing, I think. But now the blues in the "crown" should be corrected. They clearly don't correspond to what is used on real flags. Lupo 22:59, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

I am happy to hear that. Still think the compromise is needed on the other side (opponent's of my suggestion). I have more evidence on the possibility that parts of the crown need not to be "light blue" but of some slightly darker "light blue". Will inform you and our discutants about is soon. -- Rainman 23:57, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

Well, Rainman, on all photos the blue of the first, third and fifth shield in the crown is much lighter than the blue of the bottom stripe of the flag... the darker shade of blue used in the second and fourth shield of the crown may or may not be the same blue as that of the bottom stripe. Lupo 00:04, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

I disaggree (partialy) because (all of it described thruoght the entire discussion). Blue in the 1st, 3rd, 5th section of the Crown are either as this image - which was used when Parliament delivered the Law (more exactly it was an a visual design for the parliamentarians attached with the Proposition of the Law). And also Government of Croatia requested of WIPO to store, protect and send to international community this CoA and this Presidential flag. As for the 2nd and 4th shield - their colour (navy blue) is not a colour of the Flag.

Let me clarify. You have citted some pictures. But we can find as much of pictures which use turquoise for 1st, 3rd and 5th section, that use ordinary blue for 2nd and 4th, and many other combinations. None of this is according of the Law but some use those imagery. You have those "official" images at Ministry of foreign affairs (that you have suggested) - these are yet another kind of blue - which is not much lighter than the third band of the Flag from the top.

I think that no proffesional vexillologist could go lighter than what I citted now (in this very response) for the 1st, 3rd and 5th. And that could go darker than 2nd and 4th. The bottom band of the Flag is a question of a compromise. I used the law to justify blue colour of the CoA on the Flag, then in accordance with the customs (Statehood day image) used somewhat darker blue.

I hope that it is in our joint best interest not to go deeper into the Crown issue because my evidence (on that topic) is supstantiate.

Rainman 00:42, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

P. S. Have you seen the discussion under the Compromise subtitle. -- Rainman 00:42, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

Relax. this is fine as far as a pencil drawing goes. Fix the first, third, and fifth shield to a light blue similar to the one in that pencil sketch, and use a dark blue (but not Navy blue :-) for the second and fourth shields, and leave the bottom stripe as it is here. That should give us a usable flag image. Lupo 07:29, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

Doing. But I taught that came close to that standard. -- Rainman 22:57, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

Don't agree on the blue of the bottom stripe. Again, this color seems to me to be a bit of an amateur kind - using Microsoft Paint without too many color options, e.g. The lower stripe definitely deserves a more mature blue as on the photos. --Minestrone 17:23, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

Please, I use Inkscape. -- Rainman 22:57, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

Workspace

All right. I think we should try to arrive at a consensus version not by modifying this file constantly, as it is used in many places. As a workspace where we can experiment without disturbing anyone, I have uploaded Image:Flag of Croatia for discussion.svg. Please note that this is just a proposal; open to discussion. If you'd like to propose a different coloring, please just upload a new version of Image:Flag of Croatia for discussion.svg, and explain on the image page how and why you chose the colors you used. Please don't discuss over there, though; let's keep the discussion here. Lupo 08:25, 11 December 2007 (UTC)

That is actually a pretty nice version. Though one could leave the light blue color on the coat as it is. :) Will try to create an example of my own as soon as I've got more time. --Minestrone 09:42, 11 December 2007 (UTC)

Its seems OK to me that blue stripe --Suradnik13 11:14, 12 December 2007 (UTC)

Alright. There#s a new proposal online. Used the color of the French flag as example. --Minestrone 17:47, 17 December 2007 (UTC)

Hm. Looks like you used Rainman's colors for the crown, but yet a third kind of blue for the bottom stripe. Lupo 11:04, 18 December 2007 (UTC)

Yes, it seems to me that the crown looks much nicer with a little darker version of blue. Rainman himself used different blues. Thanks for changing the dimensions, but I'd also like my changes of the coat being put into my version, since it does not really match to the stripes. Arrangement ist important too. The goat and marten should now be better visible too. Just cut off the borders from my version, please. What is most important. We are using a standard blue now for the stripe. --Minestrone 11:46, 18 December 2007 (UTC)

I tried to just remove the empty space, but didn't succeed, so I just imported the colors you had used into the 1200×600 version. I didn't even notice there were other differences. I hope I now got them all. Lupo 12:09, 18 December 2007 (UTC)

