Category talk:Images from the Canadian Copyright Collection at the British Library

fixing names?

Wondering if it's appropriate - possible? - to correct misspelled names or e.g. "niahara canon" or "Mount Cheain" (Cheam) or if the image titles are because of how the BL names them, and that's that? Yoko/Yoho is another one I just came across.Skookum1 (talk) 10:13, 7 July 2013 (UTC)

The BL names are usually transcribed from the caption (or the original indices?), and probably reflect transcription errors rather than anything else. I corrected quite a few obvious ones before the upload, but a lot more slipped through. Renaming typos shouldn't be a problem, but please make sure to rename both the JPEG and TIFF versions! Andrew Gray (talk) 14:35, 7 July 2013 (UTC)

You may wish to create a section here like: Commons:National Archives and Records Administration/Error reporting. We could add them to this talk page and then remove entries that are corrected.--Canoe1967 (talk) 14:52, 7 July 2013 (UTC)

If you note any below (with preferred title!) I'll move them en masse later and update them in the master list. Andrew Gray (talk) 21:19, 8 July 2013 (UTC)

• Just to note I am still logging these and will go through with a large-scale renaming (probably after Wikimania) - I've just had some other work come up in the past couple of weeks. Andrew Gray (talk) 17:55, 28 July 2013 (UTC)

Corrections

Add corrections below in file number order.

• HS85-10-12146 File:Niahara Canon Falls on the Esquimalt and Nanaimo Railway, Vancouver Island (for stereoscope) (HS85-10-12146).jpg and the matching .tiff

Misspelled, the correct spelling is....

"Niagara Canyon"....canon is the common older spelling of course.

• HS85-10-39203 File:Evening,_Mt_Cheain_(HS85-10-39203).jpg and the matching .tiff

"Mount Cheam"; official name is Cheam Peak but it's always called Mount Cheam or just Cheam. name error probably mis-read handwriting

