User talk:Joshua Jonathan

Archive 1

Map

Could you please revert the last edits of user Aljaffari? The map regarding r1a origins (Underhill) was revised by a new user but it does not resembling what the source exactly says. (source says "vicinity of Iran, East Anatolia and Caucasus" but user added other regions to the map). Your version is more accurate. I can't revert it and I do not why! I am just tryin' to revert but it says "it has already been undo". What is that? 85.110.218.28 20:53, 13 November 2016 (UTC)

Actually, I think it's more accurate now. I have no idea how to 'upgrade' an existing image; maybe Aljaffari can help us here. I'd like to add Pamjav (2012); when you think about it, a steppe origin makes much more sense, since getting R1a1a out of Iran into the steppes is a brainbreaker. Joshua Jonathan (talk) 05:36, 14 November 2016 (UTC)

Your version is more accurate because as I said above, his version includes additional places (e.g. parts of Mesopotamia or Iran-Mesopotamia border) that are not in the source. I mean, its southern parts were exaggerrated by the user. By the way, why Underhill's proposition regarding r1a origin is brought to the forefront? (It is filled by red while others are not filled with their colors and thus Underhill theory has become more remerkable) Regards, 88.254.67.114 06:49, 14 November 2016 (UTC)

I'd have to check the sources again. Let's wait for a reply by Aljaffari. Anyway, the suggestions for it's place of origin still reach from the middle East to the steppes; that's not very precise, though I think it should be north of the Caucasus. Joshua Jonathan (talk) 06:53, 14 November 2016 (UTC)

OK, it would be nice if you check it. And what do you think about my other concern? It should back to "18:50, 8 November 2016 revision" at least. I mean, why the map is filled by color while others are not? And sorry for my bad English. I cannot explain myself exactly. I hope you understand my concerns. Cheers. 88.254.67.114 07:28, 14 November 2016 (UTC)

Your English is not worse than mine; I recognize (recognize?) the limitations of not being a native English speaker. Regarding the color: I probably prefer it, because it makes clearer what the proposed place of origin is. One more thought on the 'exact' origins: Underhill himself is quite vague, isn't he? "The vicinity of Iran" (2014); that could be Zargos, northern Mesopatamia, eastern Anataloia, southern Cuacasus, northern Caucasus, you name it. Joshua Jonathan (talk) 07:45, 14 November 2016 (UTC)

You misunderstood me, i think. I am talking about the "format". I mean why the map regarding Underhill's proposition is filled with colour(red) while the other maps regarding other scholar's propositions are not filled with colours? 'Cause the filled map takes more attention than others and it is not fair. If we do not favor one theory/propositions over other, all the maps should have the same format. Am I wrong? 88.254.67.114 08:25, 14 November 2016 (UTC)

Underhill (2014) writes:

• "we conclude that the initial episodes of haplogroup R1a diversification likely occurred in the vicinity of present-day Iran."
• "the initial episodes of R1a-M420 diversification occurred in the vicinity of Iran and Eastern Turkey, and we estimate that diversification downstream of M417/Page7 occurred ~5800 years ago."

R1a is the "base" of R1a; aacording to yfull.com, it originated 18,300 ybp (Sharma says 22,000 ybp). M417 is the parent of Z282 and Z93; it appeared later than the R1a-base. Well, thank you for questioning; it forced me to look again, and now I've clarified this in the article itself. NB: there's another article which links the development of R1a to various ancient cultures; it envisions the initial spread of R1a from Anatolia to the Balkan, from where it went to the Yamna-culture. The rest you can imagine, I guess. I'll add that info to the article. Joshua Jonathan (talk) 08:30, 14 November 2016 (UTC)

Could you please send me the link regarding Pamjav et al. (2012)? I have checked but cannot found it on the net. Bests...

