English subtitles for clip: File:4-21-09- White House Press Briefing.webm
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1 00:00:07,633 --> 00:00:10,503 MR. GIBBS: My apologies for being tardy -- I never worked in 2 00:00:10,500 --> 00:00:13,670 high school, but I ask your patience on that. 3 00:00:13,667 --> 00:00:17,997 Let me make a couple of quick announcements before I take some 4 00:00:18,000 --> 00:00:20,630 of your questions. 5 00:00:20,633 --> 00:00:22,663 First, on the Middle East. 6 00:00:22,667 --> 00:00:24,837 Following on a successful meeting with King Abdullah of 7 00:00:24,834 --> 00:00:28,304 Jordan, the President has invited other key partners in 8 00:00:28,300 --> 00:00:30,470 the effort to achieve a comprehensive peace in the 9 00:00:30,467 --> 00:00:34,267 Middle East to the White House in the coming weeks. 10 00:00:34,266 --> 00:00:37,036 We are actively working to finalize dates for the visits of 11 00:00:37,033 --> 00:00:40,503 President Hosni Mubarak of Egypt, Prime Minister Benjamin 12 00:00:40,500 --> 00:00:44,370 Netanyahu of Israel and President Mahmoud Abbas of the 13 00:00:44,367 --> 00:00:46,897 Palestinian Authority. 14 00:00:46,900 --> 00:00:49,170 With each of them the President will discuss ways the United 15 00:00:49,166 --> 00:00:53,436 States can strengthen and deepen our partnerships with them, as 16 00:00:53,433 --> 00:00:56,333 well as the steps all parties must take to help achieve peace 17 00:00:56,333 --> 00:00:59,663 between Israelis and Palestinians and between Israel 18 00:00:59,667 --> 00:01:01,137 and the Arab states. 19 00:01:01,133 --> 00:01:02,733 Q: Separate or the same? 20 00:01:02,734 --> 00:01:03,834 MR. GIBBS: Separate meetings. 21 00:01:03,834 --> 00:01:08,364 No that would be -- we're going to go to Europe and do it all in 22 00:01:08,367 --> 00:01:11,737 one day, just to keep you guys on your toes. 23 00:01:11,734 --> 00:01:12,864 (Laughter.) 24 00:01:12,867 --> 00:01:15,467 No, it is likely going to be all separately over the course 25 00:01:15,467 --> 00:01:17,737 of several weeks. 26 00:01:17,734 --> 00:01:19,164 Q: Several weeks -- 27 00:01:19,166 --> 00:01:19,466 Q: Not in the same weeks? 28 00:01:19,467 --> 00:01:20,767 Q: So we can put down our BlackBerrys. 29 00:01:20,767 --> 00:01:21,697 MR. GIBBS: I doubt it. 30 00:01:21,700 --> 00:01:22,700 Yes. 31 00:01:22,700 --> 00:01:25,730 (Laughter.) 32 00:01:25,734 --> 00:01:28,034 Q: All in May? 33 00:01:28,033 --> 00:01:30,033 MR. GIBBS: I don't have the total guidance on whether or not 34 00:01:30,033 --> 00:01:32,563 it will be all in May, but -- 35 00:01:32,567 --> 00:01:36,497 Q: By the end of May, do you think -- before Normandy? 36 00:01:36,500 --> 00:01:38,370 Q: Yes, before Normandy? 37 00:01:38,367 --> 00:01:44,737 MR. GIBBS: I think in many ways that's likely, yes. 38 00:01:44,734 --> 00:01:49,364 Lastly -- if you guys haven't received a notice on this, you 39 00:01:49,367 --> 00:01:52,667 will soon -- the President will hold a town hall meeting in 40 00:01:52,667 --> 00:02:00,097 suburban St. Louis, Missouri, on April 29th, where he will give a 41 00:02:00,100 --> 00:02:03,200 progress report on the administration and take 42 00:02:03,200 --> 00:02:06,670 questions from Missourians about the administration's 43 00:02:06,667 --> 00:02:09,137 agenda looking forward. 44 00:02:09,133 --> 00:02:14,733 You all will get a travel notification about that. 45 00:02:14,734 --> 00:02:16,264 Q: Next hundred days -- 46 00:02:16,266 --> 00:02:19,666 Q hundred days -- 47 00:02:19,667 --> 00:02:20,997 MR. GIBBS: Interesting. 48 00:02:21,000 --> 00:02:23,370 You guys are -- and you know, Mark Knoller isn't even here and 49 00:02:23,367 --> 00:02:25,737 he would be so darn proud of each and every one of you. 50 00:02:25,734 --> 00:02:29,564 (Laughter.) 51 00:02:29,567 --> 00:02:34,837 Go figure that we might want to leave town on April 29th. 52 00:02:34,834 --> 00:02:37,134 Yes, indeed. 53 00:02:37,133 --> 00:02:40,303 Veritable Hallmark holiday. 54 00:02:40,300 --> 00:02:42,430 Mr. Babbington, wearing a Carolina blue shirt but not a 55 00:02:42,433 --> 00:02:44,303 Carolina blue tie, go ahead. 56 00:02:44,300 --> 00:02:45,170 Q: Thanks for noticing. 57 00:02:45,166 --> 00:02:46,066 Thanks, Robert. 58 00:02:46,066 --> 00:02:49,696 A two-part question, if I may, on CIA interrogation practices. 59 00:02:49,700 --> 00:02:53,300 The President said today that if there is to be more inquiry into 60 00:02:53,300 --> 00:02:56,270 how these policies came about that he'd like to see it outside 61 00:02:56,266 --> 00:02:59,536 of the typical hearing process with independent participants 62 00:02:59,533 --> 00:03:02,663 who are above reproach and have credibility. 63 00:03:02,667 --> 00:03:05,667 Is he envisioning maybe a panel without members of Congress, 64 00:03:05,667 --> 00:03:07,497 something along the 9/11 Commission? 65 00:03:07,500 --> 00:03:15,830 MR. GIBBS: Well, I think in general, without sort of getting 66 00:03:15,834 --> 00:03:19,234 into the specifics of who or what might comprise something 67 00:03:19,233 --> 00:03:23,203 like that, I wouldn't preclude any member of Congress from 68 00:03:23,200 --> 00:03:24,630 being part of that. 69 00:03:24,633 --> 00:03:33,463 I think the President said that he is fearful that we are -- 70 00:03:33,467 --> 00:03:37,637 this could become overly politicized. 71 00:03:37,633 --> 00:03:45,703 And I think that the President would see a 9/11 Commission as a 72 00:03:45,700 --> 00:03:50,500 -- to be, in all honesty, a model for how any investigation 73 00:03:50,500 --> 00:03:54,500 or commission might be set up because I think we can all 74 00:03:54,500 --> 00:03:59,700 understand that the 9/11 Commission was comprised of very 75 00:03:59,700 --> 00:04:04,730 respected members that, despite being Democrats or Republicans, 76 00:04:04,734 --> 00:04:09,334 put their party identification away in order to answer some 77 00:04:09,333 --> 00:04:10,933 very serious questions. 78 00:04:10,934 --> 00:04:16,534 So without prejudging whether a commission should be set up, I 79 00:04:16,533 --> 00:04:22,563 think that's what he had in mind in answering that question. 80 00:04:22,567 --> 00:04:24,997 Q: It sounded as though the President took a somewhat 81 00:04:25,000 --> 00:04:28,370 different policy today than his Chief of Staff did on Sunday 82 00:04:28,367 --> 00:04:32,397 regarding possible prosecution of those who devised the policiy. 83 00:04:32,400 --> 00:04:34,900 The President said today, regarding those who'd formulated 84 00:04:34,900 --> 00:04:37,500 these legal decisions, that that's more of a decision for 85 00:04:37,500 --> 00:04:38,900 the Attorney General. 86 00:04:38,900 --> 00:04:41,400 And Rahm Emanuel said on Sunday, for those who devised the 87 00:04:41,400 --> 00:04:43,670 policy, he -- being the President -- believes they 88 00:04:43,667 --> 00:04:45,067 should not be prosecuted. 89 00:04:45,066 --> 00:04:46,366 Is that a shift in position? 90 00:04:46,367 --> 00:04:50,697 MR. GIBBS: Well, let's -- instead of referring to what 91 00:04:50,700 --> 00:04:53,270 anybody might have said, I think it's important -- or anything 92 00:04:53,266 --> 00:04:55,236 that I might have said -- it's important to refer to what the 93 00:04:55,233 --> 00:05:02,533 President said, and what he said over the course of many months, 94 00:05:02,533 --> 00:05:06,803 in all honestly, because this dates back to questions that he 95 00:05:06,800 --> 00:05:10,730 received -- has received in press conferences or even during 96 00:05:10,734 --> 00:05:13,804 the transition, and that is, very much as he said -- 97 00:05:13,800 --> 00:05:17,430 reiterated today, that he says as a general deal, I think we 98 00:05:17,433 --> 00:05:21,103 should be looking forward and not backward. 99 00:05:21,100 --> 00:05:28,030 The President has also said he does not believe that people are 100 00:05:28,033 --> 00:05:30,933 above the rule of law. 101 00:05:30,934 --> 00:05:34,434 And the President stated accurately that any 102 00:05:34,433 --> 00:05:38,203 determination as to whether a law was broken would rightly be 103 00:05:38,200 --> 00:05:42,800 made not by the President but by the chief law enforcement 104 00:05:42,800 --> 00:05:44,330 officer of the United States. 105 00:05:44,333 --> 00:05:46,903 Q: But it did seem like a sound -- at least a difference in 106 00:05:46,900 --> 00:05:51,130 tone, if not policy, by particularly saying the Attorney 107 00:05:51,133 --> 00:05:55,033 General would be the most likely one to look at those who 108 00:05:55,033 --> 00:05:56,033 devise a policy. 