User talk:Durova/Archive 6

FP Promotion

★ This image has been promoted to Featured picture! ★ The image File:Joan of Arc WWI lithograph2.jpg, that you nominated on Commons:Featured picture candidates/File:Joan of Arc WWI lithograph2.jpg has been promoted. Thank you for your contribution. If you would like to nominate another image, please do so.

/FPCBot (talk) 10:43, 25 October 2009 (UTC)

FP Nomination

Nomination Notification

G'day! I love File:Puck cover2.jpg, that you've uploaded to Commons, so I've nominated it for Featured Picture status. Its nomination is at Commons:Featured picture candidates/File:Puck cover2.jpg. Best of luck! Sarcastic ShockwaveLover (talk) 10:48, 12 May 2009 (UTC)

Thank you very much. :) Durova (talk) 16:25, 25 October 2009 (UTC)

Honestly, it's a pleasure, and indeed an honour, to be able to nominate such great works. Please, keep up your brilliant work. Sarcastic ShockwaveLover (talk) 17:22, 25 October 2009 (UTC)

FP Promotion

★ This image has been promoted to Featured picture! ★ The image File:Helen KellerA.jpg, that you nominated on Commons:Featured picture candidates/File:Helen KellerA.jpg has been promoted. Thank you for your contribution. If you would like to nominate another image, please do so.

/FPCBot (talk) 00:03, 29 October 2009 (UTC)

FP Promotion

★ This image has been promoted to Featured picture! ★ The image File:Delaware Bay Vinckeboons 14.jpg, that you nominated on Commons:Featured picture candidates/File:Delaware Bay Vinckeboons 14.jpg has been promoted. Thank you for your contribution. If you would like to nominate another image, please do so.

/FPCBot (talk) 22:30, 29 October 2009 (UTC)

Re

I dont like conflicts either, but it really sad, that one of the top image contributors left the project. I just want that somebody clean up these images , 1; 2; 3 4 That's my aim. M.K. (talk) 10:02, 1 November 2009 (UTC)

Put a few hours into the first of these. It's got a lot of damage. Would there be any chance of getting a higher resolution uncompressed file of the others? It'd take nearly the same amount of work to restore a 10MB TIFF file as a compressed and artifacted JPEG. If we had TIFFs then perhaps these could be considered for valued image or featured picture on some WMF projects. Durova (talk) 00:08, 2 November 2009 (UTC)

Sadly this is the best that I have at this moment. Thanks for your efforts, much appreciated ! M.K. (talk) 08:21, 2 November 2009 (UTC)

Is there a time frame you need these by? Durova (talk) 14:55, 2 November 2009 (UTC)

Well, there is no specific date, but it would be nice to have those pic in reasonable time frame. All the best, M.K. (talk) 13:33, 3 November 2009 (UTC)

Naval Service

I noticed that you said you were in the navy on the POTD talk page. Out of curiosity, what did you do whilst you were serving? Sarcastic ShockwaveLover (talk) 10:37, 7 November 2009 (UTC)

Photographer's Mate. ;) Durova (talk) 16:51, 7 November 2009 (UTC)

I guessed as much. :P Are any of your naval photos here on Commons? Sarcastic ShockwaveLover (talk) 09:25, 8 November 2009 (UTC)

Nah, spend more time here with historic stuff. :) Thank you for asking. Durova (talk) 17:22, 8 November 2009 (UTC)

I'm always interested to learn more about the inhabitants of Commons. Sarcastic ShockwaveLover (talk) 12:28, 9 November 2009 (UTC)

FP Promotion

★ This image has been promoted to Featured picture! ★ The image File:Black Panther convention2.jpg, that you nominated on Commons:Featured picture candidates/File:Black Panther convention2.jpg has been promoted. Thank you for your contribution. If you would like to nominate another image, please do so.

/FPCBot (talk) 23:04, 9 November 2009 (UTC)

FP Promotion

★ This image has been promoted to Featured picture! ★ The image File:Prang's Valentine Cards2.jpg, that you nominated on Commons:Featured picture candidates/File:Prang's Valentine Cards2.jpg has been promoted. Thank you for your contribution. If you would like to nominate another image, please do so.