Well, I'd like to have the blue stripe in line with the last row of the checkered field. Anyway, couldn't manage it too - even with Adobe Illustrator. Thanks for all! --Minestrone 21:55, 18 December 2007 (UTC)

On the version done by Lupo

• The dark blue you have used is even darker than those of Wikipedia's list of colors. Our praxis use navy blue and the Law stipulates its use, of course we are now talking about 2nd & 4th shield of the Crown.
• The light blue you have used has a bit more green than it should have. It is closer to a kind of a darkened blue-green than should be. I would have used a kind of royal blue (#3b75da) which even Minestrone agrees, but in the interest of a compromise ordinary light blue will do. Our praxis use even kinds of darkened blue-green, but almost everybody agrees that it should be some kind of light blue (ordinary light blue, azure, royal blue, etc.).
• For the colour of the 3rd band of the Flag, I do not understand why dark blue is being used, and why have you (as a beginning of compromise) not even used ordinary blue (#0000FF) nor medium blue (#0000CD). The colour you asked me to leave on the Flag (#2A4ECD) is a lighter and clearer kind of a cerulean blue (#2A52BE).
• I think that it is good of you to ask of us for a compromise. But for some things pushing for a compromise may produce false results. The opponent side is pushing for a navy/dark blue and giving them a darkened dark blue is not a good way to make a compromise.
• On the other side I compromised in order not to make too much of a disturbance for users who are clearly not interested about anything I contribute to the discussion. We cannot be just subjects of the Law nor can we be just subjects of praxis. I stood in the defence of the Law, and those practitioners that are at least trying to do the same. Manufactures of flags around the world cannot be exclusive interpreters of the praxis. In Croatia we have a handful of manufacturers but the world is a much bigger place so you are bound to come across some false readings.

Sources of Lupo, some of them are in the majority correct, but the one in which some folk cheer that had a strange variety of the new moon is not to be considered a valued source. That Flag on the Euro Commission site has so many mistakes that it is unusable too (when you download all 5 mb of the file anyone can see that it uses black bordering of the Crown, and three blue colours too.

Rainman 18:36, 27 December 2007 (UTC)

On the version done by Minestrone

The 3rd band of the Flag cannot be darker than those of 2nd and 4th section of CoA's Crown. The horns are to be red and the delimiters of the horn (if any) should also be red, the horns are not to be separated from the goat. The goat's outer ear is not to be portrayed as well as the "section" “under the tail” of the goat. I really don’t know why this hole is portrayed – that looks like it’s under the tail.

The main shield of the CoA (chequy patterned shield) should not enter into the red band of the Flag. The border used for the goat and in some other parts of the CoA should not have been used because it has in itself to much green. In almost all of the CoA representation of the leopards heads is much, much more yellow, and has not in itself even a hint of green. The mane of the leopard heads is not so dark, not in our praxis not by the first representation of the CoA. Nice to see that you can at last came to a bit of a compromise (by which I mean agreeing with Lupo on the blue band of the Flag).

When you draw you should think about aesthetics as well, so the six pointed Venus star in the 1st section of the Crown should be in the most similar place to the same six pointed Venus star in the 5th section of the Crown. The usage of the same colours of the Crown that correspond with #2A52BE (bottom band of the Flag) is not pleasant to the eye when using #0202B2 for that band.

Rainman 18:36, 27 December 2007 (UTC)

Heck no, you are not open to any kind of a compromise, you even didn't agree with Lupo (in the case of blue band/stripe of the Flag). You just had to make it even darker, hadn't you? Namely Minestrone deliberately darkened up Lupo's opening workspace proposal and use #00209F instead of #0202B2. I really don't know why would anybody take serious a man who rather uses some other standards of foreign countries France, EU, USA and preach about the use of the flag in our presidential palace – his flag use navy blue, which when photographed and printed in the newspapers looks lot like ordinary #0000FF blue. What is the Minestrone’s standard blue for the use at the screen? It is by his own statement the blue of the Flag of France. This is not a standard blue as it is not Pantone Reflex Blue. Most standard blue for the use on the screen is #0000FF, like it or not.

