User talk:Patrickneil
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Last archived October 24, 2023 |
I don't read my Commons Talk regularly, so if its urgent, please leave a message on my English talk page-
I will respond wherever is fastest, but prefer file talk pages -
I can be reached by email if it is necessary to keep a message off Wikipedia
Seal of Virginia[edit]
Good day, so i dig out the sources i had saved for this projet, i remember being part of the graphics lab request list. and even from the start seemed to not be any consencus as how this should look. the original skecth i made had a side looking face so it must have been on the table at some point.(see last image on the link) [Imgur gallery seal of virginia ]
so i could give it a new try but i would need to know he specific changes that would be needed, or at least a list of all the things people are complaining about. -LadyofHats (talk) 19:22, 29 March 2023 (UTC)
- Replied at your talk page! -- Patrick, oѺ∞ 01:30, 30 March 2023 (UTC)
Seal of Virginia[edit]
seal of Virginia Skunkcrew (talk) 00:47, 30 March 2023 (UTC)
- why did you reverted the seal and flag to the wrong ones
- the one that was previousley used was the official ones you cant just change the artwork if the right one I saposed to look the way it is Skunkcrew (talk) 00:48, 30 March 2023 (UTC)
- The trouble is the sources I thought were "official" may have just taken their images from Wikipedia. If you have a reliable source to show what is "official", then by all means, post it here or in the ongoing discussion at en:Talk:Flag and seal of Virginia. -- Patrick, oѺ∞ 01:36, 30 March 2023 (UTC)
- https://www.commonwealth.virginia.gov/official-documents/seals-of-the-commonwealth/
- their are seals on their gov website you can also contact the secratary of state for accurate dipictions of the seal Skunkcrew (talk) 22:32, 30 March 2023 (UTC)
- So here is the problem. That link leads to a PDF with rules. Rule #2 is "The Seals shall only be displayed or reproduced in one-color as line graphics or in full color as adopted by the Art Commission." I want the full color, so I go to the Art Commission's website. I scroll to the very bottom. And bam, there is the seal, copied from Wikipedia, originally from the Xrmap collection last updated circa 2005 which went offline circa 2013. Do you see how that is circular? What I really want to do is track down images of the seal that legislators were looking at in 1903 when they wrote down what it should look like, or in 1950 when they copy/pasted that language into law. Because having this flag from Xrmap on Wikipedia has tainted the online pool and perhaps even reinforced a design that has errors. The most glaring error to me, is that the Amazonian warrior's helmet is supposed to have a red plume on top. Instead, I think to save on ink, some time in the mid-20th century, both parts of the helmet got colored the same baby blue as her toga, and it's a lazy mistake that's seemingly been perpetuated for decades. Same with tyrant's breastplate armor getting colored one solid purple. Maybe Wikipedia should have the right colors? Maybe it should particularly if the state itself is sourcing its seal from Wikipedia? -- Patrick, oѺ∞ 13:59, 31 March 2023 (UTC)
- then contact the secratary of state for what the official seal should look like and send the disighn that you uploaded to see if that is accurate Skunkcrew (talk) 21:56, 31 March 2023 (UTC)
- also the flag has virtue facing down insted of facing right Skunkcrew (talk) 19:34, 1 April 2023 (UTC)
- Two updates. First, the flag and the seal match again, so that last critique is now fixed. Second, I did telephone John J. Byxbe, the Director of Business Services in charge of commercial use of state seal, last week. And he did send me a line art EPS file of the seal dated 2015. I'm happy to share it, but I immediately see several differences between that and the version that the Secretary of the Commonwealth's own website uses at the bottom of each page. So how do I say "that's the official one" unequivocally? So far, I've come to the horrific realization that there may not be a standard version currently available. John did recommend contacting the Library of Virginia's archives room, and I can update again if they ever reply to my voicemail. -- Patrick, oѺ∞ 17:52, 3 April 2023 (UTC)
- I have seen many places with the seal and all of them look like the one previously used
- I also see with ones that are in color the helmate is always blue
- I also found a website that is a agency of the virginia government that sells the virginia flag https://store-dgs-virginia-gov.3dcartstores.com/ all the things im finding points that the seal most be dapicted in a similar way the previous one on Wikipedia was like Skunkcrew (talk) 13:51, 7 April 2023 (UTC)
- i also found this https://web.archive.org/web/20070803155802/http://legis.state.va.us/1_cap_class/6-8/6_8_emb_symb.html Skunkcrew (talk) 13:56, 7 April 2023 (UTC)
- I laid out what I see as the timeline at File talk:Flag of Virginia.svg. Again, I think the versions visible on those links were copied from other parts of the internet, and are part of a cycle of lazy coloring being perpetuated. What I think has happened is a simplified version got blown up to a complex version, it's like you start with a photo, then you draw that image with crayons, and take a photo of the drawing. Even if you want the crummy drawing, we could have colors like this. What we could use is someone in Richmond who can investigate offline at the state library, because I've reached a bit of a dead end as to what's available online. -- Patrick, oѺ∞ 18:49, 10 April 2023 (UTC)
- https://www.governor.virginia.gov/constituent-services/flag-information/
- look at the protocol pdf it shows the seal on the pdf I believe the seal must resemble that Skunkcrew (talk) 21:51, 12 April 2023 (UTC)
- https://gunstonhall.org/learn/learning-from-home/investigating-primary-sources/creating-a-seal/ Skunkcrew (talk) 13:39, 14 April 2023 (UTC)
- you should revert the seal back to the original one
- its not right for you to graphically alter a design that virginia has been using even beffore wikipedia look at every document and any official depiction of the seal
- you have violated the seal Skunkcrew (talk) 21:07, 23 October 2023 (UTC)
- I guess I don't see what the big deal is at this point. Last month I went about aligning the more artistic version from LadyofHats with the positions of one used by FORTISVEX, which is very similar to the Xrmap version, which I tend to think is derived from something like that Gunstonhall.org site you link to. So what is the specific complaint? That it looks too real?