/FPCBot (talk) 23:13, 9 November 2009 (UTC)

FP Nomination

Hi, I have no problem with your comment and re-edit. I prefer not to intervene with user comments while the voting continues. FP status is good but not a life and death Question for me. So I watch and see what happens. I learn from user comments.

Btw.

1. If you look at tineye search you can see that my version is not as problematic as you stated. It is one of the best available on web.
2. The editings was stated by putting an image link to original.
3. I prefer the border cement cropped since I believe it distracts attention from the main subject. It is not part of the "mosaic art" as Takabeg states. It just states that that part was destroyed through history.
4. The colors of original is faded and skewed toward cold colors. A bit saturation and warmth may is needed for your version. The skin tone looks too gray and unhealthy for me.
5. I agree with your comment on un-even light and appreciate your efforts to correct it. But for me it was a minor issue.
6. I will support your version if you do a cropping.

Best Regards, --Nevit Dilmen (talk) 08:34, 10 November 2009 (UTC)

Rename/deletion help

Could you please help at User_talk:Juliancolton#Rename_request? I've been through a deletion request, am now trying to get a file renamed, but I just don't know how these processes are "suppoed to work" on Commons. The problem is that there is a file whose name causes it to masquerade as a mainstream English pronunciation file, when in fact it is an Italian who recorded the pronunciation with odd stress and tone that aren't part of English in any country where it's spoken. Wiktionary has millions of words to contend with, so we use standards for naming that I can't see to get across to the person who closed the deletion attempt. --EncycloPetey (talk) 18:22, 11 November 2009 (UTC)

Question

Well, actually two of them.

1) Is it worth asking for this to be restored? Or is it too far gone?

2) Are there any websites you'd recommend for someone looking to learn more about image editing/restoration, and perhaps develop some skill in that area?

Yours, Sarcastic ShockwaveLover (talk) 22:01, 11 November 2009 (UTC)

It would be possible to restore it, although I'd hesitate to interfere with scientific astronomy unless a really high quality scan were available and comparison files of other satellite images of the same portion of sky. There isn't a whole lot on the Internet about this (except at the level of retouching old family photographs), although you might want to subscribe to my blog. Many of the WMF editors who do this seriously communicate on Skype, which is a very good client for media collaboration. Email me for my Skype ID anytime. :) Durova (talk) 17:42, 14 November 2009 (UTC)

FP Promotion

★ This image has been promoted to Featured picture! ★ The image File:Gaucho1868b.jpg, that you nominated on Commons:Featured picture candidates/File:Gaucho1868b.jpg has been promoted. Thank you for your contribution. If you would like to nominate another image, please do so.

/FPCBot (talk) 08:01, 13 November 2009 (UTC)

FYI

Few days ago I emailed to Lycaon using Commons email. It was a really short email. I told him that he is one of the most valued Commons contributors and asked him to put everything behind and come back. I also asked him to say "hi" to Estrilda, So far I got no response.--Mbz1 (talk) 17:23, 14 November 2009 (UTC)

Thank you for the followup, and it's gracious of you to extend the olive branch. Let's hope they're okay. Durova (talk) 17:32, 14 November 2009 (UTC)

I desperately wish they talked to me. You know how hard I pressed Lycaon to explain to me how I harassed him. There were also some offline efforts to make us to have a conflict resolution, and I still do not know what have I done to him. He has refused to talk to me. Once he blocked me (you probably remember). It was the happiest day during my conflict with him because he talked to me then... I believe people should talk. If the only way to make him to talk to me, is me getting blocked, I do not mind even that (I need a break anyway ), and really I would have agreed for anything, if they came back, and talked to me, or... just came back.--Mbz1 (talk) 04:40, 15 November 2009 (UTC)

FP Promotion

★ This image has been promoted to Featured picture! ★ The image File:PalenqueAc.jpg, that you nominated on Commons:Featured picture candidates/File:PalenqueAc.jpg has been promoted. Thank you for your contribution. If you would like to nominate another image, please do so.

/FPCBot (talk) 00:02, 15 November 2009 (UTC)

FP Promotion

★ This image has been promoted to Featured picture! ★ The image File:Tropenmuseum Royal Tropical Institute Objectnumber 3444-7 Begrafenis bij plantageslaven2.jpg, that you nominated on Commons:Featured picture candidates/File:Tropenmuseum Royal Tropical Institute Objectnumber 3444-7 Begrafenis bij plantageslaven2.jpg has been promoted. Thank you for your contribution. If you would like to nominate another image, please do so.