Rainman 23:11, 29 December 2007 (UTC)

On the new compromise – 3rd blue is necessary

I do not fool myself that my opinion must be the decisive one, but pushing for the darker colour of the blue band of the Flag is not a good way to do anything. Only the future will show who had been closer to the true colours. We must all bear in mind that these colours are “screen” colours and that their usage on paper (via print) is subject to different standard of colours. Still I can’t see any reason which contraire to the usage of same colour for the 1st, 3rd & 5th section of the Crown and for the bottom band of the Flag. There are many proofs to that colour schematic. I agree that there shouldn’t be a third blue colour but this is a part of our lives, compromises we make. This is the only way that a compromise might be foreseeable. When the blue colour of the Flag is agreed – then we can discuss the possibility of narrowing the blue colours of 1/3/5 section with those of 2/4 sections of the Crown. In the case of eventual narrowing of the blue colours 1/3/5 section should first came closer to the blue band of the Flag than 2/4. This is all of the wisdom that Law stipulated. Or we can leave the light blue, use the navy blue at its proper place and paint the blue band of the Flag with a third compromise colour that should be ordinary blue (not darker than dark blue what Lupo averaged). Third blue is acceptable to Minestrone (proof – his contribution to the workspace); it is acceptable to Suradnik13 (who defends that decree).

Rainman 18:36, 27 December 2007 (UTC)

your light blue color is simply not the right color. see other photos (on YOUR screen) and compare. --Minestrone 20:16, 27 December 2007 (UTC)

There are even lighter light blue colours in our praxis. Your kind of behaviour is unacceptable. Lupo suggested lighter light blue, and I meet his requirements, as I said before the colour should be blue – the same blue as used for bottom band of the Flag. Various sources used light blue, R-41 used azure and I used a kind of a royal blue (which you agreed). Lupo said lighten that up, and I did, that is all.

Shameful is your behaviour - meaning - stating that the discussion is closed because someone has not responded. Then furthering this method way up by doing this bussines on the 26th of December, on state holiday, Saint Stephen's day. Your behaviour is what is unacceptable. Admins are the one's who will decide, not you, not I.

Rainman 00:17, 28 December 2007 (UTC)

Conclusio

@Rainman: I have to say that your uploaded version is neither correct nor very attractive. Please stop misusing Wikipedia for your experiments. I refer to Croatian television, the media, etc. You won't see any such version of a flag as Rainman has posted it. --Minestrone 20:12, 27 December 2007 (UTC)

Once again, let us first solve the color problem of the stripes/bands. We can talk about the rest later. I think, this uploaded blue is inacceptable. --Minestrone 20:18, 27 December 2007 (UTC)

This is just your own oppinion, and trying to bash your opponents with a fist and not with intelligence. Why didn't you obey the rules of this discussion as set by Lupo. And your attempt to push the main shield (chequy arms) into the red band of the Flag is an a experiment gone bad. -- Rainman 00:22, 28 December 2007 (UTC)

Patience is not among your characteristics

Lupo is away till 2008-01-06. Can't you wait, and folow ispeci pa reci. For other users this means to cook something up before you say it and is very often used in Croatia to say in a proverbial way that one should think before speaking. -- Rainman 00:42, 28 December 2007 (UTC)

Flag of Croatia at UN

Current version on Commons

Workspace for experimenting

New proposal High resolution also available at the same page - where - Jackie Wolcott (right), Alternate Representative for Special Political Affairs of the Permanent Mission of the United States to the United Nations is portrayed. To describe for those who do not want to download. The higher resolution clearly shows the sameness of 1st, 3rd and 5th small shield in the Crown of the CoA with the third band from the top of the Flag. Furthermore it shows a nice blue color that is not at all dark (not in any way dark) but is shadowed by the man holding a folder. But also this man didn't shadow all of the third band of the Flag and it is clearly visible that a spike of unshadowed blue color exist (and is like I have previously described). To the right of the Flag of Croatia there is most conveniently the Flag of France. The blue stripe of the French Flag is clearly not the blue band of the Croatian Flag, and that is a fact (according to the Law and this picture, and many other sources). Flag of Belgium is furthermost left at this photo, and you can judge by your own eyes the closenes of French Flag blue with the black from the Belgian Flag. Photo has been taken on January 3rd, 2008. -- Rainman 03:20, 8 January 2008 (UTC)

Jure Grm, the creator of this animation thinks alike. And one of most prominent administrators on Croatian Wikipedia use simmilar colour schematic. Suradnik13 talked to that administrator who expressed to agree with my position on the Flag (even if he did so in a one short sentence). -- Rainman 02:29, 10 January 2008 (UTC)

You are totally weird, Rainman. I dont know why administrators doesnt block you. I don't want debate any more, because your why isn't normal. --Suradnik13 19:20, 10 January 2008 (UTC)

