Commons talk:WikiProject Heraldry and vexillology/archive/2023

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Confusing: The meaning of "…in heraldry" in category names

Hello, there is this Template:Category heraldic figure which says “…in heraldry” means “…in shield and not in crest”.

Attention: This category contains media relating to a charges in heraldry displayed in the shield.

It is a subcategory of Category:Charges in heraldry.

In this context, as for all the other subcategories of Category:Charges in heraldry, “…in heraldry” means “…in shield and not in crest”. In the same way, Category:Charges in heraldry must not be confused with the Category:Heraldic external ornaments.

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The Commons:WikiProject Heraldry will help you to organize and sort coats of arms images.
For description and categorization, the template {{Tincture}} can be used.

I think this is not anymore actual. See for example

In these categories you can find also the following subcategories:

I think it makes absolutely sense like this! And it is a bit complicate to try to explain everywhere that "…in heraldry" do not means "…in heraldry".

So I propose to update the text in the template. Regards. --W like wiki good to know 16:37, 5 January 2023 (UTC)

PS: And in the future we have maybe a clear system like:

--W like wiki good to know 16:37, 5 January 2023 (UTC)

Confusing: Meaning of "Heraldic …"

Hello, it is a bit confusing: Category:Heraldic crowns (and other "Heraldic …") are sorted under Category:Heraldic external ornaments. So the reader will understand, that "Heraldic crowns", "Heraldic helmets‎", "Heraldic crests‎",… are the names for the Heraldic external ornaments, but on top of the subpages it is written that Category:Heraldic [crowns, helmets,…] are for "representations of heraldic [crowns, helmets,…] alone"! And these representations are not only used for external ornaments instead also for charges. And plus on top it is written: "For [crowns,…] as external ornament, see Category:[crowns,…] in crest.":

The Commons:WikiProject Heraldry will help you to organize and sort coats of arms images.
This category should only contain representations of heraldic crowns alone.

 Info For crowns as external ornament, see Category:Crowns in crest.
 Info For crowns as charge (on a shield), see Category:Crowns in heraldry.

So question: Meaning of "Heraldic [crowns]" e.g. should be "external ornament" or "Crowns alone (isolated, croped) used in heraldry"?? The category names should be more precise. Regards --W like wiki good to know 16:39, 8 January 2023 (UTC)

I need heraldic descriptions of the following files

For example the "Coat of arms of Đà Lạt" has the description "1975 Or, Lang Biang mountains Gules, on a chief Gules, a tiger passant Proper. Supporters dexter a naked aboriginal Koho woman Proper, sinister an aboriginal Koho man Proper holding his spear Sable. Motto: DAT ALIIS LÆTITIAM ALIIS TEMPERIEM.".

Could someone do this for the Hanoian and Haiphongian coats of arms? Please ping. --Donald Trung 『徵國單』 (No Fake News 💬) (WikiProject Numismatics 💴) (Articles 📚) 16:37, 17 May 2023 (UTC)