109 00:05:56,033 --> 00:05:59,233 That sounds different from what he has said in the past, where 110 00:05:59,233 --> 00:06:01,003 he always talked about let's just move forward -- 111 00:06:01,000 --> 00:06:02,130 MR. GIBBS: Well, again -- 112 00:06:02,133 --> 00:06:03,263 Q -- and in fact, Rahm Emanuel -- 113 00:06:03,266 --> 00:06:06,996 MR. GIBBS: Well, again, whatever confusion might exist, I think 114 00:06:07,000 --> 00:06:11,230 it's important -- again, the President said throughout the 115 00:06:11,233 --> 00:06:15,133 campaign that he would leave determinations on science in his 116 00:06:15,133 --> 00:06:18,333 administration to scientists; that he would leave 117 00:06:18,333 --> 00:06:22,963 determinations about the law to those in the Justice Department. 118 00:06:22,967 --> 00:06:27,297 And I think he reiterated that today, that people aren't 119 00:06:27,300 --> 00:06:29,530 above the law. 120 00:06:29,533 --> 00:06:34,133 I do think it's important to make a distinguishing -- to 121 00:06:34,133 --> 00:06:38,863 distinguish exactly what the President said last week. 122 00:06:38,867 --> 00:06:43,737 The President believes and was assured by the Justice 123 00:06:43,734 --> 00:06:47,504 Department that those that have acted in good faith on what they 124 00:06:47,500 --> 00:06:53,230 believed was legal won't be prosecuted. 125 00:06:53,233 --> 00:06:55,903 The President still believes that. 126 00:06:55,900 --> 00:06:56,770 Yes, ma'am. 127 00:06:56,767 --> 00:06:59,437 Q: Robert, I just want to follow up on Chuck's question, because 128 00:06:59,433 --> 00:07:02,003 it does seem that there is a shift there. 129 00:07:02,000 --> 00:07:05,530 Because if you look at what the President said today, he said, 130 00:07:05,533 --> 00:07:09,633 with regard to those who formulated the legal decisions, 131 00:07:09,633 --> 00:07:12,163 he said that that was a decision for the Attorney General, and he 132 00:07:12,166 --> 00:07:14,366 said he didn't want to prejudge that. 133 00:07:14,367 --> 00:07:18,297 But Rahm Emanuel on Sunday said that those who devise the 134 00:07:18,300 --> 00:07:22,630 policy, he believes that they should -- that they were -- 135 00:07:22,633 --> 00:07:25,503 should not be prosecuted either, so -- 136 00:07:25,500 --> 00:07:29,930 MR. GIBBS: Well, to clear up any confusion on anything that might 137 00:07:29,934 --> 00:07:33,064 have been said, I would point you to what the President said. 138 00:07:33,066 --> 00:07:35,266 Q: Did he have a change of heart on this issue over the 139 00:07:35,266 --> 00:07:36,436 last few days? 140 00:07:36,433 --> 00:07:37,403 Is he -- 141 00:07:37,400 --> 00:07:39,200 MR. GIBBS: No, I think the President, as I said, you can 142 00:07:39,200 --> 00:07:45,570 date back to the -- I think was asked, at least I recall it 143 00:07:45,567 --> 00:07:50,797 being asked in the transition -- and discussed the rule of law, 144 00:07:50,800 --> 00:07:53,300 that nobody in the country is above that rule of law. 145 00:07:53,300 --> 00:07:56,470 Q: And just on the issue of a further accounting, which he 146 00:07:56,467 --> 00:08:00,137 talked about today and which Chuck also asked you about, is 147 00:08:00,133 --> 00:08:03,963 he actively considering a 9/11-type of panel? 148 00:08:03,967 --> 00:08:04,867 Is he -- 149 00:08:04,867 --> 00:08:06,067 MR. GIBBS: No, I think -- 150 00:08:06,066 --> 00:08:07,596 Q -- it seemed like he was trying to get at something like 151 00:08:07,600 --> 00:08:11,630 that, he said that he would like to see something outside of 152 00:08:11,633 --> 00:08:13,333 the hearing process. 153 00:08:13,333 --> 00:08:15,133 MR. GIBBS: Well, I think he was asked, if something were to be 154 00:08:15,133 --> 00:08:17,533 set up, how would it be set up. 155 00:08:17,533 --> 00:08:18,263 How would -- 156 00:08:18,266 --> 00:08:19,136 Q: Right. 157 00:08:19,133 --> 00:08:20,403 But wouldn't he be the one to set it up? 158 00:08:20,400 --> 00:08:23,700 MR. GIBBS: Not necessarily. 159 00:08:23,700 --> 00:08:30,030 I'm reminded that Congress has a pretty big say in something like 160 00:08:30,033 --> 00:08:36,003 that, given their ability and their lawmaking power. 161 00:08:36,000 --> 00:08:38,670 Q: Is he conferring with people on that? 162 00:08:38,667 --> 00:08:41,867 MR. GIBBS: I will check if it's something that's active. 163 00:08:41,867 --> 00:08:48,597 Again, the President's position is to look forward. 164 00:08:48,600 --> 00:08:50,970 If there are those that want to look back, I think the President 165 00:08:50,967 --> 00:08:53,967 strongly believes that anything has to be done in a way that 166 00:08:53,967 --> 00:09:00,867 doesn't, as he said today, doesn't overly politicize and 167 00:09:00,867 --> 00:09:06,597 hamper either the ability of anybody involved to carry out 168 00:09:06,600 --> 00:09:08,600 the functions of their job or the functions that 169 00:09:08,600 --> 00:09:10,170 protect our country. 170 00:09:10,166 --> 00:09:10,896 Yes, sir. 171 00:09:10,900 --> 00:09:12,470 Q: Robert, what changed over the last 24 hours, though? 172 00:09:12,467 --> 00:09:14,867 Because yesterday you were flat in saying that we're not going 173 00:09:14,867 --> 00:09:17,397 there, as Rahm was on Sunday. 174 00:09:17,400 --> 00:09:19,830 And in the last 24 hours we've seen groups like moveon.org on 175 00:09:19,834 --> 00:09:22,704 the left come out and write a petition to the Attorney General 176 00:09:22,700 --> 00:09:25,230 saying they want accountability from the Bush administration. 177 00:09:25,233 --> 00:09:28,633 Is this an example of this White House giving in to pressure 178 00:09:28,633 --> 00:09:30,663 from the left? 179 00:09:30,667 --> 00:09:33,497 MR. GIBBS: I don't -- I have not, and I doubt the President 180 00:09:33,500 --> 00:09:36,900 has been on moveon.org in the last 24 hours, so, no. 181 00:09:36,900 --> 00:09:37,800 Q: Okay. 182 00:09:37,800 --> 00:09:40,870 But then why was Rahm so firm on Sunday, and you were firm 183 00:09:40,867 --> 00:09:44,097 yesterday in this very room; what changed? 184 00:09:44,100 --> 00:09:46,730 MR. GIBBS: Again, to clear up any of the confusion, I would 185 00:09:46,734 --> 00:09:53,804 simply say that the President reiterated that there is -- 186 00:09:53,800 --> 00:09:56,270 that, as he said, his general posture is to look forward, and 187 00:09:56,266 --> 00:09:58,936 that at the same time, nobody is above the law. 188 00:09:58,934 --> 00:10:00,764 Q: Why would there be any confusion, as you call it? 189 00:10:00,767 --> 00:10:02,067 I don't understand. 190 00:10:02,066 --> 00:10:03,466 This is a pretty straightforward topic. 191 00:10:03,467 --> 00:10:06,297 MR. GIBBS: Well, I predicated your question then posited some 192 00:10:06,300 --> 00:10:08,330 confusion with acknowledgment. 193 00:10:08,333 --> 00:10:09,403 Q: Did you misspeak? 194 00:10:09,400 --> 00:10:11,300 Or did Rahm misspeak? 195 00:10:11,300 --> 00:10:13,900 MR. GIBBS: You know, I -- whether or not anybody was 196 00:10:13,900 --> 00:10:19,470 confused or misspoke, I would take what the President said as 197 00:10:19,467 --> 00:10:23,237 -- I'm informed he got more votes than either of the two of us. 198 00:10:23,233 --> 00:10:25,063 Q: Can I follow on -- Vice President Cheney yesterday 199 00:10:25,066 --> 00:10:27,536 weighed in on this and said he found it disturbing that the 200 00:10:27,533 --> 00:10:29,903 President put these memos out. 201 00:10:29,900 --> 00:10:33,370 And he also is charging, if you can answer, that this White 202 00:10:33,367 --> 00:10:36,237 House basically selectively declassified some of these 203 00:10:36,233 --> 00:10:38,903 torture memos, and that there are other memos somewhere in the 204 00:10:38,900 --> 00:10:43,500 CIA that would show that the interrogation actually yielded 205 00:10:43,500 --> 00:10:45,900 what the former Vice President would call good intelligence 206 00:10:45,900 --> 00:10:47,200 that prevented terror attacks. 207 00:10:47,200 --> 00:10:48,230 How do you answer that? 208 00:10:48,233 --> 00:10:52,903 MR. GIBBS: Well, I would suggest that you contact the CIA. 209 00:10:52,900 --> 00:10:53,730 You might be -- 210 00:10:53,734 --> 00:10:54,464 Q: Well, they're not about to turn these over to me or anyone 211 00:10:54,467 --> 00:10:55,737 else in this room? 212 00:10:55,734 --> 00:10:56,664 MR. GIBBS: Including me. 213 00:10:56,667 --> 00:10:57,837 (Laughter.) 