User talk:Susan M Anderson

Welcome to Wikimedia Commons, Susan M Anderson!

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-- Wikimedia Commons Welcome (talk) 22:34, 7 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Copyright and permission[edit]

Hi, If you upload files on behalf of the Bowers Museum, could you please send a general permission via COM:OTRS. For example, File:Ancestor Panel, 20th Century Abelam culture; Papua New Guinea, Melanesia.jpg shows that the photographer is Minhsu Wang, who is the copyright owner unless it is a work for hire. If you need any help, please contact me. Thanks, Yann (talk) 14:46, 14 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Thank You[edit]

Hi, Yann. All of the photos I uploaded were work for hire. They did not give me photographers' names because of that. If they had, I would have tried to figure out how to deal with that. I assumed that because they were all work for hire of objects in the collection (that are in the public domain) that it was probably safe to upload them the way I did. To put it another way, they are faithful copies of 2D and 3D works of art in the public domain, and were work for hire by the museum. The museum holds the copyright. Is there a step I missed or is there a better way to approach this? I am grateful for any help you can provide. I am still figuring out the mysteries of Wikipedia. Thank you, Susan M Anderson (talk) 19:16, 14 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Hi, Yann. I just looked at the directions for getting a general permission via COM:OTRS. If someone from the Bowers Museums fills the following out and sends it, does that satisfy the requirements? Can I forward it to them and have them send it? Thank you for the help. Best, Susan M Anderson (talk) 19:16, 14 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, that's what's needed. Yann (talk) 19:38, 14 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you so much, Yann. Can the museum simply say that all images in the Wikipedia article are covered by the permission, or do they need to have a list? How would the list appear? Thank you so much. I appreciate the help. Best, Susan M Anderson (talk) 19:44, 14 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]

To: permissions-commons@wikimedia.org
I hereby affirm that I choose one:, [name] or [represent copyright holder's name], the creator and/or sole owner of the exclusive copyright of choose one: [the media work][1]or [the work depicted in the media][2] or [both the work depicted and the media][3] as shown here: choose one: [web page of the content] or [in the attached images/text],[4]and have legal authority in my capacity to release the copyright of that work.
I agree to publish the above-mentioned content under the following free license: Creative Commons Attribution-Share Alike 4.0 International.[5]
I acknowledge that by doing so I grant anyone the right to use the work, even in a commercial product or otherwise, and to modify it according to their needs, provided that they abide by the terms of the license and any other applicable laws.
I am aware that this agreement is not limited to Wikipedia or related sites.
I am aware that the copyright holder always retains ownership of the copyright as well as the right to be attributed in accordance with the license chosen. Modifications others make to the work will not be claimed to have been made by the copyright holder.
I acknowledge that I cannot withdraw this agreement, and that the content may or may not be kept permanently on a Wikimedia project.
[Sender's name]
[Sender's authority (if applicable. E.g. "Copyright holder", "Director", "Appointed representative of", etc.)]
[Date]

Send this[edit]

Have someone with authority at the museum use a museum email to mail the below to permissions-commons@wikimedia.org

I hereby affirm that I represent the Bowers Museum, the sole owner of the exclusive copyright the media work

and have legal authority in my capacity to release the copyright of that work. I agree to publish the above-mentioned content under the following free license: Creative Commons Attribution-Share Alike 4.0 International. I acknowledge that by doing so I grant anyone the right to use the work, even in a commercial product or otherwise, and to modify it according to their needs, provided that they abide by the terms of the license and any other applicable laws. I am aware that this agreement is not limited to Wikipedia or related sites. I am aware that the copyright holder always retains ownership of the copyright as well as the right to be attributed in accordance with the license chosen. Modifications others make to the work will not be claimed to have been made by the copyright holder. I acknowledge that I cannot withdraw this agreement, and that the content may or may not be kept permanently on a Wikimedia project.

[Sender's name]

[Sender's authority (if applicable. E.g. "Copyright holder", "Director", "Appointed representative of", etc.)]