/FPCBot (talk) 08:11, 19 November 2009 (UTC)

Ottoman heliograph

You are welcome :). We have a couple of user who follow all FPs and nominations in enwiki and commons, and they nominate a lot of images to be promoted. Significant part of them are your work, so it is us to thank you instead. For ottoman heliograph, see tr:Vikipedi:Seçkin resim adayları/Turkish heliograph at Huj2.jpg. Hope to see you at another nomination :) İyivikiler... ho? ni! 14:59, 20 November 2009 (UTC)

image

I don't see an image at File:Blake Wollstonecraft sketch1.tif, but I would like to :-) Is it just me or is there a problem with the upload? You might also be interested in what I've done with this image; I tried to lift the ink off the page for transcription, feel free to comment on how that could be improved. There are a pile of similar attempts in my recent contribs. Regards, cygnis insignis 21:53, 24 November 2009 (UTC)

[ec] :I just found the featured version as I continued looking through the category, nice one btw, I suppose the above is related to that. cygnis insignis 22:29, 24 November 2009 (UTC)

TIFF format is not yet fully compatible with WMF software. We only recently gained the ability to upload that format at all. For now, consider it mainly there for recordkeeping purposes. If a restored file needs further work it's invaluable to have a version available in uncompressed format without histogram changes. The WMF Deutschland is working on a compatibility initiative to improve TIFF support.

As things stand currently, TIFF files are still downloadable. That makes them useful for re-edits and printing.

Your work looks very good. This particular material is unusual and it's worthwhile to have both edits available in good resolution. The Library of Congress scanned the version I worked on from William Blake's original sketches. You've worked from a scan of the published version. It's wonderful when access is good enough that this can happen. :) Durova (talk) 22:01, 24 November 2009 (UTC)

I agree, I should have uploaded the original as well. The jpg file was taken from the online flippy at the source, for a merely satisfactory result with my limited access, if I wanted to be really thorough I would have grabbed the JP2 zip. The work contains a number of images, some are 'after Blake', so I wasn't putting a lot of effort into seeing them be accessioned correctly. I often need to grab images from files and had go the idea from somewhere that converting to png was a good thing, should I bother with the larger file or just upload as jpg or jp2 versions? Maybe I should be grabbing the tiff files when I think the highest quality is worthwhile. cygnis insignis 22:29, 24 November 2009 (UTC)

The institutional and scholarly communities are divided about restoration. So one thing that really helps is to always upload an unrestored version and link between restored and unrestored, along with detailed notes about the types of edits that have been performed. For the past several months I've also been uploading "partial restorations", which leaves the histogram and color balance alone while doing everything else. Occasionally another editor has followed with a better edit on that work. It's a practice which helps the wiki approach adapt to media editing. Durova (talk) 22:37, 24 November 2009 (UTC)

The first two sentences should be the universal principle and guideline on this, if it is not already, drawing attention to where I have failed to meet my own standards was a bit silly of me.

My experimentation, for works elsewhere, has tried to separate the page from the ink. Black on white is mostly unproblematic, tweaking the greyscale to roughly match the intent of the publisher, monochrome requires a bit more intervention into colour. I am mostly leaving full colour 'as is' for inclusion in transcriptions, leaving the background colour (the page) of the scan for some 'context' feels right. I'm planning on converting the Tales next year, I will be taking those versions much more seriously than Garnett's reproduction. Thanks for the replies, cygnis insignis 23:44, 24 November 2009 (UTC)

You're right: I should write up a best practices draft for this kind of thing. Getting pulled in a lot of directions. If you have the time, please consider leaving a word for an editor who goes by the username Awadewit at en:wiki. She has written about two dozen featured articles there, including the article that most directly relates to this. She's a doctoral candidate nearing the end of her dissertation and she sometimes uses restored WMF media in the undergraduate courses she teaches. Best regards and do keep in touch. :) Durova (talk) 02:29, 25 November 2009 (UTC)