I guess it's time to add another discussion rule: discuss the flag and its colors, do not discuss (presumed) personal motives, and do not attack each other. Assume we all have the same goal, namely arriving at a graphic representation of the Croatian flag we all can agree on. The UN photo, although not ideal as an image of the whole flag, is still interesting. It's the first photo I see showing a flag that does not use the "light watery blue" for the 1st, 3rd, and 5th spikes of the crown but indeed uses a somewhat darker blue, which could (or could not :-) be the same as in the bottom stripe. Comments on the blues? (Let's leave aside the marten, the goat, and the rest. Let's first get those blues right.) Lupo 07:57, 11 January 2008 (UTC)

More of UN photographs and other media

When looking at the Press Briefings page you will see Croatian Flag a lot because Croatia is a non-permanent member of the Security Council of the United Nations (mandate: January 1^st 2008 to December 31^st 2009). In all cases when the left side (looking from the spectator) of the podium is photographed you will see the Croatian Flag. The flags on that side are placed in this order: Belgium, Burkina Faso, China, Croatia, France, Indonesia, Italy. This will be the order of flags until December 31^st 2008. Then the order will change because Belgium, Indonesia & Italy have a mandate until previously mentioned date. One of those images is when His Excellency Abdalmahmood Abdalhaleem Mohamad Permanent Representative of the Republic of Sudan to the United Nations briefs correspondents. -- Rainman 23:38, 16 January 2008 (UTC)

New development: UN Secretary General meet with Croatian President at 2007-09-28 and this picture has been made precisely at 18:32 (or 19:18:32). High resolution picture #155760 is available upon request at the e-mail listed on the web-page. -- Rainman 01:29, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

The photograph (but not exactly the same) from that occasion can be found [9]. -- Rainman 01:12, 15 February 2008 (UTC)

The order of flags from as of 12^th February 2008 is Burkina Faso, China, Croatia, France, Indonesia, Italy, Great Socialist People's Libyan Arab Jamahiriya (looking from ordinary left to ordinary right). -- Rainman 01:32, 14 February 2008 (UTC)

They call it the Stakeout - this is a name for that well known podium in the UN Security Council. UN has even video's of everything that is happening at that place here. -- Rainman 01:03, 16 February 2008 (UTC)

Another good preview of the blue colour on flags of France and Croatia Ricardo Alberto Arias, Permanent Representative of Panama to the United Nations and President of the Security Council (photo). -- Rainman 20:17, 16 February 2008 (UTC)

Image protected

I protected this file on the present version. I'm not taking a side, just asking to stop the edit warring. Patrícia ^msg 20:19, 19 January 2008 (UTC)

Is Minestrone abandoning claims?

I think that Minestrone abandoned his claims (of the colour blue) on the Croatian Flag being exactly the same as that of France. His last contribution to this discussion occured on 27^th of December 2007.

Even that contribution was pointless because of several reasons, the main being that his wishfull thinking and deliberate misinterpretation lead to claims of Croatian blue being the same as blue on the French flag. There are other reasons that I communicated to admins Lupo and PatríciaR.

Minestrone had not communicated with me either on his or mine talk page since 11^th of December 2007. at 09:36 (UTC) and that last communication was of dubious correctness.

His last real contribution occured on 17^th of December 2007. when he posted his proposal to the workspace.

Then he posted his proposal on 26^th of December 2007. to the main file (Flag of Croatia.svg), that is now locked. This move was not approved by the admin who opened the Workspace and the move has not been discussed at all.

The entire time he preasures by edit waring on the main file and civil ensign file. And when he reverts to his proposal - no explanation is given.

He has not been even warned to synchronize the dependent images.

I have offered another compromise on his talk page on 10^th of February 2008.

I hope that there would be an admin who would help us to put this story behind.

Rainman 00:49, 11 February 2008 (UTC)

Optimized colours

Same when printed and previewed (as much as possible).

Colours have been harmonized with Inkscape ver. 0.45.1, built: Mar 21 2007 (GNU - General Public License - programme).

Flag -  Croatia

Colour	R	G	B	Hex	Preview	C	M	Y	K
Red	230	23	23	#E61717		0	90	90	10
White	255	255	255	#FFFFFF		0	0	0	0
Blue	0	43	217	#002BD9		100	80	0	15

CoA -  Croatia

Colour	R	G	B	Hex	Preview	C	M	Y	K
Red	230	23	23	#E61717		0	90	90	10
White	255	255	255	#FFFFFF		0	0	0	0
Light blue	52	119	217	#3477D9		76	45	0	15
Navy blue	0	0	153	#000099		100	100	0	40
Yellow	255	250	0	#FFFA00		0	2	100	0
Dark yellow	255	199	0	#FFC700		0	22	100	0
Brown	102	61	25	#663D19		0	40	75	60
Border (Marten)	97	58	34	#613A22		0	40	65	62
Mane (Leopard)	204	163	0	#CCA300		0	20	100	20
Eye (Goat)	102	76	0	#664C00		0	25	100	60
Border (Horns)	204	0	0	#CC0000		0	100	100	20
Notchs (Horns)	142	55	55	#8E3737		0	61	61	44

The colours can be checked out at Image:Flag of Croatia icon.svg.

