User talk:פעמי-עליון

Welcome to Wikimedia Commons, פעמי-עליון!

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-- Wikimedia Commons Welcome (talk) 20:58, 31 January 2022 (UTC)

Copyright status: File:Orthotropics.jpg

Copyright status: File:Orthotropics.jpg

This media may be deleted.

Thanks for uploading File:Orthotropics.jpg. I notice that the file page either doesn't contain enough information about the license or it contains contradictory information about the license, so the copyright status is unclear. If you created this file yourself, then you must provide a valid copyright tag. For example, you can tag it with {{self|GFDL|cc-by-sa-all}} to release it under the multi-license GFDL plus Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike All-version license or you can tag it with {{PD-self}} to release it into the public domain. (See Commons:Copyright tags for the full list of license tags that you can use.) If you did not create the file yourself or if it is a derivative of another work that is possibly subject to copyright protection, then you must specify where you found it (e.g. usually a link to the web page where you got it), you must provide proof that it has a license that is acceptable for Commons (e.g. usually a link to the terms of use for content from that page), and you must add an appropriate license tag. If you did not create the file yourself and the specific source and license information is not available on the web, you must obtain permission through the VRT system and follow the procedure described there. Note that any unsourced or improperly licensed files will be deleted one week after they have been marked as lacking proper information, as described in criteria for deletion. If you have uploaded other files, please confirm that you have provided the proper information for those files, too. If you have any questions about licenses please ask at Commons:Village pump/Copyright or see our help pages. Thank you.

Yours sincerely, Yann (talk) 19:38, 25 April 2022 (UTC)

Hy Yann, the picture comes from the London school of orthotropics. How can I label it soit will be used only in the articles about Orthotropics or this school? פעמי-עליון (talk) 19:44, 25 April 2022 (UTC)

You can't. You need the formal written permission of the copyright holder to upload this here. Thanks, Yann (talk) 19:57, 25 April 2022 (UTC)

There is no possible way to make it a non-free content? If so, I will send them an e-mail as soon as possible. פעמי-עליון (talk) 20:09, 25 April 2022 (UTC)

File:Idalium excavations.jpg

Harmonizing categories is forbidden; Criterion #4 is dedicated only for sets (one subject, one day, one author), one photo divided into many parts (Thames 1/100; Thames 2/100, etc.), for Wikisource's books or for templates (BSicon and others). In such a case you can use Criterion #2 (meaningless name) or #3 (error, mistake). Wieralee (talk) 14:21, 16 April 2023 (UTC)

Hi Wieralee, thanks for letting me know. Before I re-request under another Criterion, I just want to make sure it doesn't count as a set: you can see that File:Idalium excavations.jpg is the same object depicted in File:Idalion palace - west - 07. wall.jpg, File:Idalion palace - west - 08. wall.jpg and File:Idalion palace - west - 09. wall.jpg (number 08 is almost identical in the angle of the shot); a set must be with the same auther and/or date? פעמי-עליון (talk) 15:16, 16 April 2023 (UTC)

• @פעמי-עליון: why do you want to rename it? you can write what you want in description: our browser will find it. Wieralee (talk) 15:32, 16 April 2023 (UTC)

  I want to adjust the name to most of the other files in the category... if it is not a set I will write it in description under another Criterion. פעמי-עליון (talk) 15:37, 16 April 2023 (UTC)

(‎removed Category:Archaeological sites in the West Bank; added Category:Archaeological sites in Samaria

I noticed that you made above mentioned change in around 31 category, can you please explain the basis for this change (West Bank to Samaria)? Thanks on advance --Alaa :)..! 21:54, 2 June 2023 (UTC)

Hi Alaa, Samaria is (approximately) the northern part of the west bank. It's just more precise than the west bank, which is more general - all these categories are still in Category:Archaeological sites in the West Bank, just in the fit sub-category. It's like putting Category:Nora stone in Category:Phoenician inscriptions in Cagliari instead of in Category:Phoenician inscriptions in Italy. פעמי-עליון (talk) 22:18, 2 June 2023 (UTC)

Isn’t more like saying, “Donbas is in Russia”? Samaria doesn’t exist anymore. Are the cats you moved Samarian archeological sites? Maybe we need a new category:Samarian archeological sites and keep them in Category:West Bank too? Raquel Baranow (talk) 03:34, 3 June 2023 (UTC)