PS: Don't you agree with me regarding the format of maps? I think, the formats of the maps should be same as I mentioned above. 88.254.67.114 08:41, 14 November 2016 (UTC)

Pamjav is behibd a paywall, onfortunately; only the abstract is available. But I'll Pamjav again too. Regarding the format: no, I didn't misunderstood you; I also meant the filled shape; I have no objection to it. What are the other propositions, apart from India? Joshua Jonathan (talk) 12:06, 14 November 2016 (UTC)

Thanks, then would you please fix the format? Because It is weird but I cannot revert it, as I said above. That is the reason why I request it from you on your talk page. Cheers. 88.254.67.114 13:13, 14 November 2016 (UTC)

I have read the Pamjav et al. (2012) but there is very limited information there. I am not sure the map is %100 correct-Its southern border seem a bit exaggerated (it includes almost the whole Syria and even some parts of western Iraq. I do not think r1a has to do with these regions. In R1a-related articles, with "Middle East", the authors mostly refer to Anatolia and parts of Iran.) 88.254.67.114 08:55, 16 November 2016 (UTC)

Here's the other article I referred to: C.B. Horvath, R1a subclades and bronze age migrations on the eurasian steppes. There are mistakes in this article, though; Horvath gives 5,000 BCE as the date for the split of L664, whereas yfull.com gives 4,700 ybp for its formation. That's a difference of 2,300 years... Joshua Jonathan (talk) 12:17, 14 November 2016 (UTC)

Actually, there are plenty of theories and "findings" regarding R1a (and its subclades) and IE origins and many of them are undue. If we try to show all of them, we'll cause a mess. So, in this case, I suggest to represent "well-established" theories on the article. Indian origin hypotheses seem undue. However, they could be mentioned on the article. My suggestion is that there should be 2 subtitle under the "Origins" section: "Steppe (Kurgan) proposition" and "Other theories". Anyway, it is up to you. Regards. 88.254.67.114 13:13, 14 November 2016 (UTC)

Ah, sorry. I have just read the article and noticed that you have already mentioned that the Indian hypothesis is against the mainstream view: "This is incompatible with the mainstream scholarly view, which states that the Indo-Aryan languages originated outside India." So, there is no problem. The article seems very good, except the format of the map:) Best wishes...88.254.67.114 13:20, 14 November 2016 (UTC)

Thanks for the updated map. However, two mistakes have to be corrected: 1. The "Migration of Yamnaya-related people" regarding Tokharian is contradicted and outdated as reported in the Text by the paper of Zhang et al. 2021! 2. Correct "Indo-Celtc" to "Italo-Celticc" (wonder nobody else up to now noted this). Thank You.HJJHolm (talk) 14:31, 3 September 2023 (UTC)

Uploading file

Joshua, I want to add some images to the Commons but I have some problems regarding the copyvio. It would be nice, if you suggest me some links that I can find free images. Bests. 88.254.67.114 13:27, 14 November 2016 (UTC)

At Google, you can filter for user/reproduction rights. Joshua Jonathan (talk) 14:12, 14 November 2016 (UTC)

I know but only very few images I can find there. Anyway, thank you. 88.254.67.114 08:49, 16 November 2016 (UTC)

I want to upload some coins and images of old empires. Commons policy says that after 71 years, it is free to use images. However, the coins that I have uploaded were deleted last year. 88.254.67.114 09:09, 16 November 2016 (UTC)

IE migrations gif

— Preceding unsigned comment was added by 78.160.9.108 (talk) 20:55, 16 December 2016 (UTC)

Hi,

Your file regarding IE migrations is erroneous. Armenians are East Anatolians, not NW Iranians. Additionally, place of BMAC is also wrong. BMAC was at north of the Yaz culture and was very close to the Caspian Sea. You should modify the map.78.160.9.108 16:47, 16 December 2016 (UTC)

You can also check this map. Your map actually shows the place of Bactria and dismisses Margiana. 78.160.9.108 16:55, 16 December 2016 (UTC)

The GIF is an approximation, not an exact description in all the details. Its major aim is to provide an overview, 'to get the picture'. Anyway, I'll keep a correction of the BMAC-position in mind; thanks. Joshua Jonathan (talk) 20:07, 16 December 2016 (UTC)

Thanks, it would be good. 78.160.9.108 20:55, 16 December 2016 (UTC)