For Hai Phong le blasonnemente en français peut être:
d'azur, au dauphin vif d'or, crêté, barbé, loré, peautré et oreillé de gueules, au chef de gueules chargé de trois besants d'argent
Ecu accolé à l'ancre d'or e surmonte par une couronne murale d'argent
Motto: Fortunam tulit in undis. Massimop (talk) 13:23, 19 May 2023 (UTC)
Massimop, thank you very much. Using Google Translate I get:
"Azure, to the dolphin quick Or, crested, barbed, gilded, skinned and eared Gules, a chief Gules charged with three bezants Argent. Ecu joined to the gold anchor and surmounted by a silver mural crown.
Motto: Fortunam tulit in undis."
Some of it is useful but the rest seems oddly translated. By the way, are you sure that it's a dolphin and not a fish? -- — Donald Trung 『徵國單』 (No Fake News 💬) (WikiProject Numismatics 💴) (Articles 📚) 13:43, 19 May 2023 (UTC)
Looking at the image again and seeing the nose, yeah it's a dolphin. My bad. For whatever reason I assumed that it was a fish because of the differently coloured fins. — Donald Trung 『徵國單』 (No Fake News 💬) (WikiProject Numismatics 💴) (Articles 📚) 15:10, 19 May 2023 (UTC)
In french heraldry that is the dolphin of a lot of coats of arms. Department of Drôme has the same dolphin, but azure instead of or in a field or instead of azure Massimop (talk) 16:02, 19 May 2023 (UTC)
  • Another thing is how to translate "Dis lecta fortitudine prospera". Google Translate gives "Push the chosen strength and prosper", people at the comment section of this Reddit post at "r/VietNam" suggested that "Dis lecta fortitudine prospera" should be translated as "wealth having been chosen by prosperous strength" (RicksBrainwave), "...whose strength prospers" or "...where strength prospers." (TheDeadlyZebra), though user "u/bahnmiii avatar - bahnmiii" wrote concerning it "3y - No, I dunno Latin. Fortitudine and prospera sounds like fortitude and prosperity in English though. Personally, I am inclined to think that it means "Where strength prospers".
Furthermor, user "bahnmiii" wrote: "3y - Explanation of the coat of arms: The sword is Le Loi's legendary Thuan Thien sword. It is attended by two dragons." regarding the sword, so the sword would probably be have to be described as such. --Donald Trung 『徵國單』 (No Fake News 💬) (WikiProject Numismatics 💴) (Articles 📚) 16:54, 19 May 2023 (UTC)
Best translation, for me, is wealth having been chosen by prosperous strength because: dis (latin word for wealth), lecta (latin word for choosen), fortitudine (latin word for strenght), prospera (latin word for prosperous). It means that the wealth is choosen by the strenght when it is favorable. Massimop (talk) 22:57, 19 May 2023 (UTC)
Massimop, thank you very much for your explanations. -- — Donald Trung 『徵國單』 (No Fake News 💬) (WikiProject Numismatics 💴) (Articles 📚) 15:34, 21 May 2023 (UTC)

Category:Tierced per fess, a fess

How is Category:Tierced per fess, a fess meant to be distinguished from Category:Tierced per fess shields? For example, why is File:Cuza family coat of arms (Hagi-Mosco version).svg "tierced per fess, a fess" but File:CoA fr Baie-Mahault.svg is "tierced per fess"; is this an intelligible and maintainable distinction? Should Category:Tierced per fess, a fess just be merged into Category:Tierced per fess shields? -sche (talk) 23:07, 24 May 2023 (UTC)

Tierced per fess is a shield wich three fields of de same height. Category Tierced per fess, a fess is defined as Shield is not parted into three equal fields, but 2 is a fess (bend), which is a wrong definition: should be Parti per fess, a fess. so we could understand that the shield is party per fess and a fess is lying over the partition. In this case height of fist and third field are the same, where the height of the fess is more little. So those two categories should not be merged, but the second category should be renamed correctly. --Massimop (talk) 12:17, 25 May 2023 (UTC)

Where to get started?

I am a nearly-monolingual English speaker interested in participating in this project. Given this, I'd like to know the following:

  • Is there a list of blasons needing rendering somewhere? (I can use DrawShield to translate some blasons.)
  • Does the normal guideline to refrain from reuploading SVGs with reduced filesizes but no visible changes still apply to the SVG coat of arms elements, even though they are frequently reused in other images?
  • Is it okay for non-Francophones to edit fr:Projet:Blasons/Meubles so that it points to 'better' renderings of charges (e.g. Tapir.svg in place of Meuble héraldique Tapir.svg)?
  • Is there any wish list for new additions to SVG coat of arms elements - charges?

Thanks, Ilzolende (talk) 22:34, 31 May 2023 (UTC)

Ilzolende, when it comes to overwriting files please read "Commons:Overwriting existing files", you are always free to improve existing SVG files and then uploading it at the same file. Regarding adding new SVG coat of arms elements, I think that there's always a demand for more as there are plenty of costs of arms that haven't been uploaded to the Wikimedia Commons yet.
Furthermore I'd advise you to check out "Commons:Graphic Lab/Illustration workshop" where many users frequently request SVG coats of arms to be created, so if you have the technical skills you will likely easily find examples of coat of arms elements that are missing in the aforementioned category. -- — Donald Trung 『徵國單』 (No Fake News 💬) (WikiProject Numismatics 💴) (Articles 📚) 22:58, 31 May 2023 (UTC)
A coat of arms displaying a Chinese phoenix.
  • @Ilzolende: , as you expressed interest in adding more SVG elements for coats of arms I found that while importing Oriental coats of arms to the Wikimedia Commons that these are all severely lacking in representation (likely due to the heraldic culture in the Far East being much more recent than in Europe), I found this coat of arms with the description "A blazon containing a phượng hoàng standing (rampant) in front of a mountain with the Chinese characters "Nam Phương hoàng hậu" (南芳皇后) written right-to-left above the bird.", do you think that it is possible to make SVG elements from such a vague scan or is it too difficult to make out? --Donald Trung 『徵國單』 (No Fake News 💬) (WikiProject Numismatics 💴) (Articles 📚) 11:36, 1 June 2023 (UTC)