Please revert these changes as appropriate. On Wikipedia, the naming convention for this area is WPWESTBANK - "West Bank" or "the West Bank" (capitalized) is the most commonly used name for the land area known by that name, and is to be used. The terms "northern West Bank" and "southern West Bank" can be used to refer to parts of it." Thank you for your attention. Selfstudier (talk) 07:16, 3 June 2023 (UTC)

Raquel Baranow, I don't understand how did you get to this conclusion... It's a region, whether under Israeli, Jordanian, Ottoman or Canaanite control. Samaria exists as a region, it has never been a political entity (the kingdom of Israel was called "Samsimruna", meaning Samaria, in ancient Assyrian, but it was the name of the capital city and did not refer to the Samaria mountains region exclusively). I think maybe you confuse Samarian (as a geographic description) and Samaritan (Religious-ethnic description)?

Selfstudier, we are not in english wikipedia, I respect the decisions of the english wikipedia community in the english wikipedia, but I don't think they apply here (look at the top of the page: "This guideline documents an English Wikipedia naming convention."). Notice some of the categories under Category:Archaeological sites in Judea are in the green line, simply because Judea region is wider than the southern part of the west bank.

Geagea, you helped me in some occasions in commons, maybe you can help me (in Hebrew, because it's easier fot me) understand the rules of the community (כללי הקהילה) in this topic. פעמי-עליון (talk) 11:55, 3 June 2023 (UTC)

If you worry aboud "Israelification" of the region by identifying it as Samaria, Samaria is a name for a region called in hebrew שומרון (Shomron) but also in arabic السامرة (as-Samirah), it really is just a more precise geographical description of an area in the west bank... Its political connotation is not unambiguously israeli/jewish. פעמי-עליון (talk) 12:11, 3 June 2023 (UTC)

This description is in general used only by Israel and is not neutral. These cats are based on the English WP articles. Therefore please revert as appropriate. Thank you. Selfstudier (talk) 12:25, 3 June 2023 (UTC)

Many of these categories are about sites with no english article about them, so they are not based on the english wikipedia articles.

by the way, Geagea, גיוס עורכים לדיונים מותר פה בויקישיתוף? כי אני רואה בדף השיחה של סלף-סטדייר שרקואל ברנאו גייס אותו לדיון פה. פעמי-עליון (talk) 12:43, 3 June 2023 (UTC)

Doesn't matter, it is still POV. Selfstudier (talk) 13:48, 3 June 2023 (UTC)

It is clear that you are making POV edits, example. The Golan is not "in Israel", the purported Israeli annex is not accepted by the UN/international community. I've reverted that. Selfstudier (talk) 13:56, 3 June 2023 (UTC)

The Golan is recognized as Israeli in the Israeli and American laws. Is Category:Archaeological sites in Northern Cyprus NPOV? What about Category:Archaeological sites in Somaliland? And Category:Archaeological sites in Taiwan? All of them are not recognized by international community, but they are OK, as Samaria is OK, because it is simply a geographical discription. The example you gave is the only one you will find in my 4,000 edits. פעמי-עליון (talk) 14:20, 3 June 2023 (UTC)

The US is signed up to a UN resolution declaring the Syrian annex null and void, same as Jerusalem, political decisions are irrelevant until the US signs up to a new resolution. Of course Israeli law but that is exactly the point, it is Israeli POV.Selfstudier (talk) 15:50, 3 June 2023 (UTC)

I did not remove "Category:Archaeological sites in Syria" because this is the Syrian POV, but the Israeli POV shouldn't be silenced as well. פעמי-עליון (talk) 16:23, 3 June 2023 (UTC)

It is the POV of Syria and everyone else ie it is NPOV. The Israeli view is POV and not NPOV. I should not have to explain this.Selfstudier (talk) 16:28, 3 June 2023 (UTC)

I agree with Raquel Baranow and Selfstudier. Please remember that:

Palestinian Authority and the international community do not recognize the term "Samaria".