• File:The Olympian Range, from Esquimalt (HS85-10-11325).jpg and its .tiff, not sure if necessary to change name, proper name is the Olympic Mountains, the pic is actually better used as an image for the Strait of Juan de Fuca.
• File:Tsimpsian_tribe_No_2010_(HS85-10-11581).jpg and its .tiff. Maybe modernized to Tsimshian is better, though Tsimpsean and Tsimpsian are definitely authentic and not mispellings, though archaic.
• I'm uncertain of this title, I had a close look at the title, and wonder what else it might be than "Maiden"...but if it is Maiden, it should be capitalized like the handrwriting appears to be (if that's an 'M' that is) File:The maiden of the Columbia River (HS85-10-16667).jpg. Where it is, looking at the lay of the land, I'm thinking in the area around Castlegar, the plateau-like mountains would be the southern Monashees NW of Trail and SW of Castlgar, anywhere else along the Columbia in Canada is much more alpine in nature....note the train at lower left, that must be the "Maiden" (Iron Maiden) of the CPR Southern Mainline (not sure if this is the Kettle Valley Railway stretch or not).....again, the date and identity/career of the photographer might say more. Whoever it was had to pack their 8x10 camera up the mountainside somehow, this isn't a snapshot so there's a reason this pic was taken...not a railway promotional shot.Skookum1 (talk) 16:57, 9 July 2013 (UTC)
• Wondering also about how to search for a photograher named in the licensing template, in this case Geraldine Moody re File:Raising_the_centre_pole,_sun_dance_tent_(HS85-10-10661).jpg and File:Klootchman and child (HS85-10-12286).jpg where knowing more about her might help establish which peoples it is who are represented; "klootchman" is a BC word but you do hear it, or did historically, on the Prairies, these two photos may be related but which Plains people it is can only be established by knowing where these pictures were taken.
• File:Tug-of-war (HS85-10-17534).jpg - should probably be 18534 and corrected caption; query filed. Andrew Gray (talk) 19:44, 9 July 2013 (UTC)
• File:View of Nanaimo Harbor showing the bastion and shipping (HS85-10-18676).jpg and .tif, "the Bastion" should be capitalized, and Cdn spelling on "Harbour". Those aren't shipping vessels, also, those are passenger vessels.Skookum1 (talk) 17:25, 9 July 2013 (UTC)
• File:Halcyon, BC (HS85-10-19656).jpg and .tif. Halcyon Hot Springs is the proper name, and is the name of the Wikipedia article I've just added this to; it's the official name, "Halcyon" was a short form, same as how Radium Hot Springs is colloquially referred to as Radium, Ainsworth Hot Springs as Ainsworth, and so on.Skookum1 (talk) 17:36, 9 July 2013 (UTC)
• File:Timmons football team Undefeated champions of the Porcupine District, 1913 (HS85-10-28390).jpg and .tif. "Timmins" (Ontario).Skookum1 (talk) 03:33, 11 July 2013 (UTC)
• File:Olympic Mtings From Esquimalut, B C (HS85-10-39165).jpg. "Olympic Mountains from Esquimalt, BC".Skookum1 (talk) 06:40, 11 July 2013 (UTC)
• Not exactly a misnaming but a location-ID per File:Buffalo in Elk Park, Alberta (HS85-10-19071).jpg and File:Canada's monopoly (HS85-10-19070).jpg, I'll be adding the Alberta category to the latter, it currently says location unidentified but it's the same bit of landscape in the Elk Park one...where that is remains debatable, though it might be worth mentioning/changing in the title to indicate that location; "Canada's monopoly" I don't think is in reference to the bison...but to the wide open spaces....; there's Elk Valley Park in Rocky View County, Alberta, near Calgary, and Elk Island Provincial Park on the Yellowhead. Might be somewhere else is meant entirely though.Skookum1 (talk) 16:25, 11 July 2013 (UTC)
• File:Town_of_Arrowhaed,_BC_(HS85-10-19895).jpg - "Arrowhead". Also corresponding TIFSkookum1 (talk) 04:59, 27 July 2013 (UTC)
• File:Nukusp, British Columbia (HS85-10-41041).jpg - "Nakusp". Also corresponding TIF.Skookum1 (talk) 05:03, 27 July 2013 (UTC)

Potentially problematic names

• This one isn't spelled wrong but the name is an issue, re "squaw", even "papoose" is questionable nowadays; my concern would be the use of this caption in text/articles. File:Blood Indian squaws, papooses, ponies and travois; Macleod, Alberta (HS85-10-13489).jpg plus the accompanying .tiff.
• wondering about capitalization, e.g. File:Indian_canoe_races_at_the_gorge_(HS85-10-11434).jpg where "the Gorge" should be capitalized. Unclear is this one File:The gorge (HS85-10-11326).jpg is the same Gorge or if it's in Ontario; the history of the photographer might be a clue...I note the "no author" category, most of these photographers don't have categories, should they?Skookum1 (talk) 05:05, 9 July 2013 (UTC)
• File:Squaw dance, Blackfoot Indians, Macleod, Alberta (HS85-10-18723).jpg and .tif, should be "women's dance", see above about the unsuitability of repeating period usage that's now held in disregard and considered demeaning. There are various others like this, also.Skookum1 (talk) 17:28, 9 July 2013 (UTC)
  • File:Blood squaws in war dress (HS85-10-18744).jpg and .tif. Same story, not sure how to retitle this; Tsuu T'ina women in war dress maybe.Skookum1 (talk) 17:36, 9 July 2013 (UTC)
  • File:Old time Peegan squaw with travois and papoose (HS85-10-18748).jpg, likewise, not sure how this would be retitled as far as squaw/woman goes, maybe "elder", "papoose" is dicey too, usage-wised, but also "Peigan" is the correct modern spelling.Skookum1 (talk) 18:00, 9 July 2013 (UTC)
    • further noting the American spelling is "Piegan", haven't looked to see what the category name is, might just be in Category:Blackfoot.Skookum1 (talk) 09:40, 13 July 2013 (UTC)
• File:Picking strawberries Mr Pyiiuui's orchard, Kelow-na, British Columbia (HS85-10-21212).jpg That surname strikes me as a mistranscription of handwriting, of what surname I can't guess; if those i's are L's it could be Welsh, maybe...it looks kinda Finnish, but the Okanagan was very white-bread Anglo-Saxon in these times, and though there were Europeans amid the Britons that was not so much the case in the Okanagan as elsewhere; it could be a mistranscribed Italian name, perhaps. I'm puzzled as to what this name might correctly be. The Japanese were not in the Okanagan region until the internments and relocations of World War II. In any case Kelowna does not have a hyphen in it.Skookum1 (talk) 16:55, 10 July 2013 (UTC)
• File:Mountain climbing on snowslioos (HS85-10-22100).jpg - "snowshoes", and gives us an idea of what that previous one's name-problem is; would have to see the writing to figure it out, I guess.Skookum1 (talk) 17:35, 10 July 2013 (UTC)