214 00:10:57,834 --> 00:10:59,404 Q: But if the President wanted to declassify it, he could. 215 00:10:59,400 --> 00:11:00,900 He just declassified it -- 216 00:11:00,900 --> 00:11:02,430 MR. GIBBS: Yes, I would -- 217 00:11:02,433 --> 00:11:05,103 Q: So the question is, are there other memos that you're keeping under wraps? 218 00:11:05,100 --> 00:11:08,870 MR. GIBBS: And I just said, I don't know. 219 00:11:08,867 --> 00:11:13,367 Again, that's why I would -- I know sometimes when I ask you to 220 00:11:13,367 --> 00:11:15,667 contact the agencies with the wherewithal to answer your 221 00:11:15,667 --> 00:11:18,437 questions, you think that I'm not answering your question. 222 00:11:18,433 --> 00:11:20,733 But as you just said, they're not going to give them to you, 223 00:11:20,734 --> 00:11:24,404 they're coincidentally not going to give them to me. 224 00:11:24,400 --> 00:11:31,200 And I think the best place to ask about their existence is the CIA. 225 00:11:31,200 --> 00:11:33,170 Q: Okay, last point is Vice President Cheney saying he's 226 00:11:33,166 --> 00:11:34,466 disturbed by all of this. 227 00:11:34,467 --> 00:11:40,067 MR. GIBBS: Well, you know, I -- we've had a at least two-year 228 00:11:40,066 --> 00:11:41,836 policy disagreement with the Vice President of the United 229 00:11:41,834 --> 00:11:44,064 States of America. 230 00:11:44,066 --> 00:11:48,036 That policy disagreement is whether or not you can uphold 231 00:11:48,033 --> 00:11:52,003 the values in which this country was founded at the same time 232 00:11:52,000 --> 00:11:55,430 that you protect the citizens that live in that country. 233 00:11:55,433 --> 00:11:57,903 The President of the United States and this administration 234 00:11:57,900 --> 00:11:59,870 believes that you can. 235 00:11:59,867 --> 00:12:02,637 The Vice President has come to, in our opinion, 236 00:12:02,633 --> 00:12:06,033 a different conclusion. 237 00:12:06,033 --> 00:12:09,003 But, again, this was a -- this has been a policy disagreement 238 00:12:09,000 --> 00:12:13,430 for at least the better part of two years, maybe longer than 239 00:12:13,433 --> 00:12:15,463 that, I'd have to go back and look. 240 00:12:15,467 --> 00:12:21,237 But, you know, the President -- the Vice President was also 241 00:12:21,233 --> 00:12:23,433 happy to talk about the way we're conducting our foreign 242 00:12:23,433 --> 00:12:26,963 policy, which has also been a several-year disagreement with 243 00:12:26,967 --> 00:12:28,197 the Vice President. 244 00:12:28,200 --> 00:12:34,170 The President of the United States, President Obama has on 245 00:12:34,166 --> 00:12:40,536 his first two foreign trips changed the image of America 246 00:12:40,533 --> 00:12:44,433 around the world through leadership and engagement that 247 00:12:44,433 --> 00:12:48,033 advances our national interests, makes us safer and more 248 00:12:48,033 --> 00:12:52,733 secure, and stronger. 249 00:12:52,734 --> 00:12:55,934 I think that's the main disagreement that we have with 250 00:12:55,934 --> 00:12:57,204 the Vice President. 251 00:12:57,200 --> 00:13:00,130 Q: So as we come to the end of his first hundred days is the 252 00:13:00,133 --> 00:13:03,103 President's hope of bipartisanship dead now or -- I 253 00:13:03,100 --> 00:13:05,470 mean, you've got various Republicans saying -- 254 00:13:05,467 --> 00:13:07,567 MR. GIBBS: Tell the Vice President that -- 255 00:13:07,567 --> 00:13:10,267 Q: No, various Republicans also beyond the former Vice President 256 00:13:10,266 --> 00:13:13,766 saying the President has been weak, the photos with Chavez. 257 00:13:13,767 --> 00:13:15,837 Do you have any hope of moving forward and having 258 00:13:15,834 --> 00:13:17,704 bipartisanship in the second first hundred -- the 259 00:13:17,700 --> 00:13:19,370 second hundred days? 260 00:13:19,367 --> 00:13:20,967 MR. GIBBS: The second first hundred days? 261 00:13:20,967 --> 00:13:22,067 Q: Can the rest of us leave? 262 00:13:22,066 --> 00:13:23,736 (Laughter.) 263 00:13:23,734 --> 00:13:25,004 MR. GIBBS: No, please stay. 264 00:13:25,000 --> 00:13:29,930 (Laughter.) 265 00:13:29,934 --> 00:13:32,764 The President, as I've said and as the President has continued 266 00:13:32,767 --> 00:13:40,697 to do, will reach out to those that want to work with him on 267 00:13:40,700 --> 00:13:44,270 the priorities in making our country not just safer, 268 00:13:44,266 --> 00:13:50,836 but stronger economically. 269 00:13:50,834 --> 00:13:56,834 In terms of -- again, the Vice President had a particular way 270 00:13:56,834 --> 00:14:00,864 of conducting the foreign policy of this country. 271 00:14:00,867 --> 00:14:05,737 The election, I think, spoke to a change in the way that foreign 272 00:14:05,734 --> 00:14:08,804 policy is done, as I said yesterday, in order to make 273 00:14:08,800 --> 00:14:11,770 us more secure. 274 00:14:11,767 --> 00:14:14,497 Again, I'll back this up and give the answer to some of you 275 00:14:14,500 --> 00:14:16,900 that I did yesterday. 276 00:14:16,900 --> 00:14:19,030 Go pull the pictures of three years ago at the Summit 277 00:14:19,033 --> 00:14:22,303 of the Americas. 278 00:14:22,300 --> 00:14:24,730 Maybe the former Vice President of the United States thinks we 279 00:14:24,734 --> 00:14:28,534 are more secure in the important region of the world of Latin 280 00:14:28,533 --> 00:14:38,863 America with thousands of protestors burning in effigy 281 00:14:38,867 --> 00:14:42,697 something that looks like leaders or an American flag. 282 00:14:42,700 --> 00:14:44,430 I don't think the President -- the current President of the 283 00:14:44,433 --> 00:14:46,963 United States doesn't believe that. 284 00:14:46,967 --> 00:14:49,297 Let's break the tie. 285 00:14:49,300 --> 00:14:51,930 (Inaudible) me, take the Vice President, take 286 00:14:51,934 --> 00:14:53,864 the current President. 287 00:14:53,867 --> 00:14:58,467 I've been asked on occasion what did -- about Prime Minister 288 00:14:58,467 --> 00:15:03,297 Harper of Canada, who talked to NBC yesterday and said, let me 289 00:15:03,300 --> 00:15:07,330 be a bit of a conservative defender of the President -- so 290 00:15:07,333 --> 00:15:10,303 we'll posit him on one side of the political spectrum: "I 291 00:15:10,300 --> 00:15:12,930 thought President Obama did an excellent job of expressing the 292 00:15:12,934 --> 00:15:16,964 values and priorities of the United States of America. 293 00:15:16,967 --> 00:15:20,637 I thought he allowed a dialogue to take place in a good spirit 294 00:15:20,633 --> 00:15:22,233 to animate the room. 295 00:15:22,233 --> 00:15:24,033 And I thought the meetings were productive. 296 00:15:24,033 --> 00:15:26,903 I think it made the United States -- took the United States 297 00:15:26,900 --> 00:15:30,470 to a higher plane than the Venezuelans of the world. 298 00:15:30,467 --> 00:15:33,197 And I think it was very effective at moving the vast 299 00:15:33,200 --> 00:15:37,300 majority of countries, reaffirming a very centrist 300 00:15:37,300 --> 00:15:40,700 position and a very progressive position on the things that 301 00:15:40,700 --> 00:15:46,270 concern us: democracy, human rights, open markets, trade. 302 00:15:46,266 --> 00:15:48,996 I know he got some criticism, but you know, the U.S. is bigger 303 00:15:49,000 --> 00:15:51,700 than Venezuela in the end. 304 00:15:51,700 --> 00:15:54,130 The U.S. is the U.S. 305 00:15:54,133 --> 00:15:56,763 And I thought President Obama led in a way that was very 306 00:15:56,767 --> 00:15:59,337 effective at the conference." 307 00:15:59,333 --> 00:16:04,863 So maybe that's the best summation for the Vice 308 00:16:04,867 --> 00:16:09,267 President's criticism of a change in our foreign policy. 309 00:16:09,266 --> 00:16:11,896 Q: With 60 votes we can stop a filibuster. 310 00:16:11,900 --> 00:16:15,270 MR. GIBBS: We have 60 -- Jake. 311 00:16:15,266 --> 00:16:16,696 (Laughter.) 312 00:16:16,700 --> 00:16:20,230 Q: Is the President of the belief or in possession of 313 00:16:20,233 --> 00:16:24,803 information that members of the Bush administration who 314 00:16:24,800 --> 00:16:30,930 formulated these interrogation policies broke the law? 315 00:16:30,934 --> 00:16:32,634 MR. GIBBS: Again, I think I would point you to the comments 316 00:16:32,633 --> 00:16:36,363 that the President made today, that a determination of who -- 317 00:16:36,367 --> 00:16:41,167 of whether a law was broken or who broke a law was not a 318 00:16:41,166 --> 00:16:44,696 determination that would be made inside the confines of 319 00:16:44,700 --> 00:16:46,230 the White House. 