And as mentioned above "Please revert these changes as appropriate", then you can open a community discussion regarding that. Thanks on advance --Alaa :)..! 14:39, 3 June 2023 (UTC)

I don't know where is this sentence taken from. I do know that Cypriot Authority and the international community do not recognize the term "Northern Cyprus", and yet, Category:Archaeological sites in Northern Cyprus exists. I didn't create Category:Archaeological sites in Samaria, I just added categories of archaeological sites (most of them before Christ, which means, according to the english wikipedia rules mentioned above, "References for antiquity follow sources and use Judea and Samaria for the period up to the first century CE") that are in the geographical region of Samaria (and as I said, they are still under Category:Archaeological sites in the West Bank, but in a sub-category). I don't know if you know, but Israel does not recognize the term Samaria either. Israel refers the whole "west bank" as "Judea and Samaria", but there is no actual division to Judea as one part and Samaria as another part that stands by itself (there is "Shomron Regional Council", but a big part of Samaria is under "Mateh Binyamin Regional Council"). פעמי-עליון (talk) 14:57, 3 June 2023 (UTC)

Above sentence documented and sourced at the end of Samaria introduction. Same with "Judea and Samaria Area", as it's "administrative division of Israel". In your edits, you removed "West bank" and added "Samaria"; The question is, where are these sites located now? A: in West Bank, State of Palestine. Also, there seems to be confusion as a result of a misunderstanding of the subjects per 89769314 and 89769293; especially that "West Bank" term appeared after 1948. Do you see that put Samaria and Judea categories under West bank category is a right thing?

Also please keep the discussion on the same topic, we are not talking here about Italy, Northern Cyprus or Taiwan, and I'm not familiar with their history. --Alaa :)..! 15:14, 3 June 2023 (UTC)

If we follow, as you sujest, the rules of the English wikipedia, we should also apply the rule that "References for antiquity follow sources and use Judea and Samaria for the period up to the first century CE" on archaeological sites. Also, according to West Bank, the sites are in the area that is known nowadays as "West Bank, Palestinian territories". I am not sure I uderstood your question correctly; if you ask if I think that Category:Archaeological sites in Samaria and Category:Archaeological sites in Judea should be under Category:Archaeological sites in the West bank, my answer is yes, of course.

About Northern Cyprus: it is very simple, this "state" is an occupide territory and is not recognized by any state exept Turkey, but archaelogical sites in the region of Northern Cyprus are categorized under Category:Archaeological sites in Northern Cyprus. פעמי-עליון (talk) 15:38, 3 June 2023 (UTC)

I don't really want to be involved in this discussion but be aware to the official policy on Wikimedia Commons - Commons:Project scope/Neutral point of view: "Commons is not Wikipedia, and files uploaded here do not necessarily need to comply with the Neutral point of view and No original research requirements imposed by many of the Wikipedia sites." So the Golan Heights should be double categorization with Syria and Israel. As the Israeli law recognized them as part of Israel. removing categories is bad idea. instead you can add more categories as needed. -- Geagea (talk) 21:17, 3 June 2023 (UTC)

Thanks Geagea! ומה לגבי הגיוסים? אני לא חושב שאני רוצה לנקוט צעדים, רק לדעת אם זה מותר, כי קצת לא נעים שקוראים לעורכים אחרים לדף השיחה שלי כדי לתקוף עריכות שביצעתי. פעמי-עליון (talk) 21:34, 3 June 2023 (UTC)

אין לוויקישיתוף מדיניות לגבי גיוסים. לפעמים יש דיונים שבהם מפנים למדיניות בוויקי האנגלית. בכל אופן גיוס של משתמש אחד לא נחשב ל"גיוסים". הדבר היחיד שזה כן בא לידי ביטוי זה בהצבעות למפעיל. כשיש גיוסים יש לכאורה בעייה אבל אין מדיניות רשמית כאמור. אני מציע שתסיר את הסרת הקטגוריות ותוסיף קטגוריות משלך. -- Geagea (talk) 21:38, 3 June 2023 (UTC)

אני מבין... נראה שהם נרגעו, אז גם אני אעזוב את זה, אני כבר לא אתנגד אם הם יעשו מה שהם רוצים כל עוד זה לא קיצוני מדי. תודה! פעמי-עליון (talk) 11:14, 4 June 2023 (UTC)

Golan

Selfstudier, I answer to you (to this) here because it is a different topic, and because I am not against puting the Golan under the "Israeli occupied" category, I just thing the Isreali-American POV should be heard as well.

Not everyone else, there a minor state called United States that support the Israeli POV.