Thanks for the recommendation, I will get in touch later. This has been very helpful, thanks for the interest and advice. I will let you know how I go with my tweaking and twiddling. I often find some interesting candidates for restoration, I will let you know about those too :-) Cheers, cygnis insignis 03:18, 25 November 2009 (UTC)

hi, thanks for your comment on the picture Inname van Godesberg - Capture and destruction of Godesburg in 1583 (Frans Hogenberg).jpg I'm really not that good with images, and wondered if there was something that could be done for this one to make it acceptable. ? Auntieruth55 (talk) 02:13, 26 November 2009 (UTC)

Link, please? Durova (talk) 15:56, 26 November 2009 (UTC)

Blog post

Hi! Thank you for the delightful post. I felt proud of our wiki and I hope it will be a good model for developing other wiki's. Recently one important issue on Turkish wiki is to write the articles that are directly related to the SR candidate. Although it is not a criteria at nominations, nominators try to start f.i. "heliograph" article before nominating the heliograph picture. That helps increase # of articles and this may be a good example for others. Your efforts for the growth of small wikis is also admirable. Thank you for that too. Please let me know if I can help somehow. İyivikiler... ho? ni! 09:28, 26 November 2009 (UTC)

FP Promotion

★ This image has been promoted to Featured picture! ★ The image File:Tropenmuseum Royal Tropical Institute Objectnumber 3348-19 Huizen aan het water in Coronie, vermo2.jpg, that you nominated on Commons:Featured picture candidates/File:Tropenmuseum Royal Tropical Institute Objectnumber 3348-19 Huizen aan het water in Coronie, vermo2.jpg has been promoted. Thank you for your contribution. If you would like to nominate another image, please do so.

/FPCBot (talk) 16:03, 28 November 2009 (UTC)

FP Nomination

Nomination Notification

G'day! I love File:AlfredPalmerM3tank1942b.jpg, that you've uploaded to Commons, so I've nominated it for Featured Picture status. Its nomination is at Commons:Featured picture candidates/File:AlfredPalmerM3tank1942b.jpg. Best of luck! Sarcastic ShockwaveLover (talk) 10:48, 12 May 2009 (UTC)

I've just started on that restoration, work's been getting in the way. :( Sarcastic ShockwaveLover (talk) 09:46, 1 December 2009 (UTC)

Thank you so much! That's very kind. :) Durova (talk) 17:38, 1 December 2009 (UTC)

FP Promotion

★ This image has been promoted to Featured picture! ★ The image File:Woodbridge isothermal chart3.jpg, that you nominated on Commons:Featured picture candidates/File:Woodbridge isothermal chart3.jpg has been promoted. Thank you for your contribution. If you would like to nominate another image, please do so.

/FPCBot (talk) 16:02, 1 December 2009 (UTC)

FP Promotion

★ This image has been promoted to Featured picture! ★ The image File:Yiddish WWI poster2.jpg, that you nominated on Commons:Featured picture candidates/File:Yiddish WWI poster2.jpg has been promoted. Thank you for your contribution. If you would like to nominate another image, please do so.

/FPCBot (talk) 00:01, 2 December 2009 (UTC)

Canvassing :-P

Hey, you and I keep bumping into each other and as I respect your opinion would you mind commenting here? Thanks! Tiptoety ^talk 06:38, 2 December 2009 (UTC)

Can I have rollback please?

Hello Durova! I hope life is treating you well. Would it be possible to give me rollback on Commons? Best, Angus McLellan (Talk) 20:01, 7 December 2009 (UTC)

Done. :) Durova (talk) 20:12, 7 December 2009 (UTC)

Thanks very much. Angus McLellan (Talk) 20:14, 7 December 2009 (UTC)

FP Promotion

★ This image has been promoted to Featured picture! ★ The image File:Lincoln conspirators execution2.jpg, that you nominated on Commons:Featured picture candidates/File:Lincoln conspirators execution2.jpg has been promoted. Thank you for your contribution. If you would like to nominate another image, please do so.

/FPCBot (talk) 16:02, 8 December 2009 (UTC)

FP Promotion

★ This image has been promoted to Featured picture! ★ The image File:Amsterdam Centraal Station2.jpg, that you nominated on Commons:Featured picture candidates/File:Amsterdam Centraal Station2.jpg has been promoted. Thank you for your contribution. If you would like to nominate another image, please do so.