- If you want to quibble with something, I can understand the helmet being a change. I think the design is supposed to be a frond on top, but I'm happy to be shown I'm wrong. I'll even explain how to show me I'm wrong. To do that, we need to get a photo of the bronze seal that is hanging on the doors of the General Assembly in Richmond and confirm that that bronze relief is cast from the mold made by Charles Keck in 1931. Better yet would be a photo of the mold itself. The actual seal, you have to keep in mind, is a three dimensional object, and what we're discussing are just 2D representations of it. -- Patrick Neil, oѺ∞/Talk 16:24, 24 October 2023 (UTC)
- I laid out what I see as the timeline at File talk:Flag of Virginia.svg. Again, I think the versions visible on those links were copied from other parts of the internet, and are part of a cycle of lazy coloring being perpetuated. What I think has happened is a simplified version got blown up to a complex version, it's like you start with a photo, then you draw that image with crayons, and take a photo of the drawing. Even if you want the crummy drawing, we could have colors like this. What we could use is someone in Richmond who can investigate offline at the state library, because I've reached a bit of a dead end as to what's available online. -- Patrick, oѺ∞ 18:49, 10 April 2023 (UTC)
- i also found this https://web.archive.org/web/20070803155802/http://legis.state.va.us/1_cap_class/6-8/6_8_emb_symb.html Skunkcrew (talk) 13:56, 7 April 2023 (UTC)
- Two updates. First, the flag and the seal match again, so that last critique is now fixed. Second, I did telephone John J. Byxbe, the Director of Business Services in charge of commercial use of state seal, last week. And he did send me a line art EPS file of the seal dated 2015. I'm happy to share it, but I immediately see several differences between that and the version that the Secretary of the Commonwealth's own website uses at the bottom of each page. So how do I say "that's the official one" unequivocally? So far, I've come to the horrific realization that there may not be a standard version currently available. John did recommend contacting the Library of Virginia's archives room, and I can update again if they ever reply to my voicemail. -- Patrick, oѺ∞ 17:52, 3 April 2023 (UTC)
- So here is the problem. That link leads to a PDF with rules. Rule #2 is "The Seals shall only be displayed or reproduced in one-color as line graphics or in full color as adopted by the Art Commission." I want the full color, so I go to the Art Commission's website. I scroll to the very bottom. And bam, there is the seal, copied from Wikipedia, originally from the Xrmap collection last updated circa 2005 which went offline circa 2013. Do you see how that is circular? What I really want to do is track down images of the seal that legislators were looking at in 1903 when they wrote down what it should look like, or in 1950 when they copy/pasted that language into law. Because having this flag from Xrmap on Wikipedia has tainted the online pool and perhaps even reinforced a design that has errors. The most glaring error to me, is that the Amazonian warrior's helmet is supposed to have a red plume on top. Instead, I think to save on ink, some time in the mid-20th century, both parts of the helmet got colored the same baby blue as her toga, and it's a lazy mistake that's seemingly been perpetuated for decades. Same with tyrant's breastplate armor getting colored one solid purple. Maybe Wikipedia should have the right colors? Maybe it should particularly if the state itself is sourcing its seal from Wikipedia? -- Patrick, oѺ∞ 13:59, 31 March 2023 (UTC)
- The trouble is the sources I thought were "official" may have just taken their images from Wikipedia. If you have a reliable source to show what is "official", then by all means, post it here or in the ongoing discussion at en:Talk:Flag and seal of Virginia. -- Patrick, oѺ∞ 01:36, 30 March 2023 (UTC)
Dear Patrickneil, please could you also update this map with Sweden? It's a historic enlargement, since all five Scandinavian countries are NATO members now. Sweden's join is as historic as Finland's join (Denmark, Iceland and Norway were founding members in 1949). This would be very nice (this map also enjoys good use throughout Wikipedia). Groete. -- 
SpesBona 14:10, 12 March 2024 (UTC)
- I'll made File:NATO2024.jpg if you want to use it for an update of the .gif, since I don't know how to update a .gif. I also want to note that for 2023 the State of Palestina disappeared from the map. Groete. --
SpesBona 19:35, 12 March 2024 (UTC)
Hello Patrickneil, thank you for updating the file. While I appreciate that you implemented the proposed Esri Color Sceme, you also changed the fonts of the numbers from Arial to Cascadia Mono. I think there has to be a consensus first as to whether or not to change the text of the font and for which one to use. I think a file discussion is needed for this. 72.128.66.229 01:58, 20 March 2024 (UTC)
- Ok, let's discuss. What's the issue with the font? Arial is proprietary and is more curvy, Cascadia Code is open source and is less. To me, that makes it better for this purpose.-- Patrick Neil, oѺ∞/Talk 21:40, 20 March 2024 (UTC)
- A quick thing I could do, I'll say, would be to remove the little tails on the 4s and the 7 and possibly give the 7 a slash, in deference to the European style. That looks like this. Would that be better? -- Patrick Neil, oѺ∞/Talk 13:46, 21 March 2024 (UTC)