Rainman 18:14, 11 February 2008 (UTC)

Some comparisons

Compare image of the Panama flag to pictures of Croatian Flag at UN. -- Rainman 01:28, 4 March 2008 (UTC)

Colour question from the original uploader to these days

Original uploader used #003E9F for the blue colour; this was supported by the second uploader. Neoneo13 came and darkened way too deeply to #021272. I suspect that Minestrone is in fact Neoneo13. Right about the time Neoneo13 ceased contributing Minestrone appeared and deals almost same topics.

I have used #002BD9 as a compromise because #0000FF is too bright and htmlcolour. That colour is even darker than ordinary blue and CMYK well balanced.

Sources for that are Presidential decision (uses #0000F7) and other sources that support 3B (three blue colours on the flag).

R-41 used #0051BA at one point. It is Mello Luchtenberg’s blue colour (only blue), which I have supported but Minestrone denied compromise on that. He was not satisfied that Mello Luchtenberg who deals a lot with flags uses that colour nor he was satisfied with the fact that even Zeljko Heimer pointed in Mello's way when dealing with the specific colouring.

Lupo first pointed out that Croatian Ministry of Foreign Affairs uses #0066B3, but I was foolish and dismissed that info. Other discussants did as well. Even if this is too green it shows that such dark colours are not acceptable.

Minestrone hadn't synchronized, hadn't abided the rules for discussion as set by Lupo. Minestrone proclaimed the discussion's conclusion before the admin's opinion, and so much more. Including reverting without explanation, without any sentence about rationales...

Minestrone insisted that the colours as set by Neoneo13 must not be changed then received some help to formulate that blue stripe on the Croatian flag should be the same blue as on Flag of France (#00209F).

At one time Minestrone preached about the rules claiming that I started everything. But this is not true, Neoneo13 (Minestrone) started everything when disrupted the blue colour of original uploader. He wants me to accept the rules of not changing anything before discussed it. I have respected those rules, discussed most thoroughly and received instructions from Denelson83 on synchronization and as a greatest proof received helpful hints from Nightstallion (the original uploader).

The original uploader used a colour which is most similar to #0038A8 which Mello uses for the Netherlands.

Rainman 01:56, 23 February 2008 (UTC)

Some colours which were used for this flag

Colour	R	G	B	Hex	Preview
Nightstallion	0	62	159	#003E9F
Neoneo13	2	18	114	#021272
Presidential Decision (PD)	0	0	247	#0000F7
Luchtenberg - HR	0	81	186	#0051BA
Rainman source: PD	0	43	217	#002BD9
Minestrone (France)	0	32	159	#00209F
Jure Grm	0	102	204	#0066CC
CRO MFA 1	0	106	190	#006ABE
CRO MFA 2	0	102	179	#0066B3
Luchtenberg - NL*	0	56	168	#0038A8

* For comparison only - comparison to Nightstallion mainly.

Rainman 23:20, 2 March 2008 (UTC)

Finalization

flagid uses B for Croatia, B+ for Serbia and B++ for Slovenia.

Mello uses a colour (#0051BA) which is (not strictly) between Luxembourg and the Netherlands but definately lighter than the Netherlands (#0038A8). I think that Zeljko wrote on 22nd of July 2004 something like this "...colours are, I blieve, provided more or less in full..." for the Mello determined colours.

Nato in its brochure Security through Partnership used a colour schematic where 1st, 3rd and 5th section (small shield) of the "Crown" (above the main checkered shield) is exactly the same as the colour of the third band/stripe of the flag (looking from the top). The picture is scalable and can be found at the page 21 of the English version brochure. There is also a free CD - NATO Map Game.

This colour schematic is used at UN also. Better resolution available upon request from the Photo Library of UN (instructions here).

Zeljko in his science paper "Naval Ensigns of the east Adriatic" used at page 20 the same simmilarity as do UN and NATO. To repeat - Zeljko said that Mello's colours should be used. This is fine when we are talking about the blue colour, but not when we are talking about the red colour.