[Date]

Blue Rasberry (talk) 20:08, 14 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Oh my, Blueraspberry, that is such a help. I will forward that to the Bowers, ask them to copy it, and have them email it back. I REALLY appreciate you doing that. I am also happy to know what to do the next time I create a Wikipedia article for a museum or anything where there is one copyright holder of the entire selection of photos. All the best, Susan M Anderson (talk) 20:16, 14 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Different people have different ideas about how online communication should work. I am glad that you are open to some human-to-human discussion, because there is no quick way to automate these kinds of things. Thanks for talking it through. If more questions come up then message me, Yann, or the general community. Blue Rasberry (talk) 20:31, 14 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Dear Blueraspberry, Yes, I have noticed there are all kinds on Wikipedia. You have been wonderful to work with. Wikipedia has its own language and it takes awhile to learn it. I have only tried my hand at three articles so far so have very little experience. I wish that I had not signed up using my real name as I think having people (men) know you are a woman puts you at a disadvantage. So, thank you for being so helpful and humane. I appreciate it. You were kind to step in and offer to help. Apparently the Bowers Museum has already sent back the permission form to Commons. Best, Susan M Anderson (talk) 23:55, 14 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Hi Susan M Anderson. Thank you for clarifying the copyright status of the files you uploaded. I had asked about them at en:Talk:Bowers Museum#December 9 edits and revert, but there was no response. So, I decided to ask some others on Commons to take a look at them. It seems like everything is in order and once Commons OTRS verifies the email the museum sends in, an OTRS volunteer will tag the files with Template:PermissionOTRS and do whatever reamining cleanup is required. It might also be possible for the museum to sort of be "pre-approved" regarding any files it holds the copyright on that you upload on its behalf. To do this, just read COM:OTRS#Licensing images: when do I contact OTRS?. It might also be possible for the museum to post the relevant license for these photos on it's official website if they wish to do so.

You mentioned above that these photos were a "work for hire". I am assuming that you mean the museum hired someone other than yourself to take them. If, however, you have been hired by the museum to work on the Wikipedia article written about it (even take photos and add them to the article), then please read en:WP:PAID and en:WP:PSCOI. Commons and Wikipedia are both operated by the en:Wikimedia Foundation and there is lots of overlap of the two, but they are really separate entities with there own specific policies and guidelines. Wikipedia has some pretty strict policies when it somes to "paid editing", so it's best to know what the Wikipedia Community expects from paid editors. -- Marchjuly (talk) 21:47, 14 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Marchjuly, if you had addressed your message to me using my name I would have seen it. Others have been sending messages so that I get an email by including my name in the message. It makes it easier for newcomers. So, no response because I never saw it. I hope the problem of attribution and permissions will soon be solved as the Bowers Museum was going to forward the email giving permission right away.

I am not a photographer but thank you for imputing that level of expertise to me. No, most museums, including the Bowers I would suppose, have a photo taken by a professional on staff (or by a work for hire professional from outside) when the object comes into the collection. Some of the objects may have been in the collection for years; some are probably newly accessioned into the collection. So, there may be a handful of different photographers that were involved over the years. Susan M Anderson (talk) 00:07, 15 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you for the additional clarification Susan M Anderson. Don't worry about "no response" thing. I wasn't specifically addressing you per se, but figured somebody watching the article's talk page would notice it and perhaps comment. As for the licensing of the files, OTRS will dot all the i's and cross all the t's as soon as they verify the email. It may take a little time since there tends to be a bit of a backlog and only so many OTRS volunteers. When the Bowers sends in its email, it should get a reply saying that it has been received. This reply will contain an OTRS ticket number which can be used if there are any questions about the email/verification process. If it starts to take too long, then just ask about the files at COM:OTRSN. In the meantime, you or whoever sends in the email can add Template:OTRS pending to the relevant file pages. This will let others know that an email has been sent in and is only waiting to be verified. Doing this might prevent the files from being mistakenly tagged/nominated for deletion by another editor.

