User talk:源義信/Archive 2

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Capital city of the Provisional Central Government of Vietnam in 1948

For sometime I've been unable to identify the capital city of the Provisional Central Government of Vietnam in 1948, I have seen documents from it issued both in Hanoi and Haiphong, Wikipedia claims that it was Saigon-Cholon, but seeing the level of advertising for Saigon-Cholon done in the 1950 bulletins you uploaded I highly doubt it, from what I can read the seat of government was only moved to Saigon-Cholon after the Autonomous Republic of Cochinchina was merged with it.

I thought that I was finally lucky and would be able to find over 50 (fifty) issues by this government between 1948 and 1949 here:

But... It turned out to be "invite-only" and while I have a pending request to access the Google Drive, I don't think that I would have my hands on these files anytime soon. In fact I found a large number of places that claimed access to such important historical Vietnamese works:

Unfortunately, all of them seem quite difficult to find. So, as you seem to have quite the expertise in finding information from that era, do you by any chance know if Hanoi, Haiphong, Huế, or perhaps even Dalat was seat of the Provisional Central Government of Vietnam before Saigon-Cholon?

Also (unrelated), would you like to have an automated archive that automatically moves old messages (like those DR's) into an archive after 30 days? --Donald Trung 『徵國單』 (No Fake News 💬) (WikiProject Numismatics 💴) (Articles 📚) 20:34, 19 November 2022 (UTC)

This is very coincidental, because I just found these files (Công Báo VN) on Gallica a few days ago and you can read and download it here (and probably import it to Commons too). As for the other two newspapers you mentioned, Gia Định báo can be found on Gallica, but it's the first time I've heard of Đại Nam Đăng Cổ Tùng Báo , so I don't know where we can find it yet.
I really need the function of automated archive, but I don't know how to do it (other than manually copy and paste😂) 源義信 (talk) 04:48, 20 November 2022 (UTC)
You just copy and paste "{{subst:User:Jeff G./usertalksetup}}", I got it from this template, but that will be deleted soon. Anyhow, thank you very much for the Gallica links. --Donald Trung 『徵國單』 (No Fake News 💬) (WikiProject Numismatics 💴) (Articles 📚) 07:12, 20 November 2022 (UTC)

Nam-Triều Quốc-Ngữ Công-Báo (南朝國語公報)

Do you by any chance know where to find the Nam-Triều Quốc-Ngữ Công-Báo (南朝國語公報, "Bulletin of the Southern Dynasty in the national language") online? This is actually the only government bulletin that I have been unable to find on Gallica (using search terms like "Journal de gouvernement Annamite" and "Bulletin officiel de gouvernement Annamite") without any results (usually only finding the protectorate's equivalent).

This was essentially the official bulletin of the Nguyễn Dynasty where all activities and legislation of the Huế Court were recorded, but I've only ever seen references to it online without any full publications. --Donald Trung 『徵國單』 (No Fake News 💬) (WikiProject Numismatics 💴) (Articles 📚) 10:44, 20 November 2022 (UTC)

Sorry but I haven't seen this document, except for the image that has been uploaded to Commons. Perhaps this material has not been made available electronically or to the public and that online image was scanned by someone in a library or an archive? It reminds me of the Bulletin of the Republic of Vietnam, which I have seen quoted by authors in some books before. Previously, I found this material available on LLMC digital (although I don't know how to download it), but recently I found that it requires a subscriber account and I forgot how I managed to read it before. 源義信 (talk) 12:08, 20 November 2022 (UTC)
I did find some "Bulletin of Vietnam" and "Viet-Nam Bulletin" documents on eBay; like this one and several in the "Suggested" fields. A lot of rare and hard-to-find things are on eBay for some time, though usually when something disappears from eBay it often disappears forever (or at least until someone else decides to upload another scan to the internet). Though I'm not sure if this is the South Vietnamese bulletin that you're referring to.
As for the "Bulletin of the Southern Dynasty in the national language", you're right that there's only ever that same page, people just want to use it to prove Vietnamese sovereignty of Hoàng Sa and then ignore whatever else is written in it. For a lot of (Vietnamese) people their interest in history starts and ends at the South China Sea / East Sea dispute, which is why you often see these odd "half publications" where the only information you'll find on a certain topic is how it relates to that dispute. This doesn't just affect the Nguyễn Dynasty, if I look for presidential decrees issued by the Republic of Vietnam 99% (ninety-nine percent) of the results are of that one decree President Ngô issued about the Hoàng Sa archipelago. 😑😑😑 But if you know where to find (so not just Ecosia, Google, Microsoft Bing, Yahoo!, DuckDucjGo, Baidu, Etc., But also eBay, archives, libraries, Etc.) You tend to find much more results. --Donald Trung 『徵國單』 (No Fake News 💬) (WikiProject Numismatics 💴) (Articles 📚) 13:39, 23 November 2022 (UTC)
Oh... that one is the bulletin published by the Embassy of the Republic of Vietnam in the United States (there are similar publications in France, Taiwan, and maybe other countries). The one I mentioned before is actually Công Báo Việt Nam Cộng Hòa, for which I've created a category and uploaded an issue I found on google books. 源義信 (talk) 13:47, 23 November 2022 (UTC)
Ah, thanks for clarifying. I was aware of the one made for the French, it makes sense that they'd have separate publications for countries with which they had a close relationship. -- — Donald Trung 『徵國單』 (No Fake News 💬) (WikiProject Numismatics 💴) (Articles 📚) 13:53, 23 November 2022 (UTC)

