Commons:Featured picture candidates/File:Legiony 1914-1916.png

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File:Legiony 1914-1916.png, not featured[edit]

Voting period is over. Please don't add any new votes.Voting period ends on 2 Jun 2010 at 21:37:07 (UTC)
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Map of the routes of the Polish Legions in World War I, 1914-1916
I don't think it is a valid point to oppose. There are quite a few non-svg maps at Commons:Featured pictures/Non-photographic media/Maps. As you say, it is a multilingual project, so we should allow maps in any language to become featured. Apparently there is no problem to have this English language png map featured. There are even featured French language jpg-maps out there... Given the serious rendering problems of SVG (on commons/wikipedia), I don't think that all illustrations should be svg. Maybe for simple diagrams it makes sense, but to have a complicated map render properly is virtually impossible. bamse (talk) 09:31, 25 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]
I am a big supporter of easy to translate maps, and prefer English language in general. But I don't think that either is a requirement for Featurement? Also, when I submit a map here, I try to make sure I provide English description that would make it easy to translate the map. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus Talk 21:52, 25 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]
The French language jpg-maps have been featured because of thee rendering problems you mention, of the file weight... and because there are SVG versions available! A map without SVG version available doesn't make it very useful for the projects in other languages. Sting (talk) 12:51, 25 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]
P.S.: It's not because raster maps without SVG versions have been promoted before that we should persist in what I think imho is an error.
Shall we also ask photographers to upload raw-files in addition to jpg? bamse (talk) 17:48, 25 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]
A very usefull comment... Sting (talk) 22:41, 26 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Glad you like it. If you think about it, the comparison of svg/raw files is not that far fetched. Compare for instance the situation where somebody uploads a photographic jpg-image with an off white balance (or oversharpened,...) to the case of a png or jpg map which has some factual error. In both cases, the image is easily fixed if there are raw (case 1) or svg (case 2) files available. BTW, I do support the idea of supplying svg maps for editing purposes in addition to png maps. There should be a better interface (an extra field or a template or something like it) at commons where one could clearly identify that the two files (svg and png) show the same thing. As I am aware of the current situation, one has to manually add this information to both image descriptions. bamse (talk) 06:43, 27 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]
The question here is not about quality but to be able to translate the map without needing to do a very painfull work again, work which has already been made by the author. Sting (talk) 14:55, 28 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Sure, but in either case it is about supplying the most usable file format for editing. bamse (talk) 19:43, 28 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  •  Oppose. I like it more than the other maps you recently nominated, but it suffers from many of the issues I mentioned there (not all of these are oppose reasons):
  • too many cities: only include very big cities in order to locate the map and those places that are relevant for the topic
  • badly aligned label: if possible align labels consistently (for instance bottom right); keep about the same distance to the dots
  • Some labels over front lines are difficult to read. Readability can be improved by adding a semi-transparent (70% or so) rectangle (filled with the background color) below the text label.
  • For the battles, I'd use only the sword sign (not swords and dots which makes it not clear at which of the two circles the battle was located).
  • Unless it is relevant for the topic, remove the Wisła.
  • Why is the dot at Krakow in another color?
  • I'd get rid of the title (i.e. move it to the image description) and if possible even of the legend (i.e. move it to the image description). That would also make it more usable for non-Polish speakers.
  • Why do some front lines in the legend have a date and others only a month? Were the really the same front line from the 1st to the last day of that respective month?
  • "marsze bojowe i przemarsze" is probably self-explanatory and could be removed from the legend.
  • Don't fancy the different styles of "Królestwo" and "Polske" which probably belong together.
  • I'm not familiar with the topic, but is it useful to have a map that shows only the movement of the Polish legions? Surely the other armies were also moving around.
  • The greens of Germany and Poland are possibly too close which could result in misunderstandings.
  • Because there is so much going on between Krakow and Radom, one could consider having a magnified view of that region next to the big map.
  • At the bottom, the brown legion exits and enters. Why is that part not included in the map?
  • There is an out-of-place yellow line around Sochaczew.

I'd be happy if these comments can help to improve the map. Did you contact the author, btw? bamse (talk) 12:04, 25 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]

  • Yes, I did. Unfortunately he says he has less time now to help out with the project. He will try to take points from here into consideration, but he is pretty sure he has no time to redo the maps in svgs. Regarding "marsze bojowe i przemarsze", I think the legend for those should remain, but should probably be simplified (as a Polish speaker, I am not that fond of that... perhaps just "marsze" would be enough).
  • To answer your point about other armies: sure, but the map was intended (as requested) to show only the history of the Polish Legions (it is not the map of a war, but a map of the operations of certain units). Thank you (and others) for your valid comments! --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus Talk 21:50, 25 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Fair enough, showing only the Polish Legions. As for "marsze", I just though that you could avoid repeating it five times by having a heading in the legend which says "marsze..." once and below that the arrows with just the names of the legions. Same with the front line, just say "linia frontu" once and have just the lines with dates below that. bamse (talk) 10:43, 26 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  •  Oppose - As the map nominated below, it misses fundamental geographic information (topography, hydrography, meridians and parallels, etc.) . In this particular case, it seems obvious that the depiction of the relief and the hydrographic network would put the thematic information in its proper context. Finally, this is a multilingual project and the use of the Polish language prevents this map from having a broader utility. -- Alvesgaspar (talk) 12:55, 25 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]
As for geographic information, see my comments here. I am not very familiar with the topic of the map, but curious: how would the relief and rivers help to "put the thematic information in its proper context" (I suppose you want to say that the thematic information and relief/rivers are related, but how?)? As for the Polish language, how about the "broader utility" of this featured English language only map? bamse (talk) 15:28, 25 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]
This map focuses on political borders. A geophysical map could be made, but would it be more useful? Note that bamse above suggests that the single river is not helpful. Bamse: I am not sure what point are you trying to make with the other map you link? --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus Talk 21:52, 25 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Fully agree with you, that a geophysical map is not useful here. I linked the other maps in order to show that there are featured maps which are not svg and only available in a single language. This in reply to comments by Dschwen and Alvesgaspas. bamse (talk) 10:43, 26 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  •  Comment - Most thematic maps have a background of base information (topographic, hydrographic, etc.) to help contextualize the specialized information, whatever it might be. In this particular case, depicting the motion of troops, the usefulness of relief and hydrographic information is obvious. Like Waldo Tobler wrote in his 'First Law of Geography' ([1]), Everything [on the surface of the Earth] is related to everything [...]. -- Alvesgaspar (talk) 23:00, 25 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • I suppose that the motion of troops was determined by other factors than topgoraphy/hydrography. To you it may seem obvious, to me it does not, unless you (or somebody else) can point out that the depicted routes follow rivers, avoid mountains or some such. I am afraid that topography would complicate the map unnecessarily and make it more difficult to read it. bamse (talk) 10:43, 26 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Confirmed results:
Result: 1 support, 4 oppose, 0 neutral → not featured. /George Chernilevsky talk 07:07, 30 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]
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