Mello used as a main colour source the approximate RGB colours which are also based on the pantone colours that are given in “Album des pavillons nationaux et des marques distinctives” / “National flags and distinctive markings”.

Sections (1, 3 & 5) of the Crown should be of the same colour as the blue band/stripe of the flag.

Nevertheless that all of those examples have certain errors it is clear that the colour which was before the edit-war and in fact started the debate should be changed.

If this request cannot be the basis for a compromise then we could use 3B scheme (three blue colours - two for the CoA and one average blue for the blue stripe/band) but this should be the last resort in seeking a proper colours for this flag.

Rainman 01:42, 17 March 2008 (UTC)

President Bush visit to Croatia

Photo gallery of the top (or one of the "greatest") portals in Croatia under the title GEORGE BUSH U ZAGREBU http://www.net.hr/arhiva/fotogalerije/ -- Rainman 21:51, 27 April 2008 (UTC)

Especially in front of the Zagreb Airport and http://www.net.hr/2008/04/05/0082007.28.jpg which is No. 6 from 31 or the previously mentioned photo gallery. -- Rainman 22:48, 28 April 2008 (UTC)

Some of the sources

Since nobody reads the sources under Image:Flag of Croatia for discussion.svg here are them:

1. from pro.corbis.com
2. from about-croatia.com
3. from bigfoto.com
4. from stickergiant.com
5. from embassyflag.com (various)
6. from fotosearch.com
7. from worldofstock.com
8. from predsjednik.hr
9. from nn.hr - Presidential decree
10. Image:Ešalon pripadnika HRZ (Dan državnosti).jpg among from Category:Military of Croatia
11. from pro.corbis.com
12. Image:Zupanije.gif flags of the counties and the Republic of Croatia
13. from UN.org
14. from UN.org (between China and France)
15. from UN.org (high res available via e-mail from UN)

Rainman 23:10, 27 April 2008 (UTC)

Government of Croatia website's depiction of flag

The Government of Croatia's webpage, linked here: [10], displays different colours than those used in the pictures the above section shown by Rainman.--R-41 22:21, 30 April 2008 (UTC)

This is not a good enough reason to jeopardize the compromise that has been reached. Government of Croatia is not the institution responsible for Symbols of Croatia. The Government has no jurisdiction over those matters. And most certainly not some webmaster who took the copyrighted image from http://www.flags.net/CROA.htm which is an authorship (work of an author) of Graham Bartram. All about the jurisdiction can be read in my response to Lokal_Profil at Image talk:Presidential Flag of the Republic of Croatia.jpg. -- Rainman 23:21, 30 April 2008 (UTC)

Government of Croatia is not the institution responsible for Symbols of Croatia. :))))

Obvious, Rainman is responsible for those symbols,.... and WIPO of course --Suradnik13 11:02, 1 May 2008 (UTC)

The current flag is fine ;) --Minestrone 16:49, 1 May 2008 (UTC)

Rainman, the Croatian parliament IS PART of the the Croatian government. To everyone, I say that the government may be showing an incorrect flag, I don't know, but they ARE showing it with those colours. I have seen pictures of the Croatian flag in use by the army, etc. which show lighter hues of blue for the tricolour, but I've seen other pictures of the flag with darker hues. The best thing to do to solve all of this, is for someone to e-mail the Croatian government and ask if someone can explain what the exact hues of colour the Croatian flag uses. I do not speak Croatian and I do not want to bother them by having to get a translator to explain the colours, if someone who speaks Croatian can ask and then get the response and then explain the colours stated by the government on this discussion board, that would be very useful. Furthermore, from examining various sources on the web, I believe that there are two versions of the Croatian flag. One has a coat of arms with both a white and a red rim around it while the 2nd version - a simplified one - has only a red rim around it. A second version of the flag would be useful to avoid disputes, as both the double rimmed and single rimmed versions of the flag are used.--R-41 18:28, 1 May 2008 (UTC)

R-41, if you feel that there are different versions, and that they should be discussed, please use Image:Flag of Croatia for discussion.svg for that purpose. As you can understand from the length of the discussion on this page, this is the wrong file to "be bold". Will you agree to go through the discussion before changing anything else?