Finally, if you upload any more files for the museum, you can add them to Category:Bowers Museum by just adding that category name in the relevant field when you upload the file. Doing so will make it a little easier to keep track of all the files related to the museum. -- Marchjuly (talk) 01:32, 15 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Marchjuly, thank you so much for trying to help. I am worried that someone may delete all the image files but I can't understand where to put the Template:OTRS pending you suggested. There is no one at the museum apparently that edits or adds to Wikipedia so although they sent an email to Permissions they will not be able to check up on it or add something. What are the "relevant file pages" you mentioned? I fear it takes years to get to the point that one can speak the same language as a Wikipedia expert. Sigh. Thanks again, Susan M Anderson (talk) 02:04, 15 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]

No problem Susan M Anderson. Anyone can add the "OTRS pending" template if they know for sure that an email has been sent in. Basically, all that needs to be done is to edit each file and add {{subst:OP}} to each file's page. Typically, the most visible place for the template is the |permission= parameter in the "{{Information}}" template for the file. If there is no "permission" parameter, then just add one; however, it will only be displayed if there's an entry for it, so its best to check the template markup in the edit window.. Finally, one thing about pinging others that I didn't mention in my last post. As you said above, it can be helpful when someone notifies you of a post; there are some however, who find it annoying and have actually disabled that feature. I don't mind either way, but just thought you should know that you may eventually come across an editor who really does not liked to be "pinged" and is quite happy to let others know their feelings on the matter. So, it might not be something you need to do or should do all the time, especially on your user talk. It's safe to assume that if someone has posted on your user talk, then they are probably watching the page and will reply (if they want to) without being prompted. -- Marchjuly (talk) 02:33, 15 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for that information, Marchjuly (sans ping). That could be annoying to people that have a lot going on on Wikipedia, like you probably! So, I will change my ways. I still feel like you are speaking Greek but it seems I need to go into each photo file and add the code {{subst:OP}}. I am amazed what a time suck this whole thing is and hope that next time I do better, for my sake and the sake of all of you. Thank you for your help, Marchjuly. You have really put a lot of time into my article and I actually think it is rather good now. I am also pleased to say that the parts requiring almost no editing were the ones that I just wrote without borrowing from the museum's website, which is what got me in trouble. I think I have it down now as far as the correct tone of an article and the need for referencing everything.Thanks again for your help. Susan M Anderson (talk) 03:30, 15 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Making mistakes is part of what editing on Wikipedia/Commons is all about, and no experienced editor should give you a hard time as long as the mistakes are made in good faith. Editing is done collaboratively, so one editor's mistakes will usually be fixed by another editor and so on and so on. Editing can for sure start to take up a lot of your time once you get into it, but just remember pretty much all of us are volunteers doing this as a hobby and there's no rule which says you cannot take a break every now and then. As for the "OTRS pending" template, I can add them for the above files if you're positive the relevant email(s) has/have already been sent in by the museum. I just figured you might want to do it as practice. Basically, you go to the relevant file's page and click edit. You should see the following template markup and all you need to do is add the "OTRS pending" template as the "permission" parameter entry.

{{Information
|description=
|date=
|source=
|author=
|permission= {{subst:OP}}
|other versions=
}}

If you do that and click "Show preview" you should see the template in action. Be advised that adding this template only gives OTRS 30 days to verify the file's licensing. If 30 days pass and OTRS still has not verified the licensing, the template will automatically change to Template:No permission since and be tagged for speedy deletion. So, if it starts to get close to 30 days and the email from the museum still has not been verified, please ask for assistance at Commons:OTRS/Noticeboard. -- Marchjuly (talk) 04:46, 15 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Hi again Susan M Anderson. The "nowiki" and "code" tags I added to my above posts were just sort of html instructions to the software used by Wikipedia/Wikimedia Commons. "No wiki" tells the software to simply treat whatever comes next as simple text and not to see it as a request to use the template, whatever. The curly brackets around the "subst:OP" tell the software that this is a template so that it should treat it as such. So, if I just type it out as text, the software will actually add the template to this page which is not really what I want. By adding the "nowiki" tags before and after the template code, I am telling the software to ignore the code and treat what is written like any other word. The "code" tag just seem to add a color background to whatever falls between to make it a bit easier to see and differentiate from regular text. You don't need the "code" or the "nowiki" tags on the file pages because they are telling the software not to use the template. I fixed one for you so if you look at File:Spirits and Headhunters in the Anderson-Hsu-Tu Gallery.jpg you should see the difference. All that needs to be done for the rest of the files is to just do what I did here. I just removed all the "nowiki" and "code" stuff so that only {{Subst:OP}} remains. If you do that and click "Show preview", you should see the difference right away. Again, I don't mind doing this for the rest of the files, but I figured I'd let you practice. -- Marchjuly (talk) 22:11, 15 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Slowking4 cleaned up some of the "OTRS pending" templates while making some other tweaks to the files' pages, so I just went ahead a did the rest. If you want to see what we did, just look at the files' edit histories for reference. If you have any questions, feel free to ask. -- Marchjuly (talk) 00:23, 16 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Some stroopwafels for you![edit]