Hi your map is deeply wrong regarging Italy: Italics lived from Umbria to Calabria, while Celts, Veneti and Ligures occupedied the Northern part of the country. Can you change that? Thanx — Preceding unsigned comment was added by 79.27.156.35 (talk) 21:47, 30 December 2016 (UTC)

Armenians are not Iranic and should have their own separate domain. Also your first Armenian domain is too southwest and too small. --130.126.255.108 14:15, 14 April 2017 (UTC)

It's still work in progress... Joshua Jonathan (talk) 14:34, 14 April 2017 (UTC)

Image without license

File:European IE-migrations.jpeg

---

Thank you for providing images to Wikimedia Commons. Please keep in mind that images and other files on Commons must be under a free license and should be useful to the Wikimedia projects. To allow others to use your files, some additional information must be given on the description page. Most importantly:

• Describe what it is about in a short sentence. (What does the image show?)
• State the author and the date of creation. If you made it yourself, say so explicitly. If it is from another Wikimedia user, link to the person's local user page. Best to use CommonsHelper.
• If you did not create the file yourself, state the source you got it from.
• Add a copyright tag - images without an appropriate license tag will be deleted.
• Add the image to one or more gallery pages and/or appropriate categories, so it can be found by others. To find out where an image belongs, you can use CommonsSense.

If you copied the file from another wiki, please copy all information given there and say who uploaded it to that wiki. Use CommonsHelper.

It is recommended to use Template:Information to put that information on the description page. Have a look at Template talk:Information for details of the use of this template.

You can edit the description page and change the text. Uploading a new version of the file does not change the description of the file.

Please add as much information as possible. If there is not sufficient information, the file may have to be deleted. For more information, follow the Commons:First steps guide. If you need help or have questions, please ask at the Help desk.

Thank you.

This message was added automatically by MifterBot ^{(Talk • Contribs • Owner)}, if you need some help about it, please read the text above again and follow the links in it, if you still need help ask at the ->Commons:Help desk in any language you like to use. --MifterBot ^{(Talk • Contribs • Owner)} 11:04, 8 December 2017 (UTC)

R1a map

I tried to upload a new refined version of this map, but I can see only the old map in the file history. Any idea how to proceed? --Aljaffari (talk) 22:07, 15 April 2018 (UTC)

Isn't this the only version? Joshua Jonathan (talk) 05:51, 16 April 2018 (UTC)

Yes, it's the only version, but somehow the file actualisation was delayed. Maybe I will refine it a last time, because Klyosov (2011) also mentioned small populations in South Siberia and North-China with the most ancient common ancestors of R1a of 22,000 years before present when grouped together with Andra Pradesh Indians. Other ancient common ancestors were reported to have migrated from South Siberia/northern China to India 12,000 years ago. The migration route continued "across Tibet and Hindustan, and then along the Iranian Plateau, from Asia Minor and finally into Europe. Some remnants of ancient R1a1 were left in Cambodia, Nepal, Oman, Israel, Iraq, Egypt, Crete, the Caucasus, Russia, Estonia (the respective haplotypes are recovered from data published in Underhill et al., 2009, Zhong et al., 2010, Shou et al., 2010). Their common ancestors as thusly reconstructed, lived from 20,000 ybp in south Siberia/northern China through 12,000 - 11,000 ybp in Hindustan and 6900 ybp in Uigurs in north-western China." The samples collected in North-Western China consists of branches belonging to R1* haplotypes. --Aljaffari (talk) 11:47, 18 April 2018 (UTC)

Mistake: The study of Klyosov was published in 2012, not 2011. --Aljaffari (talk) 12:17, 18 April 2018 (UTC)

I will revert your changes. Klyosov's works are unreliable. See his article on English WP. --Wario-Man (talk) 08:34, 16 June 2018 (UTC)

I understand. Joshua Jonathan (talk) 08:44, 16 June 2018 (UTC)

I didn't know. I just read his article on English WP where he really claims that the human species originated in Northern Russia. Does anybody of you know better sources for ancient R1a haplotypes in China / India / Iran? --Aljaffari (talk) 11:25, 20 June 2018 (UTC)