The Turkish POV on North Cyprus is also not NPOV, right? so why is there Category:Archaeological sites in Northern Cyprus? פעמי-עליון (talk) 17:17, 3 June 2023 (UTC)

Turkey Cyprus is of no interest to me and has nothing to do with the Golan. I explained the US position above already.The WP article explains it and the Israeli position is covered there. We do not categorize it as "Israeli" because that is POV, how many more times I have to say that? You cannot cat a thing as being in two countries, that's just nonsense and you cannot deal with the minority Israeli position by doing that, instead set up a link back to the WP article if you want to do that. Selfstudier (talk) 17:33, 3 June 2023 (UTC)

It's the same topic, POV editing. Which should cease. Selfstudier (talk) 17:33, 3 June 2023 (UTC)

Again, assuming you are right and it is POV, "Northern Cyprus" is also POV, and yet it exists here, so explain to me please, what's the difference? Why is one OK and the other is not?

By the way, I see the english wikipedia is very meaningful to you. Why don't we just follow the rule that says "References for antiquity follow sources and use Judea and Samaria for the period up to the first century CE", and aply it on all of the archaeological sites in Judea and Samaria that dates to 1st century CE and earlier? פעמי-עליון (talk) 17:41, 3 June 2023 (UTC)

Why is one OK and the other is not? No idea, Idk anything about it and it makes no difference to our discussion here.

Per WP WestBank "The terms "Samaria" or "Judea" cannot be used without qualification in the NPOV neutral voice; for example, it cannot be asserted without qualification that a place is "in Samaria", which is what you are doing. Selfstudier (talk) 18:00, 3 June 2023 (UTC)

The discusion about "Northern Cyprus" is important, because it shows that what you say is not applied in other similar cases in commons.

If I bring academic sources to every one of the archaeologial sites categories I edited that thay are in Judea or Samaria, will it satisfy you? פעמי-עליון (talk) 18:17, 3 June 2023 (UTC)

No, I just explained why. It can be explained in a WP article but not here by fiat, it is POV to do so. Selfstudier (talk) 18:26, 3 June 2023 (UTC)

As I said, many of these sites don't even have wikipedia articles. I don't understand the word "fiat", does it mean "command" (that's how "google translate" translates it to Hebrew)? I think you overestimate the pendency of commons on wikipedia, these are two separates projects. פעמי-עליון (talk) 18:33, 3 June 2023 (UTC)

As I said, it is POV whether there is WP article or not. Quite happy to keep repeating that. Fiat ie by command without explanation. The fact remains that three editors have taken issue with your edits, I assume that consensus is still a thing, even here. Selfstudier (talk) 18:50, 3 June 2023 (UTC)

Two editors against one (you took issue with my edits after mr Baranow brought it to your attention, I can bring many pro-history editors to here in the same way) is not "consensus", it is what we call in Hebrew wikipedia רוב מקרי (random majority), and I respect your opinions, but I believe we should try to get to compromise; I hope that's your tendency too. פעמי-עליון (talk) 19:12, 3 June 2023 (UTC)

Raquel is a female name. Raquel Baranow (talk) 12:39, 3 July 2023 (UTC)

Sorry, that's the first time I hear this name... in Hebrew there are different words for male user and female user so you can know the gender from the title of the user's page, so I'm not used to have grammatical gender issues. Did I address you as a male? פעמי-עליון (talk) 13:38, 3 July 2023 (UTC)

Yes, you wrote “mr,” (sic, Mr) which is male. Maybe a typos, lol. Raquel Baranow (talk) 04:07, 7 July 2023 (UTC)

From the reply by Geagea, it seems the problem is resolved when the deleted categories for the West Bank are restored ie double categorization, which is apparently permitted here. Selfstudier (talk) 12:24, 4 June 2023 (UTC)

OK, I'll double categorize in the Golan and Samaria. פעמי-עליון (talk) 07:49, 7 June 2023 (UTC)

أمين, Hi, look at the discusion here to understand why I double-categorizad Samaria as well. פעמי-עליון (talk) 19:35, 9 June 2023 (UTC)

Welcome, Dear Filemover!

---

Hi פעמי-עליון, you're now a filemover. When moving files please respect the following advice:

• Use the CommonsDelinker link in the {{Rename}} template to order a bot to replace all ocurrences of the old title with the new one. Or, if there was no rename-request, please use the Move & Replace-tab.
• Please leave a redirect behind unless you have a valid reason not to do so. Other projects, including those using InstantCommons, might be using the file even though they don't show up in the global usage. Deleting the redirects would break their file references. Please see this section of the file rename guideline for more information.
• Please know and follow the file rename guidelines.

-- Geagea (talk) 10:53, 22 February 2024 (UTC)

Thanks Gea! פעמי-עליון (talk) 12:26, 22 February 2024 (UTC)