/FPCBot (talk) 08:00, 9 December 2009 (UTC)

FP Promotion

★ This image has been promoted to Featured picture! ★ The image File:COLLECTIE TROPENMUSEUM 'Het verslepen van de steen 'Darodaro' voor de gestorven Saoenigeho van Bawamataloea Nias TMnr 1000095b.jpg, that you nominated on Commons:Featured picture candidates/File:COLLECTIE TROPENMUSEUM 'Het verslepen van de steen 'Darodaro' voor de gestorven Saoenigeho van Bawamataloea Nias TMnr 1000095b.jpg has been promoted. Thank you for your contribution. If you would like to nominate another image, please do so.

/FPCBot (talk) 16:01, 10 December 2009 (UTC)

Please add your name to the restorationists

Durova you have been one of Wikimedia commons best restorationists, especially with the tropenmuseum restoration. Would u please add a bit of information about your work and your interest on Commons:Meet our restorationists so that people might contact u in case they need some help in restorations and acknowledging your great effort on commons? Thank you, --Diaa abdelmoneim (talk) 08:03, 11 December 2009 (UTC)

Thank you for the invitation. That page was controversial when it was started earlier this year; has there been a new discussion about it recently? Durova (talk) 17:22, 11 December 2009 (UTC)

No but we have a long list of illustrators and now a list for restorationists. Why would it be bad to have your name there? --Diaa abdelmoneim (talk) 17:25, 11 December 2009 (UTC)

How about opening up a community discussion? It was tried without discussion before. And thank you again for your interest. :) Durova (talk) 18:25, 11 December 2009 (UTC)

Unedited version

File:Teheran US embassy propaganda grasp unedited.jpg

unedited version

Hi, I uploaded the unedited version of my picture and crosslinked it with the edited version. I didn´t know this is neccessary. Most of my pictures have corrected perspective/color/exposure/contrast. I thought that these alterations are generally accepted and need not be mentioned explicitly. Was I mistaken there? But shurely I should not upload unedited versions of all my pictures? Nikopol (talk) 00:41, 14 December 2009 (UTC)

It's a priority with historic featured pictures because it's one of the things that overcomes curators' hesitations. Thanks very much. :) Durova (talk) 03:44, 14 December 2009 (UTC)

FP Promotion

★ This image has been promoted to Featured picture! ★ The image File:Randolph Caldecott illustration2.jpg, that you nominated on Commons:Featured picture candidates/File:Randolph Caldecott illustration2.jpg has been promoted. Thank you for your contribution. If you would like to nominate another image, please do so.

/FPCBot (talk) 16:03, 15 December 2009 (UTC)

FP Promotion

★ This image has been promoted to Featured picture! ★ The image File:Vanity Fair June 1914b.jpg, that you nominated on Commons:Featured picture candidates/File:Vanity Fair June 1914b.jpg has been promoted. Thank you for your contribution. If you would like to nominate another image, please do so.

/FPCBot (talk) 08:26, 18 December 2009 (UTC)

FP Promotion

★ This image has been promoted to Featured picture! ★ The image File:Steeplechase2.jpg, that you nominated on Commons:Featured picture candidates/File:Steeplechase2.jpg has been promoted. Thank you for your contribution. If you would like to nominate another image, please do so.

/FPCBot (talk) 16:13, 18 December 2009 (UTC)

Map quality

Not sure where to ask this: can File:Map Venice MK1888.png be replaced by File:Karte Venedig MK1888.png? --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus ^Talk 00:25, 19 December 2009 (UTC)

Looks like a higher resolution and more legible version of the same thing. Please check to see where the low res version is in use and replace it, then nominate for deletion as superceded by the other. Durova (talk) 02:35, 19 December 2009 (UTC)

FP Promotion

★ This image has been promoted to Featured picture! ★ The image File:After the war a medal and maybe a job2.jpg, that you nominated on Commons:Featured picture candidates/File:After the war a medal and maybe a job2.jpg has been promoted. Thank you for your contribution. If you would like to nominate another image, please do so.

/FPCBot (talk) 16:00, 20 December 2009 (UTC)

FP Promotion

★ This image has been promoted to Featured picture! ★ The image File:COLLECTIE TROPENMUSEUM Portert van twee jonge Balinese danseressen TMnr 10004678b.jpg, that you nominated on Commons:Featured picture candidates/File:COLLECTIE TROPENMUSEUM Portert van twee jonge Balinese danseressen TMnr 10004678b.jpg has been promoted. Thank you for your contribution. If you would like to nominate another image, please do so.