Peter Underhill. Joshua Jonathan (talk) 13:11, 20 June 2018 (UTC)

To Joshua Jonathan

REgarding proto-Indo-European Languages

Dear Dr Jonathan, Regarding the gif file on the page, proto-Indo European languages, I would like to know more about Jamna culture/could refer to the river Yamuna, flowing past New Delhi. Delhi is on the Indo(Indus river)-Gangetic plain. The Indus river flows through Punjab and also Pakistan, draining into the Arabian Sea. The Indus Valley civilization is still being studied (Mohenjodaro and Harappa being the main archaeological sites). Dr. D Srilatha (MA Sanskrit, Himachal Pradesh University, Shimla), B 101 Mantri Elite, Bannergatta Rd, Bangalore 560076; d6sri@yahoo.com. Srilatha12 (talk) 04:19, 5 January 2019 (UTC)

Copyright status: File:Uyghar Khaganate 800 CE.jpeg

Copyright status: File:Uyghar Khaganate 800 CE.jpeg

This media may be deleted.

Thanks for uploading File:Uyghar Khaganate 800 CE.jpeg. I notice that the file page either doesn't contain enough information about the license or it contains contradictory information about the license, so the copyright status is unclear. If you created this file yourself, then you must provide a valid copyright tag. For example, you can tag it with {{self|GFDL|cc-by-sa-all}} to release it under the multi-license GFDL plus Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike All-version license or you can tag it with {{PD-self}} to release it into the public domain. (See Commons:Copyright tags for the full list of license tags that you can use.) If you did not create the file yourself or if it is a derivative of another work that is possibly subject to copyright protection, then you must specify where you found it (e.g. usually a link to the web page where you got it), you must provide proof that it has a license that is acceptable for Commons (e.g. usually a link to the terms of use for content from that page), and you must add an appropriate license tag. If you did not create the file yourself and the specific source and license information is not available on the web, you must obtain permission through the VRT system and follow the procedure described there. Note that any unsourced or improperly licensed files will be deleted one week after they have been marked as lacking proper information, as described in criteria for deletion. If you have uploaded other files, please confirm that you have provided the proper information for those files, too. If you have any questions about licenses please ask at Commons:Village pump/Copyright or see our help pages. Thank you.

Magog the Ogre (talk) (contribs) 22:03, 16 July 2019 (UTC)

Mahākāśyapa

Hey Joshua,

Any info on this image: File:Mahakasyapa.jpg? I want to use it.--Farang Rak Tham (talk) 20:53, 18 January 2020 (UTC)

Yorùbá: Farang Rak Tham

well.... the statue is mine; it used to stand in the windowsill, 'till the kittens grew up, and started to climb et windowsill, knocking-off Mahakasyapa. Beaten by a cat... Nt quite helpfull, is it? Regards, Joshua Jonathan (talk) 21:06, 18 January 2020 (UTC)

@Joshua Jonathan: , er... Any indications as to its origins and age? I've already used it in Mahākāśyapa, but I would like to expand on the caption.--Farang Rak Tham (talk) 12:19, 20 January 2020 (UTC)

And coming back to that cat, maybe you should teach it to meditate... --Farang Rak Tham (talk) 12:22, 20 January 2020 (UTC)

No, I really can't remember where I bought it. But it looks like a run-of-the-mill statue, nothing special. Regarding the cat: in contrast to dogs, I do suspect they do have Buddha-nature. Joshua Jonathan (talk) 05:24, 21 January 2020 (UTC)

File:IE expansion.png

File:IE expansion.png has been listed at Commons:Deletion requests so that the community can discuss whether it should be kept or not. We would appreciate it if you could go to voice your opinion about this at its entry. If you created this file, please note that the fact that it has been proposed for deletion does not necessarily mean that we do not value your kind contribution. It simply means that one person believes that there is some specific problem with it, such as a copyright issue. Please see Commons:But it's my own work! for a guide on how to address these issues. Please remember to respond to and – if appropriate – contradict the arguments supporting deletion. Arguments which focus on the nominator will not affect the result of the nomination. Thank you!

Fæ (talk) 14:16, 26 August 2020 (UTC)