To all: Commons is open to have several versions of files, we're not running out of disk space. Edit warring on any namespace is unacceptable and this image has seen way to much of it. From what I see from the file history, this version, by user Denelson83, is the last consensual one. This should be the starting point for your discussion. I am not unprotecting this file until there is an agreement between you. You may go to COM:AN/B to have this decision of mine reviewed, even rebutted, but I stand by what I'm stating now, again: edit warring is unacceptable behaviour, and I'll protect any file, for any period of time, to prevent further disruption. Please think of all the wikis that are using this file. Regards, Patrícia ^msg 17:03, 5 May 2008 (UTC)

PatricaR, now that I blocked the main belligerent in this and other flag images, the discussion should go on fine. User:Zscout370 ^{(Return fire)} 19:41, 5 May 2008 (UTC)

Panthera pardus!? ROTFLMAO!!!

In the description of the flag, you mentioned that it contains a depiction of Panthera pardus - the leopard. It most certainly does not. First of all, every single one of the crowned heads in the Dalmatian coat of arms has a mane. Lions have manes, leopards do NOT. Second, the term "leopard" means "lion en face" in heraldic parlance. The animal in the coat of arms is Panthera leo - the lion.

Need columns

Can you enclose the translations of "flag of Croatia" in the following code?

<div style="column-count: 3; -moz-column-count: 3;">
(Translations)
</div>

Thanks.

-- Denelson83 (talk) 06:53, 28 November 2008 (UTC)

Kategorije

{{Editprotected}}

• +[Category:Flags with three horizontal stripes of blue, red and white colour combination]
• [Category:SVG flags] → [Category:SVG flags - Croatia]

Homo lupus (talk) 00:11, 1 June 2009 (UTC)

 Done. Multichill (talk) 11:10, 1 June 2009 (UTC)

new cat

I'm sorting Category:SVG sovereign state flags alphabetically. Please edit cat tag to "Category:SVG sovereign state flags|Croatia" Fry1989 (talk) 23:29, 17 January 2011 (UTC)

 Done --ZooFari 01:48, 18 January 2011 (UTC)

request

{{editprotected}} Please change "Please use Image:Flag of Croatia icon.svg (of 2:3 ratio)" to "Please use File:Civil Ensign of Croatia.svg (of 2:3 ratio)" due do deleted image~. Thanks Bulwersator (talk) 17:49, 3 August 2011 (UTC)

 Done -- Common Good (talk) 18:17, 4 August 2011 (UTC)

Change category

Can someone with matching rights please change the category Category:Flags with three horizontal stripes of blue, red and white colour combination (now a redirect) to Category:Flags with three horizontal stripes of blue, red and white color combination?

Please combine the following categories

Can someone combine the categories: Flags with one crescent and Flags with white crescents to Flags with one white crescent, and Flags with six-pointed stars and Flags with two yellow stars to Flags with two yellow six-pointed stars? Cycn (talk) 07:17, 14 March 2013 (UTC)

Simplify

{{Editprotected}}

At File:Flag of Croatia (simplified).svg I uploaded a simplified version of the flag of Croatia, which has an SVG code reduced by half, and has some odd CSS classes converted to "fill" attributes. I also got rid of the 405129×202564px viewBox, which led to inexact stripe sizes (height 199.999px instead of 200px, for example). Still, over two thirds of the code is due to the Istrian goat.

Can an admin please replace this file with the file mentioned above? SiBr₄ (talk) 18:34, 8 November 2013 (UTC)

 Done −ebraminio^talk 13:48, 9 November 2013 (UTC)

Category

{{Editprotected}}

Can this file's protection level please be changed to upload protection as opposed to full protection, so the file page can be edited by non-admins? I'd like to make some changes to the file's categorization. SiBr₄ (talk) 21:39, 10 June 2015 (UTC)

@SirBr4: Just post the proposed changes here. --Hedwig in Washington ^(mail?) 01:20, 18 July 2015 (UTC)

• Remove Category:Flags with six-pointed stars and Category:Flags with two yellow stars and add Category:Flags with two yellow six-pointed stars
• Remove Category:Flags with one crescent and Category:Flags with white crescents and add Category:Flags with one white crescent
• Remove Category:Blue, red, white, yellow flags and add Category:Black, blue, red, white, yellow flags (the marten is black, as are the outlines of the other charges)
• Remove Category:Flags with crowned lions and add Category:Flags with three crowns and Category:Flags with leopards (the animals in the Dalmatia arms are leopards, not lions)
• Add Category:Flags with checkered patterns
• Add Category:Flags with martens
• Add Category:Flags with animals for the Istrian goat (since there is no Category:Flags with goats, per Commons:Categories#Exception for images with more categorized subjects)
• Add {{DEFAULTSORT:Croatia}}

