Template talk:PD-South VietnamGov

Prior discussions

Please see "Commons:Village pump/Copyright/Archive/2021/10" for the most recent prior discussion about this template. --Donald Trung 『徵國單』 (No Fake News 💬) (WikiProject Numismatics 💴) (Articles 📚) 16:48, 29 January 2022 (UTC)

Question

@Donald Trung: Hi Donald Trung, I hope you're well. I'm planning to import this template to Vietnamese Wikipedia, but I want to know why the French protectorate of Tonkin, the French protectorate of Annam, and the colony of Cochinchina are included in this template. Thanks in advance for your clarification.  Băng Tỏa  21:42, 4 October 2022 (UTC)

@Băng Tỏa: , the messy political situation that was Post-War French Indo-China, officially the Việt Minh only recognised the Democratic Republic of Vietnam, but the French quickly attempted to re-establish their colonial empire which included the old states. In fact, French documents mention "Tonkin", "Annam", and "Cochinchina" until 1954.

During the messy Post-War periods there were simultaneous governments for French Tonkin, Bắc Việt (PCG of Vietnam and later the State of Vietnam), and Bắc Bộ (Democratic Republic of Vietnam) and you can find documents issued by all three (3). The French did officially abolish the protectorate in either 1950 or 1952 or something, I had a newspaper article with a picture attached mentioning it but I didn't import it because it's still in copyright and can't remember where I found it.

Because Vietnam doesn't really have any legal rights over Cambodia and Laos I specified the components of French Indo-China rather than the federation itself. Also a Vietnamese translation of this template already exists at the Vietnamese-language Wikisource.

So in short, Tonkin, Annam, and Cochinchina officially existed during the 1940's after the declaration of independence of the Democratic Republic of Vietnam, so the current Vietnamese government views these entities as "unrecognised states" (or even "enemy states"). Any government works issued by these entities until 1947 can by tagged with "PD-Vietnam". Also note that the 1948 end date for these places used on Wikipedia's actually isn't reflected in the contemporary documents, so it's better to specify it here to avoid future confusion. Essentially it is just a list of Vietnamese countries that existed since 2 September 1945 that were in opposition to the Democratic Republic of Vietnam grouped together under the umbrella term "South Vietnam", note that technically Hanoi was a part of "South Vietnam" under this definition in 1953. --Donald Trung 『徵國單』 (No Fake News 💬) (WikiProject Numismatics 💴) (Articles 📚) 22:00, 4 October 2022 (UTC)