Template talk:PD-old-50

Not PD in some contries

Images tagged with this license are only PD in countries that

1. follow the rule of shorter term or
2. have 50 years pma

Germany and Switzerland don't follow the rule of shorter term [1] so images with this tag are probably still protected in these contries. --Matt314 16:39, 26 November 2006 (UTC)

The German statement is not entirely correct. According to EU rules, all EU countries (including Germany) apply the rule of the shorter term to all non-EU countries, unless there is an earlier conflicting treaty. A German court discovered that there is a conflicting treaty for US copyrights, meaning that the rule of the shorter term isn't applied on US works in Germany. However, the rule of the shorter term is still applied to most, if not all, other non-EU countries. Since the United States doesn't use 50 years p.m.a. in the first place, I'm removing Germany from the list of examples. The page you quoted only deals with the rule of the shorter term for US works. --Stefan4 (talk) 15:59, 29 January 2012 (UTC)

Usage

I believe this tag is intended for US works only, isn't it? Then I believe it should be moved to Template:PD-US-old-50 or something. People are using it for images that were first published outside the US, thus not taking into account the laws of the country of origin. --Botev 11:21, 12 May 2008 (UTC)

Not exactly. It should be used when the work is PD in the U.S. and country of origin, and the author died more than 50 years ago. Superm401 - Talk 00:08, 18 May 2008 (UTC)

Well, technically you are right, but note that for non-US works with copyright protection less than 70 years pma we have the country-specific tags. And this tag only makes people think that they can upload any image if it's more than 50 years after the author's death. Contrary to PD-old-70 and others - in the majority of cases they can't. --Botev 06:05, 18 May 2008 (UTC)

Do all the countries with 50 pma have specific tags? That was not my understanding. I do agree the template may be misleading, especially to new users. Superm401 - Talk 00:57, 20 May 2008 (UTC)

I don't think we have created tags for all the countries with 50 pma, but I believe this is only due to the fact that not all of them have been needed so far. And I think they should be created in case we need them, because there are many images being uploaded from countries with more restrictive laws than 50 pma. I mean - if it's been more than 70 years since the author's death, then in the vast majority of cases the image is in the PD (only a handful of countries have more restrictive laws), which you can't say if it's been only 50 years pma. That's why - if it were up to me, I would delete the PD-old-50 tag and create country-specific tags when needed. --Botev 03:00, 20 May 2008 (UTC)

I understand this argument, and we definitely have to prevent misuse of the tag. I've put a stronger note about usage, which should be a start. However, w:List of countries' copyright length indicates there are actually a significant number (>50 by my quick count) of countries with pma 50, probably enough that this tag is warranted. Superm401 - Talk 21:19, 20 May 2008 (UTC)

For a start, this is fine. However, what I actually meant is that we have a substantially higher percentage of images from countries with more restrictive laws than 50 pma. We don't have many images first published in Angola, Armenia, Azerbajian, Bangladesh or Guyana, do we? So - regardless of the large number of countries with 50pma, the actual number of affected images is negligible. --Botev 00:21, 21 May 2008 (UTC)

I have slightly modified the wording. The idea is now that this tag gives us the information that:

a) it's been more than 50 years since the author death and therefore the image is PD in the countries with 50pma or less

b) for some reason it's also PD in the United States

c) for some reason it's PD in its home country

If there is country-specific tag, it might be attached as well - it will give us the reason why the copyright expired in the source country (not necessarily because it's more than 50 years pma - there can be other reasons).

Ideally, in case of foreign works, it might also be accompanied by the third tag {{PD-URAA}}, stating the reason why this image is PD in the USA. For US works it might be accompanied by {{PD-US-not renewed}}, {{PD-US-no notice}} or similar, stating the exact reason why it's PD in the United States.

Well, apart from images from countries not having their own tags (and they can always be created), the only practical use I see for this template is to indicate that the image is PD in countries that have the copyright term of 50pma or less and do not apply the rule of the shorter term (if they do - the country-specific tag would be enough). Somehow, I still think we are trying to overkill it. :) --Botev 01:08, 21 May 2008 (UTC)

The some reason of "c" should in fact be pma 50. That is, the image is PD in its source country because the author died 50 years ago. I'll try to make this clearer. Superm401 - Talk 12:57, 22 May 2008 (UTC)

Also, the pre-1923 publication can be anywhere. Regardless, it's PD in the U.S. (though this isn't enough for Commons). Superm401 - Talk 12:58, 22 May 2008 (UTC)

It is not enough for Commons, because it might not be PD in the country of origin. That's why you cannot claim that This work is in the public domain in the United States and the source country. In most cases, this means that it was published prior to January 1, 1923 - this is true only if the source country is the US. But I think now I wrote it better. --Botev 03:22, 23 May 2008 (UTC)

On second thought, c can be other than pma 50, but a more specific tag should also be provided in such cases. Superm401 - Talk 13:02, 22 May 2008 (UTC)

This tag is also useful because it can be used with {{PD-old-auto}} which automatically applies appropriate licence tags for images and updates them every year. --Stefan4 (talk) 16:01, 29 January 2012 (UTC)