Image drawn from blazon incorrectly

yet the images are identical: both have the upper half of the field green, and the "vestment" around it silver, with the colours of the bottom half reversed. My understanding is that iff the blazon is correct, File:Blason ville fr Arques (Aude).svg should actually have the upper half of the field silver with green "vestment", and the lower half green with silver "vestment"; compare File:Blason GregoireXII.svg ("Coupé d'azur et d'argent vêtu de l'un en l'autre"). The other possibility is that the image is right and the blazon provided is wrong. -sche (talk) 22:48, 21 May 2023 (UTC)

I think that Coupé de sinople et d'argent, vêtu de l'un en l'autre is the correct blazon for Châteney and for Arques.--Massimop (talk) 17:19, 22 May 2023 (UTC)
Ok. I've asked a French speaker for input. Perhaps they know whether it is the image or the text which is wrong; if not, we can change the blazon to match the image. -sche (talk) 20:11, 29 May 2023 (UTC)
Today, 31 may 2023, the image of Arques is: Coupé d'argent et de sinople, vêtu de l'un en l'autre. In the time from 28 may 2009 to 30 may 2023 the image of Arques is: Coupé de sinople et d'argent, vêtu de l'un en l'autre. The new image need a new blazon, obviously.--Massimop (talk) 19:35, 31 May 2023 (UTC)
(The existing, longstanding blazon describes the image that's there now; the issue was that this blazon was always present, and correctly described the original upload with silver on top, but for a time someone changed the image to green on top; I restored silver on top per the blazon and original image.) -sche (talk) 17:41, 3 June 2023 (UTC)

chevrons couched

We had three files with chevrons turned like < categorized as Category:Chevrons couched dexter in heraldry, and two would-be illustrations, File:Pieza - cabrio echado contornado.svg and File:Pieza - cabrio echado.svg. AFAICT, these were named incorrectly (backwards) : Walter Arthur Copinger's Heraldry Simplified describes an image of a <-shaped chevron as "couched sinister", and James Parker's Glossary of Terms Used in Heraldry likewise has an image of "three chevronels couched sinister" which are clearly <. I have fixed the categorization and (English) descriptions of the files. (Does anyone know whether the Spanish descriptions are also backwards?) If someone has sources which support the former claim that < is "couched dexter", I can undo my few changes and we can discuss. -sche (talk) 19:14, 3 June 2023 (UTC)

In italian, french and spanish heraldry chevron proper has the point on the top, where reversed chevron has the point on the bottom; couched chevron has the point toward dexter side of the escutcheon, where contournee couched chevron has the point toward sinister side of the escutcheon (dexter side is on the left of observer, and sinister side is on the right of observer). If the same rule applie to the british heraldry, chevron couched dexter is the couched chevron, where chevron couched sinister is the contournee couched chevron. Massimop (talk) 22:01, 3 June 2023 (UTC)
Interesting. In English heraldry, from the earliest examples I can find (Joseph Edmondson's 1780 A Complete Body of Heraldry, volume 2 likewise has < as "couched sinister"), through the 1800s and 1900s, through the 2000s (e.g. this modern site), "couched X" always means issuant from X (not pointing to X). -sche (talk) 01:41, 4 June 2023 (UTC)
I supposed that basic heraldic rules was the same over all the european countries, but perhaps I had a wrong idea. For IT, FR, E an heraldic object is in normal position when it is pointing to the top, if vertical, or to the right, if horizontal. Any other position must be declared by specific attributes. So the chevron (vertical object) without any attribute is pointing to the top; if it is pointing to the bottom is reversed chevron. The couched chevron without any other attribute is pointing to the right (dexter side) where is a contournee couched chevron if it is pointing to the left (sinister side). From your document, on the contrary, couched chevron must be always declared as couched chevron dexter (position that is contournee for IT, FR, E) or couched chevron sinister (position that no needs any attribute for IT, FR, E). This misunderstanding is the origin of wrong definition on the related pages of commons, when category Chevrons couched dexter uses translations cabrio echado and chevron couché (wrong) instead cabrio echado contornado and chevron couché contourné. The same wrong translations are in the page of category Chevrons couched sinister with chevron couché contourné where the image of pieza - cabrio echado has the correct definition. Could be useful a clarification and standardization of heraldic definitions among the various languages. Massimop (talk) 13:39, 5 June 2023 (UTC)

Moving Category:Chandeliers in heraldry to Category:Candlesticks in heraldry?