/FPCBot (talk) 08:00, 22 December 2009 (UTC)

File:Wikipedia_scale_of_justice_1.jpg

Have you sought permission from the WMF for use of the Wikipedia puzzle globe in this image? If so, you may want to make a note of that in the image's description page. If not, you really should, or it may be subject to deletion on copyvio grounds. ++Lar: t/c 06:14, 23 December 2009 (UTC)

Good question. It's a derivative of File:Wikipedia scale of justice.png, which doesn't have any further description. Or have I misread? Durova (talk) 01:44, 24 December 2009 (UTC)

• About time someone pointed out the inconsistency of our policies, especially when we create derivatives of freely licensed works and then make them copyright by Wikimedia -Nard the Bard 02:47, 24 December 2009 (UTC)
  • Is this that case though? ++Lar: t/c 20:23, 25 December 2009 (UTC)

Hmmm.... The original image is subject to the same concerns too, I guess. I'll leave a note with Olmec, However, since yours is making a statement, it's probably prudent to pursue permission independently of the image it's derived from, as even if that one got permission, it's conceivable this one would not. ++Lar: t/c 20:23, 25 December 2009 (UTC)

Note I think there are similar concerns for the other two derivative images you made, File:Wikipedia scale of justice2.jpg and File:Wikipedia scale of justice3.jpg ... Note also that Olmec may not be around any more. Last contrib was 19 Nov 2008. (but he's more recently active on fr:wp where he is an admin, with activity in Nov of this year. ) ++Lar: t/c 20:47, 25 December 2009 (UTC)

There's a whole category of images that are variants on the WMF logo. If this is in need of a comprehensive cleanup effort I've no objection to getting the same treatment everyone else does. Due to existing commitments (mostly restorations and chapter work) I'll take a back seat and defer to consensus. Btw if permission is the only issue then the fair use parody clause of US law would make dealing with the others the higher priority (since no permission is required for parodies), but in order to avoid confusion within the community I'd courtesy delete my uploads if the others go. Durova (talk) 23:25, 25 December 2009 (UTC)

Yep, this perhaps is a bigger question than I realized at first, I keep finding more too. I'm going to drop Cary a note about it and see if there is guidance from the WMF available here. Thanks for your flexibility. ++Lar: t/c 17:19, 26 December 2009 (UTC)

Good idea. Durova (talk) 18:40, 26 December 2009 (UTC)

Happy Holidays

Courtesy of Chico, the Official Commons Christmas Puggle. :P

Durova, what can I say? It's been a year to remember. Thanks for making me feel welcome, and for all the amazing work you do. See you in 2010! Sarcastic ShockwaveLover (talk) 07:17, 24 December 2009 (UTC)

Ooh, thank you! (pets the puppy) Adorable. Durova (talk) 18:32, 24 December 2009 (UTC)

FP Promotion

★ This image has been promoted to Featured picture! ★ The image File:Descripción histórica y cronológica de las dos piedras que con ocasión del nuevo empedrado que se está formando en la plaza principal de México, se hallaron en ella el año de 1790-1b.jpg, that you nominated on Commons:Featured picture candidates/File:Descripción histórica y cronológica de las dos piedras que con ocasión del nuevo empedrado que se está formando en la plaza principal de México, se hallaron en ella el año de 1790-1b.jpg has been promoted. Thank you for your contribution. If you would like to nominate another image, please do so.

/FPCBot (talk) 16:00, 27 December 2009 (UTC)

context

I was not aware of previous discussions, because I'm mostly interested in sources and making them available. Its not my intention to become involved in them. I've seen your contributions and commented on them here, favourably I believe, but given this accusatory reaction I will clarify a couple of things. I started working on the book yesterday, I try to note things as I go around the sister sites. I found that a transcription is up at Gutenberg, has been for some years, and a partial version at wikisource:fr:Le Corbeau (traduit par Stéphane Mallarmé). I noticed your FP of the second image (and thought it was probably deserving), but was more interested to find that the LoC had an copy. I grabbed the JPG, discovering the higher resolution when I was half-way through my crude attempts to convert to B&W. Then I discovered your files while checking the subcats for Manet, and noticed you had made that the orientation of the fourth image, so I posted here to let you know. I have no talent for pointing out mistakes, apologies for that. The apparently earlier copy has the image upside down, whether this is significant is not evident, so why it is becomes irrelevant - especially for the purposes of FA. The scan at Gallica is shown upright and I've never seen this presented any other way. If the question is intent, we might start with the authors, this is the context [emphasis]:

