Category talk:Musical genres

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There is currently a discussion in Commons:Categories for discussion about the relationship between Category:Musical genres and Category:Musical groups by genre. - Jmabel | talk 05:36, 16 July 2007 (UTC)

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Category:Musical genres and Category:Musical groups by genre

Is there any intelligible distinction between Category:Musical genres and Category:Musical groups by genre? If so, could someone clarify in text on the respective category pages and look to see if the subcategories make consistent sense? Thanks.

Also, I see that many images of groups are contained directly in Category:Musical groups by genre, which makes no sense to me at all. - Jmabel | talk 05:37, 16 July 2007 (UTC)

In theory Musical groups by genre could be a subcategory of Musical genres (and musical groups) but that requires that we have some content that belongs to Musical genres but not musical groups by genre. I don't know what that content would be. Samulili 08:16, 16 July 2007 (UTC)

All images of sheet music, for one ;) . Musical instruments sometimes are associated with a certain genre. There are loads of sound samples of certain styles of music, these belong to a genre, not to a musical group. So, Category:Musical groups by genre should be a subcategory of Musical genres. As for images directly in Category:Musical groups by genre: in a dream world everyone would categorize their uploads in a meaningful way, but unfortunately, it isn't so. --rimshot^talk 09:51, 16 July 2007 (UTC)

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First, I recommand you the reading of this section. So, your question regards the difference between Category:Musical genres and Category:Musical groups: I think that you'll guess the answer, as for the difference between Category:Collars and Category:Dogs.

However, you'll notice that the criterion for Category:Musical groups by genre is “musical genre”, but not “genre”. So, the category could be renamed Category:Musical groups by musical genre, as any other category “by musical genre”, subcategory of Category:Categories by musical genre. --Juiced lemon 17:49, 16 July 2007 (UTC)

It should be obvious that when one is categorizing musical groups by genre, the genre is a musical one. Therefore there is no reason to repeat the word. Samulili 19:19, 16 July 2007 (UTC)

There are 2 reasons to do so:

1. Each artistic domain can have its own genres, like musical genres or literary genres: we don't save anything to confuse them.

2. Allowing any person to use the database with a basic knowledge of the English language. --Juiced lemon 20:00, 16 July 2007 (UTC)

I have to say I agree with Samulili here. As for your reasons: I don't quite understand 1., I am afraid. Are you saying that it's problematic that there is a musical as well as a literary style Baroque? I don't see how that can be a problem. And your second reason: if someone doesn't understand "genre", he won't understand "musical genre" either. If someone doesn't understand "musical group", the whole point is moot, as he will never even have arrived at the category "Category:Musical groups" and therefore will never need to find out what "Musical groups by genre" is about. I cannot think of a scenario where adding redundant information will help in any way. --rimshot^talk 09:57, 17 July 2007 (UTC)

So far, this is all clear as mud. In particular, how can individual photos belong in a category called Category:Musical groups by genre, or anything of the sort? - Jmabel | talk 17:56, 16 July 2007 (UTC)

This is the first sentence of the linked section:

These are special categories which are useful to group other related pages (not media files) according to a given criterion..

If this sentence is not clear enough for you, it means:

It is strictly forbidden to categorize media files in any “category by CRITERION”.

--Juiced lemon 19:02, 16 July 2007 (UTC)

So why this tone when you are apparently agreeing with me that these pictures don't belong there? -- Jmabel | talk 04:47, 17 July 2007 (UTC)

To repeat what I said above: you know that they don't belong there, I know, and Juiced lemon knows. The people who put them there don't know, unfortunately. I guess your (repeated) remark about that made it seem like you weren't so sure either that they really don't belong there. I have added a few words to Category:Musical groups by genre, to make it clearer to others as well. --rimshot^talk 09:32, 17 July 2007 (UTC)

Sorry for the tone: some passing annoyance, due to the difficulty to explain some basic things about classification. --Juiced lemon 11:26, 17 July 2007 (UTC)