The chandeliers category contains a lot of candles on candlesticks, as does the candles category. The chandeliers category contains no objects that modern English speakers tend to call chandeliers, as far as I know. I've thus proposed we move the category. I think it'll make it more likely that people will put candles on candlesticks all in one category.

I bring this up here in case anyone has evidence that the heraldic charge of a candlestick ought to be called a chandelier, or some other reason to not do this move.

—Ilzolende (talk) 01:47, 27 July 2023 (UTC)

Could it be that the term chandelier was being used because it is the French word for candlestick or candle holder? It seems to me that heraldry uses French words for a lot of things. If this is the case, then the question is whether to use the French term or the English one. -- Auntof6 (talk) 05:36, 20 August 2023 (UTC)
I realize SCA sources are likely not authoritative for historic heraldry, but Mistholme and such seem happy to call the figure a candlestick. —Ilzolende (talk) 18:17, 3 September 2023 (UTC)

Tincture systematization for a country

Hi! I am new here, so I need some help to orient myself.

I made an alysis of tincture colours of heraldic symbols for modern settlements in Georgia. I want to publish my gathered statistics and try to make together some list of recomendations, RS and convetions for those, who work with those files, so there will be less of random colourization. For example, compare File:Flag of Chiatura Municipality.svg and File:Flag of Vani Municipality.svg – these must have identical colours for azure, vert and gold.

It's not that I want to impose only my view. My main idea is to have a single place to discuss such topic and also to write down my argumentation for my edits in future.

Do you have such practice? Plaga med (talk) 22:55, 3 December 2023 (UTC)

@Plaga med: That is all fine and dandy for analyzing previous art, but if you want to enforce specific tincture color values on new art by others that is a hard pass. Also, digital representation of the gold color is always difficult because of differing perceptions of the reflectivity of real gold in differing lighting conditions. You may, of course, upload new art with your preferred tincture color values. You may also want to post to Talk:საქართველო.   — 🇺🇦Jeff G. ツ please ping or talk to me🇺🇦 23:30, 3 December 2023 (UTC)
But I see a lot of cases, when people change colours of some symbols just saying something like "it looks better". Is there is no way to make this work in a more systematic way?
I like how it looks with German heraldry, they have some conventions on tincture for every region. It would be nice to make this practice wider, even if we are in the situation with a lack of RS on the topic.
I want to do something with cases like File:Flag of Chiatura Municipality.svg, in this cases it is clear with other RS that colours must not differ from other flags of municipalities. So I have 3 options:
- Start discussion somewhere, show my full argumentation and make some convention to improve those cases.
- Edit the file with sortened argumentation in the comment for my edit.
- Upload a new file with other colour and, once again, not full argumentation. Plaga med (talk) 23:43, 3 December 2023 (UTC)
@Plaga med Your first option is up to you, perhaps in a new section here (archived after 90 days), in your userspace, or on Talk:საქართველო. Your second option is prohibited by COM:OW until you have been granted COM:AP at COM:RFR, and even then is frowned upon due to different licensing. Any upload may mention a link to the discussion in your first option.   — 🇺🇦Jeff G. ツ please ping or talk to me🇺🇦 23:53, 3 December 2023 (UTC)
It means that I can't change colour codes even a little bit because of licensing? I saw many cases where there were colour corrections, compressions of files etc. Sometimes there are more major edits. I think that in most cases I am permitted to correct colour codes with some argumentation, e.g. a link to a discussion. Plaga med (talk) 23:59, 3 December 2023 (UTC)
@Plaga med: Yes, the proposal to "Limit file overwriting to users with autopatrol rights" was accepted with many supports and one weak oppose 15:19, 23 September 2023 (UTC). After an implementation problem in phab:T345896 and testing, Special:AbuseFilter/290 went live with the Disallow action 09:35, 28 October 2023 (UTC). Please read MediaWiki:abusefilter-warning-file-overwriting. You may request COM:AP at COM:RFR when you think you are ready (once you have made more than 500 useful non-botlike edits); having that should allow you to overwrite.   — 🇺🇦Jeff G. ツ please ping or talk to me🇺🇦 00:36, 4 December 2023 (UTC)

Tincture system for Georgian official heraldry

After discussion above I've desided to write down my thoughts and collected info on the topic here.