320 00:16:46,233 --> 00:16:49,603 It would rightly be made inside the confines of 321 00:16:49,600 --> 00:16:50,900 the Justice Department. 322 00:16:50,900 --> 00:16:55,030 Q: But I would be the fourth of four that has pointed out that 323 00:16:55,033 --> 00:16:58,003 there is at least some rhetorical change between what 324 00:16:58,000 --> 00:17:01,030 the administration has said in the past on this question of 325 00:17:01,033 --> 00:17:03,833 prosecution, and what the President said today. 326 00:17:03,834 --> 00:17:07,904 And I'm just wondering what changed. 327 00:17:07,900 --> 00:17:12,130 MR. GIBBS: The President was clear, and I would go with what -- 328 00:17:12,133 --> 00:17:14,003 Q: But he hasn't used language like that in the past. 329 00:17:14,000 --> 00:17:15,130 He hasn't said -- 330 00:17:15,133 --> 00:17:16,033 MR. GIBBS: Well, no, no, no. 331 00:17:16,033 --> 00:17:18,903 I don't -- I think the President -- we'll pull it for you, specifically. 332 00:17:18,900 --> 00:17:19,630 I mean, I -- 333 00:17:19,633 --> 00:17:20,633 Q: We've all read it. 334 00:17:20,633 --> 00:17:21,563 MR. GIBBS: Excellent. 335 00:17:21,567 --> 00:17:22,397 We're ahead of the game. 336 00:17:22,400 --> 00:17:25,170 Never mind. 337 00:17:25,166 --> 00:17:27,636 I think when the President states that people are above the 338 00:17:27,633 --> 00:17:31,903 rule of law that he expects that the laws of the United States of 339 00:17:31,900 --> 00:17:33,670 America will be upheld. 340 00:17:33,667 --> 00:17:35,797 Q: But has he -- I guess the question is, has he learned 341 00:17:35,800 --> 00:17:37,670 anything since those previous comments -- 342 00:17:37,667 --> 00:17:38,297 MR. GIBBS: Not that I'm aware of. 343 00:17:38,300 --> 00:17:39,230 Q: -- to (inaudible) his language -- 344 00:17:39,233 --> 00:17:40,263 MR. GIBBS: Not that I'm aware of, no. 345 00:17:40,266 --> 00:17:40,866 Chip. 346 00:17:40,867 --> 00:17:43,137 Q: Are you suggesting, are you saying, that there was 347 00:17:43,133 --> 00:17:47,133 absolutely no change in policy today? 348 00:17:47,133 --> 00:17:52,003 MR. GIBBS: I would -- again, I'd point you to what the President said. 349 00:17:52,000 --> 00:17:53,100 It's -- 350 00:17:53,100 --> 00:17:55,530 Q: Did he change his policy today with regard to -- 351 00:17:55,533 --> 00:17:56,933 MR. GIBBS: I don't think so, no. 352 00:17:56,934 --> 00:17:59,734 I think, again, the President has stated on any number of 353 00:17:59,734 --> 00:18:06,964 occasions -- and as he stated today -- in saying, I think we 354 00:18:06,967 --> 00:18:10,497 should be looking forward and not backward. 355 00:18:10,500 --> 00:18:13,930 I don't think it's altogether newsworthy that the President 356 00:18:13,934 --> 00:18:16,164 believes that the laws of the country should be upheld -- at 357 00:18:16,166 --> 00:18:17,566 least, let's hope not. 358 00:18:17,567 --> 00:18:21,567 Q: But didn't he leave the door open to the kind of we're talking about? 359 00:18:21,567 --> 00:18:22,597 He left the door open. 360 00:18:22,600 --> 00:18:24,900 MR. GIBBS: Well, I think the President understands that if 361 00:18:24,900 --> 00:18:29,230 there -- the President commented on what a panel might look like 362 00:18:29,233 --> 00:18:31,233 if it were to be set up. 363 00:18:31,233 --> 00:18:34,503 Whether that determination is made by members of Congress to 364 00:18:34,500 --> 00:18:37,670 do such a thing -- and I've been asked in this room about 365 00:18:37,667 --> 00:18:41,097 different ideas for different panels to look into many 366 00:18:41,100 --> 00:18:42,670 of those instances. 367 00:18:42,667 --> 00:18:44,737 Q: But he certainly didn't oppose the idea of a panel, and 368 00:18:44,734 --> 00:18:49,604 if he's willing to go along with it, he's looking backwards. 369 00:18:49,600 --> 00:18:51,700 MR. GIBBS: His general -- that's why he didn't propose it, 370 00:18:51,700 --> 00:18:54,500 because he's looking forward. 371 00:18:54,500 --> 00:18:55,270 Chuck. 372 00:18:55,266 --> 00:18:56,136 Q: Let me ask you another question. 373 00:18:56,133 --> 00:18:56,433 MR. GIBBS: Sure. 374 00:18:56,433 --> 00:18:57,233 Q: Has he talked to the Attorney -- 375 00:18:57,233 --> 00:18:58,233 MR. GIBBS: Are you going to filibuster? 376 00:18:58,233 --> 00:18:58,803 (Laughter.) 377 00:18:58,800 --> 00:19:01,730 Q: Has he talked to the -- you don't have 60 votes. 378 00:19:01,734 --> 00:19:02,464 (Laughter.) 379 00:19:02,467 --> 00:19:05,237 Q: Has he talked to the Attorney General about this? 380 00:19:05,233 --> 00:19:06,163 MR. GIBBS: Don't I know. 381 00:19:06,166 --> 00:19:07,996 (Laughter.) 382 00:19:08,000 --> 00:19:11,630 Q: Is there a possibility that the Attorney General was blind 383 00:19:11,633 --> 00:19:14,403 -- and the Justice Department were blind-sided by this? 384 00:19:14,400 --> 00:19:15,400 MR. GIBBS: Blind-sided by? 385 00:19:15,400 --> 00:19:22,030 Q: By his non-change in policy today by what he said today? 386 00:19:22,033 --> 00:19:25,833 Or did he talk to the Attorney General about this ahead of time? 387 00:19:25,834 --> 00:19:27,304 MR. GIBBS: About the commission? 388 00:19:27,300 --> 00:19:30,100 Q: About what he said today in the Oval Office. 389 00:19:30,100 --> 00:19:32,300 Q: Not the commission part, the Attorney General part. 390 00:19:32,300 --> 00:19:33,330 Q: To the prosecution. 391 00:19:33,333 --> 00:19:34,703 Q: Yes, about prosecution. 392 00:19:34,700 --> 00:19:36,970 MR. GIBBS: See, there's confusion. 393 00:19:36,967 --> 00:19:40,267 I don't know when the President last spoke to the Attorney General. 394 00:19:40,266 --> 00:19:42,536 I mean, obviously the Attorney General was involved in 395 00:19:42,533 --> 00:19:48,763 discussions last week about the release of OLC memos. 396 00:19:48,767 --> 00:19:49,567 Chuck. 397 00:19:49,567 --> 00:19:54,667 Q: I guess I'm confused by the rule of law comment, which is, 398 00:19:54,667 --> 00:19:58,797 the President wants to make the exception for the interrogators 399 00:19:58,800 --> 00:20:03,300 that carried out the policy and not hold them accountable, but 400 00:20:03,300 --> 00:20:07,230 potentially leaves open the door for holding the lawyers that 401 00:20:07,233 --> 00:20:10,033 wrote the opinions about the legality of this. 402 00:20:10,033 --> 00:20:14,833 So he is making an exception rather than saying -- is that not right? 403 00:20:14,834 --> 00:20:15,904 MR. GIBBS: No, no. 404 00:20:15,900 --> 00:20:17,830 You're right, you're confused. 405 00:20:17,834 --> 00:20:24,234 The President and the Attorney General, in both of their 406 00:20:24,233 --> 00:20:33,403 statements, said that you have applicators of a policy that 407 00:20:33,400 --> 00:20:39,530 acted in good faith on what they were told to be legally 408 00:20:39,533 --> 00:20:45,203 permissible, and that those people should not be prosecuted. 409 00:20:45,200 --> 00:20:51,100 The President also said today that no one should be above the law. 410 00:20:51,100 --> 00:20:56,700 The President's determination -- I guess it's a little bit like -- 411 00:20:56,700 --> 00:20:58,730 Q: I've watched "A Few Good Men" one too many times, I guess. 412 00:20:58,734 --> 00:21:01,204 But if you're going to start -- 413 00:21:01,200 --> 00:21:02,930 MR. GIBBS: I was going to do a line, but I just stopped -- 414 00:21:02,934 --> 00:21:06,204 (laughter) -- you know, sort of like, "Can you handle the truth, Chuck?" 415 00:21:06,200 --> 00:21:08,170 Q: If you're going to keep going up the ladder here, then where 416 00:21:08,166 --> 00:21:09,196 does it stop? 417 00:21:09,200 --> 00:21:11,630 MR. GIBBS: Well, that's a determination for the legal 418 00:21:11,633 --> 00:21:13,903 department to make. 419 00:21:13,900 --> 00:21:15,070 Again, Chuck, I -- 420 00:21:15,066 --> 00:21:17,136 Q: Those would be bosses of those folks who wrote the legal opinion. 421 00:21:17,133 --> 00:21:19,133 So then does it become Alberto Gonzales? 422 00:21:19,133 --> 00:21:21,203 Then does it become the President of the -- former President? 423 00:21:21,200 --> 00:21:22,400 I mean, where does it -- 424 00:21:22,400 --> 00:21:24,570 MR. GIBBS: Well, no, no -- I think it is important to 425 00:21:24,567 --> 00:21:27,737 understand that the President has stated on any number of 426 00:21:27,734 --> 00:21:31,404 occasions that he's not the chief law enforcement officer 427 00:21:31,400 --> 00:21:33,570 of the United States of America. 