hi, nice work - i have created the institution template Institution:Bowers Museum for your use

please consider using template:artwork and upload with commons:pattypan. cheers Slowking4 § Richard Arthur Norton's revenge 18:22, 15 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Dear Slowking4 § Richard Arthur Norton's revenge, Thank you. That looks very helpful for use in the future for adding new images. This is all new to me; it feels like a foreign language. For now, I am worried about the deletion of the photos on the Bowers Museum article. Or does this signal that they have been accepted by Wikipedia Commons because they received the permissions from the museum? Susan M Anderson (talk) 18:50, 15 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]

hi, yes sorry, the learning curve is steep. your images have not been nominated for deletion. when the OTRS goes through, and there can be a 30 day backlog, that should settle the matter. if the museum had a page about the items to link to as a source, with a CC-BY license, that would be helpful (i.e. the culture here is skeptical of off-line sources even if allowed) also you can set Author in your camera setting, which gets picked up in the Exif (that does take some planning). the standard upload wizard is designed for people and their snapshots, not museums with their metadata, but with open source software, we have custom tools (that can be hard to find).

also, here is some m:GLAM information; you might want to meetup with GLAM volunteers in your area - w:Wikipedia:Meetup/LA they have a nice facebook group, and can have face to face conversations. cheers Slowking4 § Richard Arthur Norton's revenge 21:42, 15 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Hi Susan M Anderson. It's important to try and keep in mind that Commons and Wikipedia are really two separate sites serving two different roles. Commons is pretty much exclusively concerned with images, specifically image copyrights. So, as long as the file's are properly licensed and are within Commons' scope, they are unlikely to be deleted. Wikipedia, on the other hand, is more concerned with encyclopedic textual content, and using an image in an article depends on more than just its copyright. As I posted on the Bowers article's talk page, too many images without a strong contextual connection to article content is generally not considered a good thing by the Wikipedia community. The article is about the museum, but it's not intend to be an image gallery for simply showing various items in the museum's collection. -- Marchjuly (talk) 22:18, 15 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Museum's permissions email has been received[edit]

Hi Susan M Anderson. It looks like OTRS has received the museum's email and that license verification is underway. You can see this for yourself by clicking on any of the files. The OTRS volunteer verifying the files has change the template from Template:OTRS pending to Template:OTRS received, and they will change it again to Template:OTRS permission if everything is in order. I'm not sure exactly what they do if there's a problem, but perhaps they will either notify the museum by email, post something here on your user talk page, or do both. -- Marchjuly (talk) 05:19, 16 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Dear Marchjuly, thank you for letting me know and for all your help. I applaud the communal nature of Wikipedia and its contributors, like you, who put so much time into it. I won't have time to contribute again for awhile (I have a job and family I've been ignoring) although it will be easier next time, I'm sure. I will keep my eye out for any problems with the photo permissions. Best, Susan M Anderson (talk) 19:02, 16 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]

User talk:Susan M Anderson

Contents

Copyright and permission[edit]

Thank You[edit]

Send this[edit]

Some stroopwafels for you![edit]

Museum's permissions email has been received[edit]

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User talk:Susan M Anderson

Copyright and permission[edit]

Thank You[edit]

Send this[edit]

Some stroopwafels for you![edit]

Museum's permissions email has been received[edit]

Navigation menu

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