I looked over the situation with Georgian heraldry at Commons and I was impressed how much work is done by the community and the State Council. And I think that it is time to try systemize tincture of it, because there are some irregularities, where they shouldn't be.

I looked at some flags and COA descriptions at ctwflags, State Council of Heraldry at the Parliament of Georgia site and other RS, took colour-names from description and created a table of tincture for some files with colour-codes. On the way I found some issues that can be easilly fixed.


Tincture comparison list
File Tincture Description
RedWhite description, legal specifications with colour code, other legal description
Red (Sang.)OrSilverSilver0Black0 description, legal schematic view
Red (purple)GoldWhite (silver)0Black0 description
Red (purple)GoldWhiteSilver0Black0 description, crwflags
Red (sang.?)BlueGoldWhite (silver)0Black0 official svg-logo
RedBlue (azure)White description
RedBlue (azure)White (argent) description, legal description
Red (purple)Green (vert)Blue (azure)GoldDark goldWhite (silver) description, legal description
Red (dark?)Blue (dark?)GoldWhite description, description from city's site
Red (Sang.)Blue (azure)Gold (or)White (argent) description
Green (vert)Blue (azure)Gold (or) description
Green (vert)Blue (azure)Gold (or)0Black0 + Golden gradient description - if there were doubts, from the description and the picture on the site, gradient and gold are the same or colour.
Gules (shield)Gules (bow)Blue (azure)Gold (or)Argent (pegasus) + 0Black (sable)0 ebebedff / afb0b2ff  Argent gradient description - there must be no variations of gules (red)
Red (gules)Green (vert)Blue (azure)White (argent) description
Red (gules)Green (vert)Blue (azure)White (argent) description
Red (gules)Green (vert)White description
Red (gules)Green (vert)Blue (azure)Gold (or) description
Red (gules)Green (vert)Blue (azure)White (argent) description
Purpure (murrey)White (argent) description (community)
White (argent)Argent (crown) +  92386aff / 5a2d4fff  Purpure (murrey) gradient (middle is  76325cff ) description (community)
Purpure (murrey)White (argent) description (city)
Red (gules)Purpure (murrey)White (argent) +  ebebedff / afb0b2ff  Argent gradient description (city)
Porphyry (garnet)Yellow (or) description
Red (gules)PurpureYellow (or) description - there is some mistake in the flag's description.
Red (sang.)Green (vert)White description
Red (gules)Green (vert)Blue (azure)White (argent) description
Green (vert)White (argent) description
Red (gules)Green (vert)Gold (or) description
Red (gules)White (argent) description
Red (gules)Gold (or)White (argent) description
Green (vert)Blue (azure)Gold (or)White (argent) description
Red (gules)Green (vert)White (argent) description
Red (gules)Green (vert)Blue (azure)White (argent) description
Red (gules)Green (vert)Gold (or)Dark or description
Red (gules)White (argent) description - note that in the COA description they use sanguine as synonym of gules.
Red (gules)Gold (or)White (argent) description
Green (vert?)Gold (or)0Black0 description
Red (gules)Gold (or) description
Red (sang.)Blue (azure)White (argent) description
Red (gules)White (argent) description
Red (gules)Red (ribbon)Red (ribbon)White (argent)0Black0 +  ebebedff / afb0b2ff  Argent gradient description
EmeraldGold (or)White (argent) description
EmeraldBlue (azure)Gold description, notice that colours of the local FC are similar to other symbols
Statistics from the list
Colour Codes
RED/GULES 0ff0000ff0 (3) 0ed3338ff0 (9) 0ec3237ff0 (7) 0ee1b25ff0 (3) 0ee1b24ff0 (1) 0d81e05ff0 (1) 0ef3340ff0 (1) 0ce2030ff0 (1) 0fe0000ff0 (1) 0d9261fff0 (1) 0da251cff0 (1) 0ce372aff0 (1)
SANGUINE/PURPLE 0e40000ff0 (3) 0de2118ff0 (1)
GREEN/VERT 000923fff0 (3) 000a85aff0 (11) 0338000ff0 (2) 000a95cff0 (1)
EMERALD  00ff01ff  (1)  17f902ff  (1)
BLUE/AZURE 02c5aa0ff0 (4) 02a55a3ff0 (3) 01a3783ff0 (2) 0005197ff0 (1) 03e4095ff0 (1) 01565aeff0 (1) 03255a4ff0 (1) 02384c6ff0 (1) 0223a87ff0 (1) 00000b6ff0 (1) 00030ffff0 (1)
GOLD/OR/YELLOW  f9c300ff  (3)  ffcc2aff  (7)  ffcc00ff  (2)  ffff00ff  (2)  bfa469ff  (1)  f6d11aff / f6d11aec  (1)  d2ab67ff  (1)  ffcc29ff  (1)  f7c52bff  (1)  f7c001ff  (1)  ffcd00ff  (1)
DARK GOLD/DARK OR  a58200ff  (1)  ff99556e  (1)
MURREY/PURPURE 08c3256ff0 (2) 0782d4cff0 (1) 0833d59ff0 (1) 092386aff0/05a2d4fff0 ← 076325cff0 (1)
PORPHYRY/GARNET 08d415dff0 (1)
WHITE/SILVER/ARGENT  ffffffff  (21)  fefefeff  (10)  f0f0f0ff  (3)  ebebedff / afb0b2ff  (3)  bdbdbbff  (1)  f6f3e1ff  (1)
BLACK/SABLE 0000000ff0 (7) 0231f20ff0 (1)