428 00:21:33,567 --> 00:21:36,137 We've got pretty good historical examples of what the Attorney 429 00:21:36,133 --> 00:21:39,233 General's power is. 430 00:21:39,233 --> 00:21:44,233 I think a determination as to whether a law was broken should 431 00:21:44,233 --> 00:21:47,233 be made by the Justice Department. 432 00:21:47,233 --> 00:21:51,463 Q: And then if a law was broken in the interpretation of it, the 433 00:21:51,467 --> 00:21:55,237 people that were carrying it out are not held responsible in this case. 434 00:21:55,233 --> 00:21:56,533 MR. GIBBS: Well, I mean, I think -- 435 00:21:56,533 --> 00:21:58,363 Q: That's a flat determination you guys have made. 436 00:21:58,367 --> 00:22:02,767 MR. GIBBS: Yes, because they're acting in accordance with and in 437 00:22:02,767 --> 00:22:06,637 good -- in the good faith of understanding what someone told 438 00:22:06,633 --> 00:22:10,903 them was legally permissible to do. 439 00:22:10,900 --> 00:22:16,030 You know, if somebody tells you the speed limit is 55, and then 440 00:22:16,033 --> 00:22:22,203 you get pulled over for doing 55 and they say, well, sorry, sir, 441 00:22:22,200 --> 00:22:29,570 the speed limit shouldn't be 55 -- well, you're following the law. 442 00:22:29,567 --> 00:22:31,397 Q: Yet if you're in -- have an ignorance of the law, that's 443 00:22:31,400 --> 00:22:34,030 usually not an excuse. 444 00:22:34,033 --> 00:22:36,703 MR. GIBBS: Well, I think the existing -- the existence of the 445 00:22:36,700 --> 00:22:41,770 memos removes the notion that somebody was acting in ignorance 446 00:22:41,767 --> 00:22:42,767 of the law. 447 00:22:42,767 --> 00:22:44,137 Q: Well, let the record show these are two non-lawyers 448 00:22:44,133 --> 00:22:46,163 having -- (laughter) -- having a conversation. 449 00:22:46,166 --> 00:22:49,696 One other question is, both Senators Feinstein -- what seems 450 00:22:49,700 --> 00:22:52,930 to have changed between Sunday, yesterday, and today, both 451 00:22:52,934 --> 00:22:57,364 Senators Feinstein and Feingold both seem to be more -- both 452 00:22:57,367 --> 00:23:03,737 seem to take issue with what Rahm said on Sunday about this. 453 00:23:03,734 --> 00:23:05,834 Did this have some influence on what the President said today? 454 00:23:05,834 --> 00:23:07,604 MR. GIBBS: Not that I'm aware of, no. 455 00:23:07,600 --> 00:23:09,000 Laura. 456 00:23:09,000 --> 00:23:10,800 Q: Two questions, the first, just following up on this. 457 00:23:10,800 --> 00:23:14,100 I guess my question is that if the Justice Department is going 458 00:23:14,100 --> 00:23:17,100 to review whether prosecutions are appropriate for those who 459 00:23:17,100 --> 00:23:18,670 formulated the policy -- 460 00:23:18,667 --> 00:23:21,567 MR. GIBBS: Let's understand what the Justice Department would review. 461 00:23:21,567 --> 00:23:27,167 The Justice Department would review whether or not a law was broken. 462 00:23:27,166 --> 00:23:28,896 That's what the Justice -- 463 00:23:28,900 --> 00:23:31,030 Q: In formulating the policy. 464 00:23:31,033 --> 00:23:34,763 MR. GIBBS: Well, they're sort of the -- they make the -- they're 465 00:23:34,767 --> 00:23:37,997 the ones that determine whether the laws of the country are 466 00:23:38,000 --> 00:23:39,330 being upheld, yes. 467 00:23:39,333 --> 00:23:41,803 Q: But by -- right, because it is the actors they're looking at 468 00:23:41,800 --> 00:23:44,470 are the policymakers, and ultimately -- 469 00:23:44,467 --> 00:23:46,597 MR. GIBBS: Well, I think their charge is ultimate -- their 470 00:23:46,600 --> 00:23:50,430 larger charge is to look at whether the rule of law is being followed. 471 00:23:50,433 --> 00:23:54,803 In specific example, they would determine whether or not a law was broken. 472 00:23:54,800 --> 00:23:55,370 Q: Right. 473 00:23:55,367 --> 00:23:56,897 Well, in this specific example, where they're determining 474 00:23:56,900 --> 00:24:00,430 whether a law was broken in the formulation of the policy, my 475 00:24:00,433 --> 00:24:04,263 question would be, since ultimately, as we all well know, 476 00:24:04,266 --> 00:24:08,336 decisions on policy are finally -- the final decision is made by 477 00:24:08,333 --> 00:24:11,663 the President, why would that not be something you'd hold the 478 00:24:11,667 --> 00:24:12,967 President accountable for? 479 00:24:12,967 --> 00:24:15,097 MR. GIBBS: I don't think -- the President doesn't determine who 480 00:24:15,100 --> 00:24:17,970 the Attorney General charges with breaking the laws of this country. 481 00:24:17,967 --> 00:24:22,537 Q: No, I'm talking about the last President, the previous President. 482 00:24:22,533 --> 00:24:24,363 I'm saying that those legal opinions -- 483 00:24:24,367 --> 00:24:24,837 MR. GIBBS: You confused me. 484 00:24:24,834 --> 00:24:26,204 Q: Okay, I'm sorry, let me try again. 485 00:24:26,200 --> 00:24:27,270 MR. GIBBS: All right, try one more time. 486 00:24:27,266 --> 00:24:31,136 Q: Those legal opinions that formulated policies that led to 487 00:24:31,133 --> 00:24:34,533 torture by this country, those opinions were drafted by lawyers 488 00:24:34,533 --> 00:24:37,433 who worked for the Justice Department, but they were not -- 489 00:24:37,433 --> 00:24:40,503 they were approved by the former President of the United States. 490 00:24:40,500 --> 00:24:44,200 He's the one who makes the final decision on a decision like that. 491 00:24:44,200 --> 00:24:48,600 So why would, logically speaking, if the Attorney 492 00:24:48,600 --> 00:24:50,870 General is going to be reviewing, as he said right 493 00:24:50,867 --> 00:24:53,597 here, with respect to those who formulated those legal 494 00:24:53,600 --> 00:24:55,900 decisions, ultimately the decision on those legal 495 00:24:55,900 --> 00:24:57,400 decisions was the President's. 496 00:24:57,400 --> 00:25:01,070 Why would he not logically be in at least part of the review? 497 00:25:01,066 --> 00:25:04,666 MR. GIBBS: I shouldn't, in this instance, speak either for the 498 00:25:04,667 --> 00:25:08,497 Justice Department or speak in absence of a review about 499 00:25:08,500 --> 00:25:11,770 whether the rule of law was carried out. 500 00:25:11,767 --> 00:25:13,937 I just think it's -- 501 00:25:13,934 --> 00:25:16,104 Q: Is there something wrong with my logic? 502 00:25:16,100 --> 00:25:18,200 MR. GIBBS: No, I think it might be ahead of anything that 503 00:25:18,200 --> 00:25:22,870 determines what has happened. 504 00:25:22,867 --> 00:25:24,237 Q: Can I just ask about something else? 505 00:25:24,233 --> 00:25:24,903 MR. GIBBS: Sure. 506 00:25:24,900 --> 00:25:26,800 Q: It might be a relief for you to have a question on something 507 00:25:26,800 --> 00:25:29,800 else, which is, would you say that the meetings you've 508 00:25:29,800 --> 00:25:32,400 announced on the Middle East coming up are a sign that the 509 00:25:32,400 --> 00:25:36,030 review that was underway on Middle East policy is concluded 510 00:25:36,033 --> 00:25:39,933 and the U.S. is ready to push for a two-state solution? 511 00:25:39,934 --> 00:25:47,734 MR. GIBBS: Well, the President, even in reviewing how we move 512 00:25:47,734 --> 00:25:54,604 forward and are best able to help the two sides create a 513 00:25:54,600 --> 00:25:59,800 lasting peace, has spoken in favor of and continues to 514 00:25:59,800 --> 00:26:02,670 support a two-state solution. 515 00:26:02,667 --> 00:26:04,567 Q: So that's -- so that's what this is all about, is the U.S. 516 00:26:04,567 --> 00:26:06,067 trying to move that process forward. 517 00:26:06,066 --> 00:26:07,366 MR. GIBBS: Yes. 518 00:26:07,367 --> 00:26:09,767 Q: Just to follow up on that, the use of the word "abyss" by 519 00:26:09,767 --> 00:26:15,167 the President today really connotes some sense of urgency. 