Template talk:Institution/2011

Adding a new field 'Description'

I would like to suggest that a new field 'Description' similar to the {{Creator}} template should be added to the template. This can provide a little helpful piece of information about the institution. For example, that Santa Maria dei Candeli is a 14th century former church or that Rijksmuseum Amsterdam is a Dutch national museum dedicated to arts, crafts, and history. This is particularly useful when the template is used secondarilly as in the location field of a piece of art for example.  ? --Mattis (talk) 15:51, 29 December 2010 (UTC)

I would support this if we can have something similar to {{NationAndOccupation}}, otherwise, I am afraid it will become a bit messy.--Zolo (talk) 17:35, 29 December 2010 (UTC)

From looking at how this field has been used in the {{Creator}} template, the majority of usage seems to be fine. I think generally users of this field are aware that it not meant to be too lengthy but to give some ideas about who the person was. --Mattis (talk) 21:21, 29 December 2010 (UTC)

Yes it seems fine. But to me, we should strive for uniformity and multilinguality, and this can only be done if we have really simple texts inside the template. I would even argue for replacing "description" by "gender", "nation" and "occupation", which are the infos that are supposed to be provided by default, eg in template:creator/preload. (Creator:Elisabeth of Hungary is probably already a bit too detailed and cannot be automatically translate. Of course I agree that more info are sometimes useful, but we probably should create a new, more comprehensive template to achieve that.) For institution, perhaps we could imagine parameters like type (museum, church etc.) or status (private/public; profit/nonprofit...), but I am not sure. --Zolo (talk) 22:23, 29 December 2010 (UTC)

May be we could introduce "Type" similar to type in en:Template:Infobox museum. If we create a new template {{Institution type}} which would take parameters like: Art museum, Library, Church, etc. and translate them, than we could use this template within Institution template for translation, or We could use some icons similar to w:Template:Museum. --Jarekt (talk) 04:06, 30 December 2010 (UTC)

As this template is meant to be transcluded on hundreds of images for each Institution, a link to the relevant Wikipedia could be sufficient. --  Docu  at 04:15, 30 December 2010 (UTC)

Currently the template is mostly used for large institutions but I think it is likely that it will be more and more used for smaller ones that do not have any article on Wikipedia (institution:Archives municipales de Toulouse only has an article in French). I would suggest adding a "type" parameter that would use an internationalisation template similar to {{Occupation}} but I am bothered by the fact that in many cases it will look quite silly (Bostom museum of Fine Arts (wtih "description: museum of Fine Arts" in the collapsible part). I think we could also add a "description" parameter that would work that same way as in {{Creator}}--Zolo (talk) 08:47, 7 February 2011 (UTC)

collaspsing

I have just discovered en:Help:Collapsing#'innercollapse' and 'outercollapse'. It might solve the problem with the lists, but apparently it does not work on Commons (user:Zolo/test).--Zolo (talk) 07:37, 2 February 2011 (UTC)

I agree that capability looks nice. I assume en wiki added some code to their en:MediaWiki:Common.js which is not in our MediaWiki:Common.js. We can try to find someone who knows how to synch them. --Jarekt (talk) 14:07, 7 February 2011 (UTC)

Actually it is in en:MediaWiki:Common.js (that was written on Meta). There is clearly "innercollapse" "outercollaspe" options but I don't speak Javascript.--Zolo (talk) 14:49, 10 February 2011 (UTC)

I asked for change in MediaWiki talk:Common.js --Jarekt (talk) 15:19, 10 February 2011 (UTC)

Specifying a different category

Is it possible to add a parameter allowing a different category to be specified? I created

National Maritime Museum
	Native name	National Maritime Museum
	Parent institution	Royal Museums Greenwich
	Location	Greenwich, London, England
	Coordinates	51° 28′ 52″ N, 0° 00′ 20″ W
	Established	1937
	Website	Royal Museums Greenwich
	Authority file	: Q1199924 VIAF: 153531318 ISNI: 000000040426429X LCCN: n80126325 GND: 1049610-5 SUDOC: 028465725 WorldCat

institution QS:P195,Q1199924

(following "en:National Maritime Museum"), but have just realized that the corresponding category here is "Category:National Maritime Museum, London", which means that the template links to the non-existent "Category:National Maritime Museum". — Cheers, JackLee ^–talk– 19:12, 18 April 2011 (UTC)