Also, colouristic of this legal document implies that the red, blue and white colours of the National, Adjara, Kutaisi, Akhmeta and Military (not sure about the last one) flags must be the same.

Maybe red and white colours from the National flag, that were strictly specified in a legal document, can be a clue to the full tincture for all Georgian state symbols. Maybe someone can calculate precise colour-codes for azure, vert, or, sable and purpure from this? Looking at my analysis, this ticture must be mostly universal for all symbols.

My conclusions from all that I have for now.

  • There are some mistakes that can be fixed right away after analysing RS.
  • There are differences in colouristics even at the site of State Council, but generally tincture is stable and it is developped.
  • There is tendency to use gradients for Or and Argent in the COAs (but sometimes there is no gradient inside the shields). Sometimes I see that in the flag description they use white and yellow, and argent and or in COA (but mostly metal colours also used in flags descriptions).
  • In some symbols (like the Tbilisi flag) they use some pale gold colour, but in descriptions it is gold and I am puzzled, do we need to keep the colour or to bring back some more indicative tone.
  • Gules and red are synonyms, but I am not sure about sanguine and purple (they seem to be synonyms too). I see no big defference, but at the site of Council they are using both gules and sanguine in different descriptions, but there is no symbol with both sanguine and gules.
  • Emerald ≠ vert.
  • Murrey = purpure, murrey ≠ porphyry. I don't see a big difference of those shades in practice.

I suggest to use:

  • 0ff0000ff0 for red everywhere (including sanguine).
  • 000923fff0 as green (vert) everywhere.
  •  00ff01ff  as emerald everywhere.
  • 02c5aa0ff0 as blue (azure) everywhere.
  •  f9c300ff  as gold (or) everywhere, except gradients.
  • 08c3256ff0 as murrey, purple and porphyry everywhere.
  •  ffffffff  as white (argent) everywere, except gradients.
  • 0000000ff0 as black (sable) everywhere.

But first of all I ask you for feedback. Plaga med (talk) 02:33, 5 December 2023 (UTC)

@Plaga med: I have some feedback for you, since you asked. I can't read black on black. I have trouble reading black on dark colors like green, blue, and purple without lots of brightness due to low contrast - can you use white as the foreground color instead? Can you include the filenames and blazons in your table? In the future, you also may want to expand your analysis to tinctures used in other jurisdictions because heraldry and vexillology are not limited to Georgia, they are worldwide.   — 🇺🇦Jeff G. ツ please ping or talk to me🇺🇦 05:59, 5 December 2023 (UTC)
Thank you! I see the issue with colours, and I need to change the template to {{Colorbox}} everywhere, where needed. Note that every link leads directly to a page with blazon, but it will be good to duplicate it here. Also I need to notice that tincture can differ even inside one country, like in Germany, what it is well-described in {{Tincture}} and other articles. So every country and sometimes every region should be studied separately. Plaga med (talk) 07:05, 5 December 2023 (UTC)
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