520 00:26:15,166 --> 00:26:18,066 Is there some reason, some concrete reason, that he's 521 00:26:18,066 --> 00:26:21,796 taking his involvement to another level now by inviting 522 00:26:21,800 --> 00:26:23,600 all these other leaders in here? 523 00:26:23,600 --> 00:26:26,830 MR. GIBBS: No, I think in many ways this is a continuation of 524 00:26:26,834 --> 00:26:30,234 what the President began the very first day of his 525 00:26:30,233 --> 00:26:34,863 administration -- very -- since you and Mark share a seat, the 526 00:26:34,867 --> 00:26:38,737 very first full day of his administration -- so as not to 527 00:26:38,734 --> 00:26:41,334 get all the counting off. 528 00:26:41,333 --> 00:26:48,333 But, you know, the President, in -- I guess the overlap isn't 529 00:26:48,333 --> 00:26:54,733 complete, but the President on that first full day made calls 530 00:26:54,734 --> 00:26:57,864 to many of the same people that -- granted, one of the 531 00:26:57,867 --> 00:27:00,567 governments, obviously in Israel, has changed -- but many 532 00:27:00,567 --> 00:27:10,737 of the same actors and heads of state -- to reaffirm this 533 00:27:10,734 --> 00:27:18,634 administration's commitment to acting in a way that helps the 534 00:27:18,633 --> 00:27:20,863 two sides create that lasting peace. 535 00:27:20,867 --> 00:27:25,967 I think the involvement of what the President is doing in these 536 00:27:25,967 --> 00:27:31,467 meetings is simply an extension of what he started a few months ago. 537 00:27:31,467 --> 00:27:34,597 Q: But what does he mean; what's the "abyss"? 538 00:27:34,600 --> 00:27:36,700 MR. GIBBS: I have to admit, I did not catch that part. 539 00:27:36,700 --> 00:27:37,800 Do you have that sentence? 540 00:27:37,800 --> 00:27:39,600 I didn't -- 541 00:27:39,600 --> 00:27:42,430 Q: I've got it right in front of me here, but he warned them 542 00:27:42,433 --> 00:27:45,933 about approaching this abyss. 543 00:27:45,934 --> 00:27:48,664 MR. GIBBS: Let me check on that and I'll get back to -- go ahead. 544 00:27:48,667 --> 00:27:51,937 Q: On the Mideast, is it fair to say that the President, with 545 00:27:51,934 --> 00:27:56,904 this fresh batch of invitations today, the fact that he's got -- 546 00:27:56,900 --> 00:27:59,800 Mitchell has been in the Mideast at least three times since 547 00:27:59,800 --> 00:28:05,170 January -- that there's a new pushing or a prodding to get 548 00:28:05,166 --> 00:28:06,496 something -- is that fair -- 549 00:28:06,500 --> 00:28:07,100 MR. GIBBS: Absolutely. 550 00:28:07,100 --> 00:28:10,900 I mean, again -- but I don't -- it didn't start today, it didn't 551 00:28:10,900 --> 00:28:14,130 start yesterday, or didn't start with the invitation for -- 552 00:28:14,133 --> 00:28:15,333 Q: Today was another peg -- 553 00:28:15,333 --> 00:28:16,603 MR. GIBBS: Right, absolutely. 554 00:28:16,600 --> 00:28:19,470 I mean, King Abdullah was here, and obviously an important 555 00:28:19,467 --> 00:28:23,237 player in the region as it relates to moving this forward. 556 00:28:23,233 --> 00:28:26,963 But again, I think the President spoke throughout the campaign 557 00:28:26,967 --> 00:28:32,597 about the simple notion that it is in the interest of this 558 00:28:32,600 --> 00:28:36,830 country to seek that lasting peace, and that this country 559 00:28:36,834 --> 00:28:46,704 should be engaged in a constructive role to move that 560 00:28:46,700 --> 00:28:50,970 process forward and to be engaged in it early and often, 561 00:28:50,967 --> 00:28:52,237 as he's done. 562 00:28:52,233 --> 00:28:55,363 Q: Here's the "abyss" quote, by the way, Chuck gave it to me. 563 00:28:55,367 --> 00:28:58,367 "What we want to do is to step back from the abyss, to say, as 564 00:28:58,367 --> 00:29:03,067 hard as it is, as difficult as it may be, the prospect of peace still exists." 565 00:29:03,066 --> 00:29:09,296 MR. GIBBS: Well, I think in -- I think what the President meant 566 00:29:09,300 --> 00:29:15,500 there was, obviously we've seen over the course of the last few 567 00:29:15,500 --> 00:29:27,800 months, you've seen news that might lead you to believe that 568 00:29:27,800 --> 00:29:30,700 peace in the region wasn't possible. 569 00:29:30,700 --> 00:29:34,800 I think the President has always believed that it is and that it 570 00:29:34,800 --> 00:29:39,970 can be primarily because the United States can play a role, 571 00:29:39,967 --> 00:29:48,597 an active role, an engaged role, in helping to move that peace forward. 572 00:29:48,600 --> 00:29:53,070 Q: Robert, I'd like to follow up on another question, if I may. 573 00:29:53,066 --> 00:29:56,196 The President visited Caterpillar in February -- part 574 00:29:56,200 --> 00:30:00,200 of the stimulus rally just a few days before passing. 575 00:30:00,200 --> 00:30:04,300 Caterpillar was out today with its earnings, and it took the 576 00:30:04,300 --> 00:30:09,730 occasion to call the stimulus package was -- calling it disappointing. 577 00:30:09,734 --> 00:30:12,904 It said it missed an opportunity to correct past 578 00:30:12,900 --> 00:30:19,100 under-investment, and said the package was less effective than China's. 579 00:30:19,100 --> 00:30:22,170 Jim Owens, the CEO's good friend, he's on the recovery 580 00:30:22,166 --> 00:30:23,966 board, if I recall. 581 00:30:23,967 --> 00:30:25,697 I was just wondering if you had any comment. 582 00:30:25,700 --> 00:30:33,300 MR. GIBBS: Well, I -- yes, I mean, look, I think -- I mean, I 583 00:30:33,300 --> 00:30:39,230 think part of what -- part of -- well, let's take a couple of 584 00:30:39,233 --> 00:30:40,733 different ways of looking at this. 585 00:30:40,734 --> 00:30:46,064 One, understand that the investment made through the 586 00:30:46,066 --> 00:30:50,296 recovery and reinvestment plan represented the single greatest 587 00:30:50,300 --> 00:30:54,030 infrastructure investment in this country since Dwight David 588 00:30:54,033 --> 00:30:59,203 Eisenhower conceptualized and built the interstate highway system. 589 00:30:59,200 --> 00:31:03,000 The President is in strong agreement with many that believe 590 00:31:03,000 --> 00:31:09,130 for quite some time our infrastructure needs have been neglected. 591 00:31:09,133 --> 00:31:15,233 That's exactly why the President believed we could get people in 592 00:31:15,233 --> 00:31:19,103 the short term back to work and in the long term to build the 593 00:31:19,100 --> 00:31:23,230 economic foundation that we've talked about many times -- 594 00:31:23,233 --> 00:31:30,663 infrastructure being part of that -- that can create jobs for the future. 595 00:31:30,667 --> 00:31:35,167 There's always been a tension in the stimulus bill about -- and 596 00:31:35,166 --> 00:31:39,496 you guys ask me many times what percentage of spending can be 597 00:31:39,500 --> 00:31:44,230 accomplished in a two-year or year-and-a-half time frame, 598 00:31:44,233 --> 00:31:51,133 what's the spend-out rate, all these intricate CBO numbers. 599 00:31:51,133 --> 00:31:54,333 I think in some ways there's a tension between some 600 00:31:54,333 --> 00:31:58,263 infrastructure projects which are being funded through the 601 00:31:58,266 --> 00:32:05,836 reinvestment plan -- 2,000 approved to date -- that are in 602 00:32:05,834 --> 00:32:09,704 accordance with the definition of recovery and stimulus, and 603 00:32:09,700 --> 00:32:13,200 then there's long-term projects. 604 00:32:13,200 --> 00:32:17,830 The President has been actively involved and has met with 605 00:32:17,834 --> 00:32:22,604 Governor Schwarzenegger and Mayor Bloomberg about the 606 00:32:22,600 --> 00:32:26,200 important decisions that are going to be upcoming about the 607 00:32:26,200 --> 00:32:29,800 long-term transportation policy of our country as it's 608 00:32:29,800 --> 00:32:36,500 enumerated every four or five years in a larger transportation funding bill. 609 00:32:36,500 --> 00:32:40,030 I think in many ways, without having read the story or the 610 00:32:40,033 --> 00:32:45,103 report, I think in many ways there's a tension between what's 611 00:32:45,100 --> 00:32:47,900 a infrastructure project, what's a stimulus project, how they 612 00:32:47,900 --> 00:32:51,630 overlap, and why. 613 00:32:51,633 --> 00:32:57,363 All that's to say the President believes that we do have urgent 614 00:32:57,367 --> 00:32:59,837 infrastructure needs that need to be met. 615 00:32:59,834 --> 00:33:04,164 He'll be addressing that as he and the Congress undertake the 616 00:33:04,166 --> 00:33:08,636 reauthorization of the -- what's commonly known as the 617 00:33:08,633 --> 00:33:12,833 transportation bill that's up for reauthorization -- but at 618 00:33:12,834 --> 00:33:16,764 the same time I think takes great pride in the notion that 619 00:33:16,767 --> 00:33:21,037 the greatest investment that's been made since the '50s was 620 00:33:21,033 --> 00:33:23,103 made under his administration. 621 00:33:23,100 --> 00:33:26,670 Q: Do you think he was surprised by the company's comments? 