And the Raven, never flitting, still is sitting—still is sitting On the pallid bust of Pallas just above my chamber door; And his eyes have all the seeming of a Demon's that is dreaming, And the lamp-light o'er him streaming throws his shadow on the floor; And my soul from out that shadow that lies floating on the floor Shall be lifted—nevermore! alt text=this is

I hope this gives some context to my edits, and why I fixed what I found yesterday. There is no reason to read anything more into this, it was an insignificant and not uncommon error unless sources state otherwise. cygnis insignis 10:56, 18 March 2010 (UTC)

Here is a source produced by searching on the title Le Corbeau and Manet Manet's silence and the poetics of bouquets. There is an example of a description of significant elements, at page 145, and the author identifies the same line I emphasized in the poem; so you add this to caption if you edit the article again. The possibility remains that a book hunter has noted any printing errors, that might be notable in an article about the book itself - in fact that is a good idea for an article! cygnis insignis 11:30, 18 March 2010 (UTC)

What we have here is an unusual situation in which two reliable sources contradict each other. I am contacting an art historian who specializes on this subject in order to garner more information.

It is not within project scope to attempt our own amateur interpretations of famous poetry, nor to conjecture artistic intent regarding their illustrations. Edit warring is never appropriate.

In addition to contacting the professor it would be useful to locate sources which specifically address the discrepancy between the first edition and later reproductions. So far what we have are only sources that praise the printer's excellence, not any that attribute "printer error". If this actually were an error it would be an obvious and major one.

In the absence of such a source, it is reasonable to faithfully reproduce the Library of Congress version with notation. They are the only source available which has provided a full book scan of the rare first edition. Durova (talk) 15:31, 18 March 2010 (UTC)

Good news: had a talk with the art history professor and he offered to double check against his reference sources. It may be a few days to get an answer. Durova (talk) 16:34, 18 March 2010 (UTC)

No, we have a pile of evidence that contradicts your original thought. I'm curious why you think anyone intended it to be that way, or what you see in the upside-down image. The link I gave describes the fourth plate in the orientation that everyone else sees, and quotes the same line in the poem - the obvious is easily citable. Why did you rotate the second lithograph?—both scans show it otherwise: LoC pl. 2. The signature being at bottom left and the image becoming coherent made me change it. What makes you think the Gallica scan is a reprint? I noted it as the same limited edition as LoC's copy, am I wrong? And how does that contradict the correct orientation, rather than support it. cygnis insignis 18:51, 18 March 2010 (UTC)

Let's wait for the professor's evaluation. Durova (talk) 20:02, 18 March 2010 (UTC)

Reliable sources say that the orientation found in this copy - the scan by the Library of Congress, from which this is reproduced - is wrong. As lithographs and text use different printing techniques, plates were usually printed separately, then inserted into the book, and it is not unknown for them to be misplaced. I personally own a book with a migratory illustration from around this period - someone decided to shove it in as a frontispiece, even though all the printed text described the image as being adjacent to a specific page. You have one instance, uncommented on by anyone but you, of it being put in upside down. The following reliable sources indicate this orientation likely reflects a printing error: The Bridgeman Art Library and the National Gallery of Australia both show it in its expected orientation, and Manet's Silence and the Poetics of Bouquets, by James Henry Rubin, says "In the fourth plate, shadow has itself taken on life, becoming the most prominent form. At its bottom it resembles that cast by the bird perched upon the bust, but then in much freer strokes it becomes a dense vapour rising and trailing into oblivion." No text can be found discussing Manet's bold decision to flip a plate upside-down, which one would expect when one checks books on Manet's work which describe this set in detail, and museums and art galleries.

File:Raven_Manet_E2_corrected.jpg should be used instead. Adam Cuerden (talk) 13:08, 20 March 2010 (UTC)