 Done You can just change home category in the Institution:National Maritime Museum to fix it. --Jarekt (talk) 22:15, 18 April 2011 (UTC)

Ohhh. Stupid me. Thanks. — Cheers, JackLee ^–talk– 04:32, 19 April 2011 (UTC)

Category:Institution template stubs

As part of Commons:Batch uploading/Web Gallery of Art I created Category:Institution template stubs and outlined it's purpose in Template:Institution/stub-documentation. As the batch upload is not done yet: still have over 1000 creator templates to create and check metadata of ~5k files already uploaded by others. Please do not delete stub institution templates (even with typos) until batch upload is completed. I would like to request for people working with artworks to grab a few stub templates and matching (red link) categories and either redirect them to existing Institution templates / categories or create new ones. --Jarekt (talk) 13:43, 14 June 2011 (UTC)

Maybe you should tell us when the upload is complete. It would avoid creatign redirects that will have to be deleted afterwards.--Zolo (talk) 02:59, 13 July 2011 (UTC)

I am all done uploading files, but I am still planning on fixing ~6k files already uploaded, many of which do not use {{Artwork}} or even{{Information}}. --Jarekt (talk) 04:07, 13 July 2011 (UTC)

Lets not wait for the upload to finalize - I can correct Institution template names and institution category names before the upload, I just have to know the link from the old name to the new one. That link I can get from redirect from already existing Institution template (with incorrect or alternative name) to the new one. Before any new upload I will compile a list of Institution namespace redirects and change my institution strings accordingly. I will change Template:Institution/stub-documentation to that effect. --Jarekt (talk) 16:21, 14 July 2011 (UTC)

I corrected the home cat on many institutions: that might give you a path to the correct categories and related institute templates. (if the link is red, then nothing has been done yet). Note that I redirected some of the red categories to a subcat such as "paintings in "Institute"". --Foroa (talk) 16:39, 14 July 2011 (UTC)

OK, Prior to next upload I will scan all Institutions for current Homecats and use those. --Jarekt (talk) 16:53, 14 July 2011 (UTC)

Commons:Batch uploading/Web Gallery of Art is completed. No more files will be used that add current Category:Institution template stubs or their categories. --Jarekt (talk) 12:53, 8 August 2011 (UTC)

In case anybody could use it, I created User:Jarekt/Institution Stubs page which allows sorting Institution template stubs by name, city and number of images using them. As with any static page - it is already out of date. Feel free to edit it if needed. By the way I deleted about 80 unused Institution template stubs. --Jarekt (talk) 18:29, 29 August 2011 (UTC)

template scope

Would it be okay to use {{Institution}} for thus US War department here ?--Zolo (talk) 06:46, 22 June 2011 (UTC)

I would vote no. Just like adding creator templates to describe people depicted in the images, using Institution template to describe institution that produced the image would be confusing. For example at the moment it is safe to add all images with some institution template to category "Artworks at Institution". That would not be true if we started using it for other purposes. --Jarekt (talk) 12:29, 22 June 2011 (UTC)

"part of" parameter

If we create template for branches of the National Archives and Records Administration and of other institutions, should there be a "part of" parameter (or whatever the name should be)--Zolo (talk) 02:07, 15 July 2011 (UTC)

In most cases I assume each institution will have its own article on the wikipedia (and category here), like presidential libraries which are part of National Archives and Records Administration (NARA). In such case, I do not think we need to list parent organization (the "part of"). Are there any existing institution templates, or institution stub templates that need it? --Jarekt (talk) 12:31, 15 July 2011 (UTC)