622 00:33:26,667 --> 00:33:28,767 MR. GIBBS: I doubt he's aware of them. 623 00:33:28,767 --> 00:33:29,897 Yep. 624 00:33:29,900 --> 00:33:31,830 Q: I'd like to go back to the CIA quickly for a moment. 625 00:33:31,834 --> 00:33:33,004 MR. GIBBS: Sure. 626 00:33:33,000 --> 00:33:36,930 Q: The CIA has said in testimony and again today that it believes 627 00:33:36,934 --> 00:33:39,934 the use of these enhanced interrogation techniques 628 00:33:39,934 --> 00:33:42,664 obtained valuable information that in one specific instance at 629 00:33:42,667 --> 00:33:45,537 least, an alleged plot that would have occurred in Los 630 00:33:45,533 --> 00:33:49,233 Angeles, information was derived that prevented an attack. 631 00:33:49,233 --> 00:33:50,803 Does the President believe that, yes or no? 632 00:33:50,800 --> 00:33:53,100 And secondarily, would the President have an opinion as to 633 00:33:53,100 --> 00:33:56,200 whether or not that would be a mitigating factor in the Justice 634 00:33:56,200 --> 00:33:59,200 Department evaluation of whether to proceed with an investigation 635 00:33:59,200 --> 00:34:00,900 or prosecution? 636 00:34:00,900 --> 00:34:02,830 MR. GIBBS: I'd have to take a look at exactly what you're 637 00:34:02,834 --> 00:34:06,134 referring to and then -- and I would leave any determination 638 00:34:06,133 --> 00:34:08,563 legally up to the Justice Department. 639 00:34:08,567 --> 00:34:09,537 I think that's where -- 640 00:34:09,533 --> 00:34:10,703 Q: Okay, going back to Laura's question. 641 00:34:10,700 --> 00:34:14,630 If there's a continuum from those who were in the field 642 00:34:14,633 --> 00:34:16,863 carrying out these enhanced interrogation techniques to 643 00:34:16,867 --> 00:34:20,997 those who authorized them at the highest levels, is what you're 644 00:34:21,000 --> 00:34:24,200 saying at the podium today: The Justice Department will not, 645 00:34:24,200 --> 00:34:27,230 under any circumstance, investigate or prosecute those 646 00:34:27,233 --> 00:34:31,203 field officers who did it, but the field above them is open, 647 00:34:31,200 --> 00:34:32,170 all the way to the top? 648 00:34:32,166 --> 00:34:35,996 MR. GIBBS: Well, let me -- instead of yes or no, let me be -- 649 00:34:36,000 --> 00:34:39,170 Q: I tried to formulate the question as clearly as I could. 650 00:34:39,166 --> 00:34:39,996 MR. GIBBS: Sure. 651 00:34:40,000 --> 00:34:42,800 Let me -- let me do it in my own words. 652 00:34:42,800 --> 00:34:46,730 The President and the Attorney General believe and both stated 653 00:34:46,734 --> 00:34:53,934 last week that those that undertook actions based on their 654 00:34:53,934 --> 00:34:57,904 legal understanding and their good faith understanding of what 655 00:34:57,900 --> 00:35:02,070 was legally permissible, as the President said today, shouldn't be prosecuted. 656 00:35:02,066 --> 00:35:04,266 At the same time, the President believes that nobody in the 657 00:35:04,266 --> 00:35:07,096 country is above the rule of law. 658 00:35:07,100 --> 00:35:13,230 I just don't want to prejudge in your continuum -- I'm just -- 659 00:35:13,233 --> 00:35:14,333 I'm not a part of the -- 660 00:35:14,333 --> 00:35:18,733 Q: Is it possible for the good faith standard to be applied to 661 00:35:18,734 --> 00:35:22,604 those who formulated the policy -- that is, that they believe 662 00:35:22,600 --> 00:35:28,630 that the circumstances and the asymmetrical nature of the war 663 00:35:28,633 --> 00:35:30,533 which not only the Pentagon but the Justice Department, this 664 00:35:30,533 --> 00:35:33,663 White House have always acknowledged there are no flags, 665 00:35:33,667 --> 00:35:36,237 there are no countries, it's a different kind of situation, 666 00:35:36,233 --> 00:35:40,463 that that good faith application of what they believed was legal 667 00:35:40,467 --> 00:35:43,497 could apply not just to those who carried it out but who formulated it? 668 00:35:43,500 --> 00:35:46,600 MR. GIBBS: Well, I think that's a legal determination that, 669 00:35:46,600 --> 00:35:48,900 again, I'm going to leave to the lawyers. 670 00:35:48,900 --> 00:35:49,870 Q: One last question. 671 00:35:49,867 --> 00:35:53,667 On the question of looking back, if the President is asked about 672 00:35:53,667 --> 00:35:57,597 a hearing or a group to investigate and says, "I am open 673 00:35:57,600 --> 00:36:01,370 to it," isn't that the same -- or how is that different from 674 00:36:01,367 --> 00:36:02,537 him proposing it? 675 00:36:02,533 --> 00:36:04,733 Isn't that the same way -- he's sending a signal to Congress 676 00:36:04,734 --> 00:36:06,334 that it's okay to look back. 677 00:36:06,333 --> 00:36:07,903 If he didn't want to look back, couldn't he just say, "I'd 678 00:36:07,900 --> 00:36:09,700 prefer that Congress not do this. 679 00:36:09,700 --> 00:36:12,630 I prefer that we not have a 9/11-type commission hearing and 680 00:36:12,633 --> 00:36:15,703 I want us to focus all of our attention forward." 681 00:36:15,700 --> 00:36:18,900 MR. GIBBS: You've enhanced the powers of this President in this 682 00:36:18,900 --> 00:36:20,500 town, and I -- 683 00:36:20,500 --> 00:36:22,270 Q: Is he sending a signal, though, that he's open to it, 684 00:36:22,266 --> 00:36:25,396 and by that very nature, greenlighting looking backward? 685 00:36:25,400 --> 00:36:28,600 MR. GIBBS: No, I think the President was asked if it were 686 00:36:28,600 --> 00:36:35,400 set up, and he said it's something that he would consider. 687 00:36:35,400 --> 00:36:41,200 I don't -- he's not proposing it. 688 00:36:41,200 --> 00:36:47,130 I mean, I think you saw the statement that we put out last week. 689 00:36:47,133 --> 00:36:48,903 I think it was pretty fulsome. 690 00:36:48,900 --> 00:36:50,100 Mike. 691 00:36:50,100 --> 00:36:51,600 Q: What is the President going to talk about when he goes to 692 00:36:51,600 --> 00:36:54,370 the Holocaust Museum on Thursday? 693 00:36:54,367 --> 00:36:56,367 MR. GIBBS: I will get you some information. 694 00:36:56,367 --> 00:36:58,537 I don't have that ready in front of me. 695 00:36:58,533 --> 00:37:01,633 I was working on other things, my apologies, but I'll get you 696 00:37:01,633 --> 00:37:03,703 something more specific on that. 697 00:37:03,700 --> 00:37:04,530 Yes, sir. 698 00:37:04,533 --> 00:37:06,133 Q: At the risk of belaboring this, I want to -- 699 00:37:06,133 --> 00:37:07,203 MR. GIBBS: Oh, come on. 700 00:37:07,200 --> 00:37:08,570 (Laughter.) 701 00:37:08,567 --> 00:37:09,867 Nice try. 702 00:37:09,867 --> 00:37:11,097 (Laughter.) 703 00:37:11,100 --> 00:37:12,830 Q: Someone was asked yesterday in the building about Rahm's comments. 704 00:37:12,834 --> 00:37:14,304 We were told that Rahm's comments -- when he said, those 705 00:37:14,300 --> 00:37:17,630 who devise a policy was distinct from the lawyers: those who 706 00:37:17,633 --> 00:37:20,763 devise a policy -- he met with those who took the lawyers' 707 00:37:20,767 --> 00:37:23,767 advice and said, our policy is -- Major was talking about it -- 708 00:37:23,767 --> 00:37:26,097 our policy is to do thus and such; and then there are those 709 00:37:26,100 --> 00:37:27,630 who actually executed it. 710 00:37:27,633 --> 00:37:30,733 And that what Rahm was talking about was this middle category, 711 00:37:30,734 --> 00:37:33,634 in effect, between the lawyers who said this is possible, this 712 00:37:33,633 --> 00:37:38,263 is not possible, and those who actually conducted the interrogations. 713 00:37:38,266 --> 00:37:42,596 So there are three categories, right: people who say -- the 714 00:37:42,600 --> 00:37:46,530 lawyers who say, this is what's legal; the policymakers who say, 715 00:37:46,533 --> 00:37:49,233 okay, if that's legal then we authorize this; and people who 716 00:37:49,233 --> 00:37:50,863 then conduct the interrogations. 717 00:37:50,867 --> 00:37:51,737 Right? 718 00:37:51,734 --> 00:37:54,134 We were told yesterday that what Rahm was referring to was this 719 00:37:54,133 --> 00:37:57,133 policymaker category, people who took the advice of the lawyers 720 00:37:57,133 --> 00:38:00,463 and said, okay, our policy is to do thus and such. 721 00:38:00,467 --> 00:38:03,297 Is that -- when the President says -- I guess the question 722 00:38:03,300 --> 00:38:05,400 then -- again, it's parsing, I know -- but when the President 723 00:38:05,400 --> 00:38:09,430 says, those who formulated those legal decisions, those who -- is 724 00:38:09,433 --> 00:38:13,433 that lawyers or policymakers, or potentially both? 725 00:38:13,433 --> 00:38:17,063 MR. GIBBS: You know, I obviously -- without parsing that, I don't 726 00:38:17,066 --> 00:38:17,996 know the answer to that. 727 00:38:18,000 --> 00:38:21,130 Q: But he said those who followed four squares within the 728 00:38:21,133 --> 00:38:23,833 guidelines that the lawyers came up with shouldn't be prosecuted. 