Though is there any good reason to not just unprotect the file page, as the file itself can still be protected from reuploads separately? SiBr₄ (talk) 15:15, 18 July 2015 (UTC)

 Changes done. This flag is used on at least a few hundred wiki-pages. You can certainly ask a bigger audience at Com:AN/B. Best, --Hedwig in Washington ^(mail?) 03:40, 19 July 2015 (UTC)

Valid

{{Edit request}} Please add a row |other fields={{igen|C|v|+}} to {{information}}, and remove {{CorelDraw}}. 89.204.138.127 18:45, 10 July 2016 (UTC)

 Done INeverCry 01:51, 14 July 2016 (UTC)

Correction request

{{Edit request}}

1. Remove the {{CorelDraw}} from the line |Permission=
2. Change the |other fields={{igen|C|v|+}} to |other fields={{igen|D|+|s=f}}

sarang♥사랑 08:42, 31 January 2017 (UTC)

 Done Awesome! Thank you! jdx ^Re: 16:47, 12 March 2017 (UTC)

Colors Istria and Slavonia

{{Edit request}} http://www.sabor.hr/lgs.axd?t=16&id=19045 by the website of the Croatian Sabor, the Coat of Istria and Slavonia look different. --MateoKatanaCRO (talk) 19:02, 12 February 2018 (UTC)

There is no need for this change. These elements are described in article 7 of Law on Coat of Arms, Flag and Anthem of the Republic of Croatia and Flag and Presidential sash of the President of the Republic of Croatia. Law has been published in Narodne novine (official gazette of the Republic of Croatia) no. 55/1990, 26/1993 and 29/1994) Since then, there's no changes.--Ma▀▄Ga 17:39, 14 February 2018 (UTC)

Category #2

{{Edit request}} Add you please add:

• Category:SVG flags of the United Nations member states - 1992|Croatia
• Category:SVG flags of the nations at the Olympics by NOC recognition - 1993|Croatia

Thanks. RainbowSilver2ndBackup (talk) 00:10, 8 December 2018 (UTC)

 Done -- User: Perhelion 03:21, 24 February 2019 (UTC)

Categories

{{Edit request}} This should go in Category:National flag of Croatia. — Preceding unsigned comment was added by 86.173.239.113 (talk) 11:51, 2 July 2019 (UTC)

 Done --Majora (talk) 03:11, 5 July 2019 (UTC)

Category Add request

{{Edit request}}

Please add the following: [[Category:SVG flags with an aspect ratio of 2:1]]. -- Sangjinhwa (talk) 05:25, 8 September 2019 (UTC)

 Done -- User: Perhelion 15:25, 10 September 2019 (UTC)

Source

The link is down, here the one that works: [11] --Koreanovsky (talk) 19:25, 19 February 2020 (UTC)

Color combination category

{{Edit request}} Could you please move this image from Category:Flags with three horizontal stripes of blue, red and white color combination to Category:Flags with three horizontal stripes of red, white and blue color combination? The colors in those categories are read from top to bottom, e.g. the Dutch flag is in that category instead of the one this flag is now. Pennenetui3000 (talk) 20:14, 26 February 2020 (UTC)

 Done Thank you! – Kwj2772 (talk) 13:34, 18 March 2020 (UTC)

Edit request

Can the red be made darker, because it is according to the sources of the Croatian government?

• [12]
• [13]

--Sakiv (talk) 02:29, 28 February 2020 (UTC)

@MaGa: --Sakiv (talk) 00:53, 2 March 2020 (UTC)

None of color can't be corrected according to some photos. It is one of basics of graphic profession. Colors of Croatian flag was exactly given in Decision of Parliament, and drawing was made precisely according to Decision. Archived page with Decision can be seen here.-- Ma▀▄Ga 08:34, 3 March 2020 (UTC)

Transfer

{{Editrequest}} Could this be transferred from Category:SVG sovereign state flags, Category:SVG flags of Croatia and Category:National flag of Croatia to Category:SVG national flags of Croatia? — Preceding unsigned comment was added by 81.99.162.2 (talk) 14:09, 10 May 2022 (UTC)

 Done MorganKevinJ^(talk) 18:21, 13 May 2022 (UTC)

Request to update English description

Could the English description be updated to "Flag of Croatia"? Currently on the English Wikipedia it is showing as "It is easy to put a border around this flag image".

Thanks in advance, Epolk (talk) 18:34, 3 October 2022 (UTC)

Category:SVG national flag of Croatia

Add this category, please. Plaga med (talk) 18:30, 12 March 2024 (UTC)