National Assembly of South Vietnam

There seems to be some problems with categorization and cross-linguistic links about the National Assembly of the Republic of Vietnam. Category:Senate of Vietnam is currently linked to National Assembly in Wikidata, which contains both Senate and the House of Representatives during the Second Republic. Another problem is that there are two Wikidata pages of the National Assembly of South Vietnam, respectively of the First Republic and Second Republic periods, while the Wikipedia article contains the history of both periods.

I suggest that a category of the " of the Republic of Vietnam" and subdivide it into the First Republic and the Second Republic, and then place the Senate and the House of Representatives under the Second Republic one.

This is a preliminary idea, and I am going to look for some more information before doing it. 源義信 (talk) 11:26, 17 December 2022 (UTC)

One more thing is to figure out appropriate translation, preferably using the official translation.
In Vietnam Statistical Yearbook it is simply written as Upper house and Lower house, how about other publications? 源義信 (talk) 11:35, 17 December 2022 (UTC)
I refer to several official or unofficial English translation versions of the 1967 Constitution of the Republic of Vietnam:
The 1956 Constitution mentioned only the National Assembly:
源義信 (talk) 11:54, 22 December 2022 (UTC)

Institutions of South Vietnam

Many departments in the Republic of Vietnam have merged and separated and how to create categories for them properly?

For example, the Ministry of Economy and of Finance, the Ministry of Public Construction and of Transport, the Ministry of Health and of Social Affairs.

Some departments have only changed their names, such as Bộ Quân Lực and Bộ Quốc Phòng, but it is doubtful whether Bộ Quốc Phòng và Cựu Chiến Binh is the same department because the Ministry of Veterans' Affairs also existed as a separate department Bộ Cựu Chiến Binh. 源義信 (talk) 11:31, 19 December 2022 (UTC)

Inspired by the category of Government of the Nguyễn Dynasty, I now deciding to create different categories for these departments. How to deal with the subordinate departments will be an another problem. 源義信 (talk) 11:58, 19 December 2022 (UTC)
Ah, I also ran across this issue while working with the Nguyễn Dynasty. The thing with name changes is that they're often not arbitrary. For example the Ministry of Education of the Nguyễn Dynasty had 3 (three) names throughout its history and the function of this ministry throughout the name changes changed, even though the institution remained the same. Sometimes an institution is first (1st) subordinate to another institution and then gets spun-off as its own thing, for example the Ministry of National Education's Department of Youth and Sports became the Ministry of Youth during the Trấn Trọng Kim Cabinet, while sometimes ministries merge, like the Ministry of Public Works and the Ministry of Rites. The Ministry of Rites itself had multiple iterations as well.
One of the reasons why I prefer to make separate categories for these is because of diffusion, we know that 200.000 or so documents of the Nguyễn Dynasty are in Hanoi alone, so when (well, if) these will be made publicly available online in the future it will be much easier for researchers and educators to narrow it down by specific period and function. This is also why I prefer to categorise in multiple dimensions (institution, subject, period, Etc.) so it's very easy to find whatever specific documents you're looking for. --Donald Trung 『徵國單』 (No Fake News 💬) (WikiProject Numismatics 💴) (Articles 📚) 11:16, 25 December 2022 (UTC)
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