I also think each institution will have its own category here (though not all have articles on en.wiki or even on any wikipedia). But to me it would be clearer to have a "part of" parameter at template like Institution:National Archives at College Park. The way it is, it looks as if the NARA headquarters were in College Park (It is written the same way as "Louvre, Paris" on painting captions). There are other cases where I think it could be interesting to have a 'part of' parameter. For example Institution:Bibliothèque de l'Arsenal is actually a branch of institution:Bibliothèque Nationale de France. It is clearly stated in Wikipedia but we should probably not expect every one to go there to read the article. In this case it makes some difference that the Bibliothèque de l'Arsenal is part of the BNF: eg it is much easier to move a document from one institution to the other than to a private library.--Zolo (talk) 01:29, 18 July 2011 (UTC)

Ok, I am fine with adding it, but I am not sure what to call it. "Part of" would not work in Polish, Russian and probably many other languages since the name in that box would have to be conjugated. May be "Parent institution"?--Jarekt (talk) 03:03, 18 July 2011 (UTC)

I am not sure either. "Parent" is probably better than any other term that I can think of.--Zolo (talk) 06:31, 18 July 2011 (UTC)

 Done I added "parent" parameter for parent institutions. Please translate. --Jarekt (talk) 14:06, 26 July 2011 (UTC)

Thanks. Did you forget institution={{{institution}}} in the /en subpage or just wait for the translations ?--Zolo (talk) 01:26, 27 July 2011 (UTC)

No I forgot about it. Now I added it to all subtemplates --Jarekt (talk) 03:37, 27 July 2011 (UTC)

How to add Institution templates to {{Information}}

Hi, I just noticed that the way {{Information}} template is written one can easily add fields to it, for example one can add "current location" field with Institution template for images that fall out of scope of {{Artwork}} like zoo animals. For example the code:

{{Information
|Description={{en|Birds of [[w:Smithsonian National Zoological Park|National Zoo]] in [[w:Washington, D.C.|Washington, D.C.]] -
''Mandarin Duck'' ([[Aix galericulata]])}}
{{Information field|name={{int:wm-license-artwork-current-location}}|value={{Institution:Smithsonian National Zoological Park}} }}
|Source={{own}}
|Date=2010-09-19 17:05:31
|Author=John Doe
|Permission=
|other_versions=
|other_fields=
}}

gives

DescriptionInstitution/2011	English: Birds of National Zoo in Washington, D.C. - Mandarin Duck (Aix galericulata)
Current location InfoField	National Zoological Park    Native name Smithsonian National Zoological Park Parent institution Smithsonian Institution  Location 3001 Connecticut Ave. NW, Rock Creek Park, Washington, D.C. Coordinates 38° 55′ 46″ N, 77° 02′ 59″ W   Established 1889  Website nationalzoo.si.edu Authority file : Q1043283 VIAF: 149525151 ISNI: 0000000121822028 ULAN: 500311474 LCCN: n79079548 OSM: 10511120 WorldCat institution QS:P195,Q1043283
Date	19 September 2010, 17:05:31
Source	Own work
Author	John Doe

--Jarekt (talk) 03:02, 15 October 2011 (UTC)

Location field

The way the location varies across templates (city, city + country or complete address as in the Zoo above. Should we use {{Building address}} ? It would provided a standardized framework. It would also provide a simple way to add the name of the building (many French museums are located in famous buildings and it is something I never really know how to add). And apparently the template is designed to be easily usable in OpenStreetmap. On the other hand, it is a bit lengthy both to fill and to read. The example below is probably an extreme case.

Musée Lorrain
	Native name	Musée Lorrain
	Parent institution	city of Nancy
	Location	Palais des Ducs de Lorraine 64 Grande Rue 54000 Nancy France
	Coordinates	48° 41′ 49″ N, 6° 10′ 49″ E
	Established	1834
	Website	www1.nancy.fr
	Authority file	: Q3330634 VIAF: 168735442 ISNI: 0000000123702353 LCCN: n81125922 GND: 26820-3 SUDOC: 026548275 WorldCat

institution QS:P195,Q3330634

--Zolo (talk) 06:45, 24 October 2011 (UTC)