729 00:38:23,834 --> 00:38:28,164 Could policymakers have followed foursquare within the guidelines 730 00:38:28,166 --> 00:38:31,796 that the lawyers gave them and therefore not be prosecuted? 731 00:38:31,800 --> 00:38:37,470 MR. GIBBS: Again, I think -- I think the parsing of some of 732 00:38:37,467 --> 00:38:41,297 this is better done through a filter of the rule of law, and 733 00:38:41,300 --> 00:38:44,330 done at the Justice Department, and not done here at the White House. 734 00:38:44,333 --> 00:38:45,563 Q: But it's just been done by the President. 735 00:38:45,567 --> 00:38:47,867 Now we're trying to figure out what he meant. 736 00:38:47,867 --> 00:38:51,397 MR. GIBBS: Well, and I will endeavor to get some further 737 00:38:51,400 --> 00:38:52,470 clarity on that. 738 00:38:52,467 --> 00:38:56,297 But again, I think what he speaks to more generally is that 739 00:38:56,300 --> 00:39:01,770 the determination of rule of law is not going to be made in this building. 740 00:39:01,767 --> 00:39:04,397 It shouldn't be; it should be made at the Department of Justice. 741 00:39:04,400 --> 00:39:06,730 Q: Robert, I think that's an important point, because if you 742 00:39:06,734 --> 00:39:09,464 read what the President says literally, he's not ruling out 743 00:39:09,467 --> 00:39:15,497 prosecutions up to and including his predecessor. 744 00:39:15,500 --> 00:39:17,200 MR. GIBBS: I know there's a desire to whip right through 745 00:39:17,200 --> 00:39:26,600 this, but again, I think you're well ahead of any possible 746 00:39:26,600 --> 00:39:30,200 determination or even any possible investigation. 747 00:39:30,200 --> 00:39:34,030 That's, again, a determination that -- the determination as to 748 00:39:34,033 --> 00:39:38,163 the rule of law is, again, it's going to be made at the 749 00:39:38,166 --> 00:39:39,466 Department of Justice. 750 00:39:39,467 --> 00:39:41,167 Q: But you've asked us to look at what the President said. 751 00:39:41,166 --> 00:39:42,736 That's all we're trying to do. 752 00:39:42,734 --> 00:39:45,804 MR. GIBBS: I understand, and I'm looking at it right here. 753 00:39:45,800 --> 00:39:46,870 Q: Do you understand it? 754 00:39:46,867 --> 00:39:49,237 (Laughter.) 755 00:39:49,233 --> 00:39:52,433 MR. GIBBS: I have endeavored to try to find greater clarity in 756 00:39:52,433 --> 00:39:53,263 all of what he said. 757 00:39:53,266 --> 00:39:56,036 Q: Why is it fair to say what was just said, that it leaves -- 758 00:39:56,033 --> 00:39:58,333 MR. GIBBS: I didn't -- I'm just -- 759 00:39:58,333 --> 00:40:00,863 Q: But he has made a determination, in terms of the 760 00:40:00,867 --> 00:40:02,567 people who carried out the policy. 761 00:40:02,567 --> 00:40:04,037 He didn't leave that to the Justice Department. 762 00:40:04,033 --> 00:40:06,763 He said the people who actually did the interrogations are not 763 00:40:06,767 --> 00:40:07,997 to be prosecuted. 764 00:40:08,000 --> 00:40:09,830 Q: So that's -- right -- these are determinations he's already 765 00:40:09,834 --> 00:40:12,504 made -- so what's been made here in this building; isn't that fair? 766 00:40:12,500 --> 00:40:15,100 MR. GIBBS: Based on the fact -- I think it's a fairly sound 767 00:40:15,100 --> 00:40:22,930 legal precedent that the determination based on legal 768 00:40:22,934 --> 00:40:27,034 representation, following that in good faith and enacting those 769 00:40:27,033 --> 00:40:30,733 policies shouldn't fall under prosecution. 770 00:40:30,734 --> 00:40:33,664 Yes, the President has made, and the Attorney General have made 771 00:40:33,667 --> 00:40:39,737 that determination, absolutely. 772 00:40:39,734 --> 00:40:42,504 Q: Middle East, a follow-up on what was said. 773 00:40:42,500 --> 00:40:46,430 The process, the Middle East peace process has been moved 774 00:40:46,433 --> 00:40:49,663 forward by an international effort, with the participation 775 00:40:49,667 --> 00:40:51,137 of the Quartet. 776 00:40:51,133 --> 00:40:54,333 So my question is, are you making a new proposal here -- by 777 00:40:54,333 --> 00:40:57,003 inviting these people to make a new proposal, are you pushing 778 00:40:57,000 --> 00:41:02,170 the broad process, the Quartet process -- how is it coordinated? 779 00:41:02,166 --> 00:41:06,566 MR. GIBBS: Largely through the President's envoy, in George 780 00:41:06,567 --> 00:41:10,037 Mitchell, has been working in the region. 781 00:41:10,033 --> 00:41:13,763 Before I get into, and before we get into any sort of specific 782 00:41:13,767 --> 00:41:20,397 policies or ways forward -- I'm not going to do that today here. 783 00:41:20,400 --> 00:41:26,070 The President has stated quite clearly that he is going to be 784 00:41:26,066 --> 00:41:36,266 very active in using his power and his ability to seek a lasting peace. 785 00:41:36,266 --> 00:41:39,996 Q: But when you talk to these leaders, regional leaders, do 786 00:41:40,000 --> 00:41:44,870 you also talk to your partners in the Quartet about what you're 787 00:41:44,867 --> 00:41:46,367 discussing, what you are proposing -- 788 00:41:46,367 --> 00:41:50,437 MR. GIBBS: Yes, I think the President would, and the 789 00:41:50,433 --> 00:41:55,633 administration would believe that -- are we interrupting your call, David? 790 00:41:55,633 --> 00:41:57,203 Sorry. 791 00:41:57,200 --> 00:42:01,700 All right, all right, I hope I didn't interrupt. 792 00:42:01,700 --> 00:42:06,600 Yes, the President is actively engaged, because the President 793 00:42:06,600 --> 00:42:12,970 understands that this is -- one country is not going to do this alone. 794 00:42:12,967 --> 00:42:17,237 The President's foreign policy is, as he's stated and as I've 795 00:42:17,233 --> 00:42:22,003 said, to engage all the world. 796 00:42:22,000 --> 00:42:25,470 Q: And lastly, the Russians and the Palestinians have been 797 00:42:25,467 --> 00:42:30,597 pushing for a follow-up conference after Annapolis to be 798 00:42:30,600 --> 00:42:32,100 held in Moscow, basically. 799 00:42:32,100 --> 00:42:34,570 Are you aware of this proposal? 800 00:42:34,567 --> 00:42:36,167 MR. GIBBS: I don't have any guidance. 801 00:42:36,166 --> 00:42:41,636 I'm sure there are folks that are better apprised of that than I am. 802 00:42:41,633 --> 00:42:47,603 Q: What exactly does "actively engaged" mean in terms of how 803 00:42:47,600 --> 00:42:50,830 the President is planning to pursue this sort of engagement 804 00:42:50,834 --> 00:42:52,034 in the Middle East? 805 00:42:52,033 --> 00:42:56,363 Some people criticized President Clinton for being too personally invested. 806 00:42:56,367 --> 00:42:59,637 Others leveled the opposite criticism at President Bush. 807 00:42:59,633 --> 00:43:03,933 Is there sort of a model that he's trying -- is he going to be 808 00:43:03,934 --> 00:43:06,804 a facilitator, a mediator, a negotiator? 809 00:43:06,800 --> 00:43:13,100 MR. GIBBS: Well, obviously there are many issues that both 810 00:43:13,100 --> 00:43:20,800 parties are going to have to resolve on their own. 811 00:43:20,800 --> 00:43:23,830 And I think that's important for everyone to understand. 812 00:43:23,834 --> 00:43:31,204 The President hopes, without -- I don't want to pick a specific 813 00:43:31,200 --> 00:43:37,330 model, but I think the President believes that the value of this 814 00:43:37,333 --> 00:43:44,203 country's input and the value of helping to lead the world in 815 00:43:44,200 --> 00:43:52,330 working toward that progress can't be done -- can't be done 816 00:43:52,333 --> 00:43:53,833 on a part-time basis. 817 00:43:53,834 --> 00:44:00,164 It can't be done in a way that focuses on that at some point 818 00:44:00,166 --> 00:44:04,296 and then leaves the playing field empty in the future. 819 00:44:04,300 --> 00:44:09,970 And I think that's why the President was involved in this, 820 00:44:09,967 --> 00:44:13,397 as I said, the very first full day of his administration and 821 00:44:13,400 --> 00:44:14,670 why he continues to be. 822 00:44:14,667 --> 00:44:15,667 Thank you.