location/topic items of interest

How to figure these out may be via any bios or information on the photographer and year; some are very great photos, hard to say exactly where, or in need of further identification as to location/subject:

• File:Neptune's visit No 31 (HS85-10-11951).jpg Looks to be a military vessel, by its title crossing the Equator....no sign of a ship name anywhere, the guy at top is holding part of what can be seen is a banner, but it may be an emblem of Neptune; the hats kind of date it, and indicate also by the peaked stetsons it is a Canadian vessel, or contingent/crew anyway. The year (1901) and photographer may tell us something; perhaps Canadian troops bound for the Boer War, come to think of it.Skookum1 (talk) 16:02, 9 July 2013 (UTC)
  • Dunsford's other picture uploaded is File:Officers, Strathcona Horse No 30 (HS85-10-11950).jpg, which is 1901 and definitely troops heading for South Africa, so I think we can assume it's the same ship. (Note the series numbers - 30 and 31). Andrew Gray (talk) 19:40, 9 July 2013 (UTC)
• File:HMS Virago firing in honour of the King (HS85-10-11979).jpg This 1901 photo might be located as to which Pacific port this is seen in; I don't think it's Esquimalt, and it might be Coal Harbour in Vancouver; I looked at the fullsize and zoomed in at left there's a kind of trestle with a building on it, the look of the Stanley Park Causeway by that year was different, though, I think. It could be Esquimalt, maybe there's an old rail trestle along one side of the harbour, maybe; it's definitely not the Inner Harbour in Victoria; there look to be higher forested slopes half-hidden by fog/cloud, which weighs more in favour of an up island port or maybe Sooke Harbour if not Esquimalt. Digging around there may be records of where the Virago was stationed and/or docked on the day of the King's accession and/or coronation, which is what this must be; what date of the year that was would help maybe looking at old BC newspapers for a mention of a royal salute from the Virago. Original research maybe, but I don't think that matters in Wikimedia Commons (?).Skookum1 (talk) 16:08, 9 July 2013 (UTC)
• File:Bleak House, Quebec (HS85-10-12459).jpg. Where in Quebec is the question; there's no Bleak House on the Wikipedia dab page for that name; I'd imagine this is a family name, and there's a a reason for the photo and the name, of course.Skookum1 (talk) 16:17, 9 July 2013 (UTC)
• File:Mendelssohn Choir and Pittsburg Orchestra 2 prints (HS85-10-13779).jpg is mistitled, the date is 1903, hard to say if it's Dominion Day or the King's birthday or a royal visit or what; but it's definitely not the Mendelssohn Choir and Pittsburg Orchestra that's getting the full naval salute; I think it's Esquimalt Harbour.Skookum1 (talk) 16:27, 9 July 2013 (UTC)
  • Almost certainly a mistyped number, this one. (When I was editing I relied on the existing numbers - it didn't get matched to the names until upload). I'll see if I can figure out what it should be. Andrew Gray (talk) 19:35, 9 July 2013 (UTC)
• File:Mount Baker from Oak Bay, British Columbia (HS85-10-14463).jpg is a great pic, I noted the coords missing, and am wondering if the coords should be that of the subject, or the location it was taken from?Skookum1 (talk) 16:32, 9 July 2013 (UTC)
• File:Arrow Lake, Looking South (HS85-10-19896).jpg and .tif. This I think is from Arrowhead, British Columbia, it's in the same series/page as the image of that former town I just placed on Talk:Arrowhead, British Columbia because of a similar image from 1910 already on the article. Arrowhead was, as its name implies, at the very head of the Arrow Lakes, that would be the estuary of the Columbia River at right.Skookum1 (talk) 17:48, 9 July 2013 (UTC)