I always thought that in most cases the address was just one click away in the articles about the institutions or on the institutions websites. This might be the case with big, well known museums but not with small churches, etc. As a result I was not adding addresses to the templates, but was also not removing them when other add them. So may be the recommendation should be that the address should be added in the location field, for small institutions, but avoided in case of the big ones? It is a little like references in {{Creator}}: if you are linking to the article with 100's of references than there is no need to provide them but when the template is about less known person without any articles than references should be provided. --Jarekt (talk) 14:20, 1 December 2011 (UTC)

Yes I would agree with that. In most cases adding the address may actually be rather confusing and not very useful (people just need the city) if they wish to travel just to find the depicted artwork they can spend to few clicks for the search. I think it is mainly useful for rather obscure institutions that local people may discover through Commons (admittedly not likely to be a frequent case, but it may happen for institutions like Infirmerie Marie-Thérèse, Paris (never heard of the before though I dont live far from it).--Zolo (talk) 17:24, 1 December 2011 (UTC)

 Done I changed the documentation to add recommendation about use of {{Building address}}--Jarekt (talk) 20:55, 1 December 2011 (UTC)

{{GeoPolygon}}

That's something I had long hoped we would get one day. I just was not aware that we had had it for 4 years... It could make sense to add it to {{Institution}} (see Category:Cemetery Père-Lachaise). I am just lazy about adding it (could wait for an institution transatewikification, so that it is quicker to edit :).--Zolo (talk) 09:51, 1 December 2011 (UTC)

I like it but I would like to figure out how to best add it. We could add "outline" link in Coordinates, however that would make it harder to add link to OSM outlines like OSM. We could just add: behind coordinates if we have outline information. --Jarekt (talk) 14:41, 1 December 2011 (UTC)

Also we should check if the process still works by adding a new {{GeoPolygon}} template. Some Geocodding templates work with combinations with bots that look for pages with such template, then they harvest and process the data and than display already processed data. When the bot goes down new pages are not processed. --Jarekt (talk) 17:22, 1 December 2011 (UTC)

Actually yes we need some thought beforehand. If we had too many links, it will look real clutterd. I wonder if we really need to have the coordinates displayed. I dont think many people care about it directly. They are mostly a tool to access the map. So maybe we could do without it, eg:

foo
Coordinates	48° 51′ 43″ N, 2° 23′ 39″ E

--Zolo (talk) 17:31, 1 December 2011 (UTC)

May be we can suppress coordinates when outlines are provided, but keep them otherwise. Most templates will only have coordinates and I think they look better with coordinates then single icon --Jarekt (talk) 20:03, 1 December 2011 (UTC)

What I had in mind that to always provide the Google and OSM link that would link to the polygon when available and to the single-point coordinate otherwise. This would allow to bypass the rather messy Geohack page, but it would also give some kind of slightly unfair advantage to theses two websites.--Zolo (talk) 20:11, 1 December 2011 (UTC)

I kind of like the coordinates, it makes things less secret and allows people to easily cut&paste or even type them into other programs or gadgets. I added 2 icons to Template:Institution/coordinates for quick access to the maps. Than we can overwrite those defaults with polygons if they are provided. However before we do all this work lets make sure there is no strong opposition to adding those 2 icons to the template. --Jarekt (talk) 04:52, 2 December 2011 (UTC)

 Done Clicking on the Google or OSM icons below will link to outlines instead of coordinates. --Jarekt (talk) 21:58, 5 December 2011 (UTC)

Père Lachaise Cemetery
	Native name	Cimetière du Père-Lachaise
	Parent institution
	Location	8 Boulevard de Ménilmontant 75020 Paris France
	Coordinates	48° 51′ 43″ N, 2° 23′ 39″ E
	Established	1804
	Authority file	: Q311 VIAF: 135988342 LCCN: n82144566 OSM: 11838120 GND: 4075890-4 SUDOC: 027502864 WorldCat

institution QS:P195,Q311

Thanks, I think it looks good with this small Google icon.--Zolo (talk) 22:24, 5 December 2011 (UTC)