• File:Goat Mountain from the summit of Crown Mountain, Crow's Nest Pass, British Columbia (HS85-10-20122).jpg and .tif. Crown Mountain is a name found only in Vancouver's North Shore and in Strathcona Provincial Park on Vancouver Island. If there's a Goat Mountain in the Crowsnest, it may be possible to determine what was meant by "Crown Mountain" and label this accordingly; chances the Goat Mountain name is not on the map also, lots of names got forgotten/never recorded before official naming took place....
• File:Lady Columbia (HS85-10-20770).jpg This one is from the same spot as the "Maiden of the Columbia" one, and so I can tell where that other one is now, and that that's not a steam locomotive in it; it's the smokestack of the Trail, British Columbia smelter, and the stretch of the Columbia visible in the other is the same as that here, downstream from Trail proper.Skookum1 (talk) 17:32, 10 July 2013 (UTC)
• File:Bonnington_Falls,_Rossland,_B._C_(HS85-10-20781).jpg This is near Rossland, but not really; it's upstream from Castlegar towards Nelson; that's phase one of the Bonnington Falls power development aka Kootenay Canal Dam now, as its article is titled in Wikipedia; there is no Bonnington Falls article separate, the redirect goes to Kootenay River and shouldn't, I'm just prepping a stub for the community, and may add this one to the dam/generating station page though it doesn't look anything like that now.Skookum1 (talk) 18:00, 10 July 2013 (UTC)
• File:Vaseaux Lake, Okanagan Valley, British Columbia (HS85-10-21794).jpg, modern spelling is Vaseux Lake, which is the wiki article's title, though I'm fine with the older spelling, which is authentically French.....reason I'm listing this here is I think it may need to be mirrored, I'll have some Okanagan folks look at it, the bluff should be, I think, on the left, though this may be facing south.Skookum1 (talk) 18:07, 10 July 2013 (UTC)
• File:No 240 GTP first train from Prince Rupert mile 45, June 14, 1911 (HS85-10-25536).jpg. Title says 45, on the print it says mile 100 (which is Kitselas), but this looks to me to be in Prince Rupert itself, though I'm not familiar with the lay of the harbour/rail docks re that hill at right. The Nabob Brands warehouse doesn't strike me as being at Kitselas, which is a minor settlement/IR, and not at Terrace, which is the first urban/industrial settlement up the Skeena from Rupert.......and it wasn't anything yet.Skookum1 (talk) 03:55, 11 July 2013 (UTC)
• File:Revelstoke, British Columbia Power dam (HS85-10-24929).jpg I've queried on the list of electrical generating stations in BC as to if t his is the Illecillwaet River; the name is fine, though some confusion may exist because of the Revelstoke Canyon Dam, the modern one; this is definitely not on the Columbia River.Skookum1 (talk) 04:14, 11 July 2013 (UTC)
• File:Mt McBride (HS85-10-24784).jpg There are two Mt McBrides in BC, one on Vancouver Island, the other in the Premier Range of the Cariboo Mountains.....this looks to be the Rockies, and doesn't look like (to me) the geology of the Cariboo Mountains; noted on the Mount McBride talkpage on Wikipedia, maybe someone can identify/confirm it.Skookum1 (talk) 04:28, 11 July 2013 (UTC)
• Gee, it'd be nicer to have a higher-res fullsize image of these groups to crop from; images of the old original Lytton Hotel, one of BC's best of its time, are rare; certain locations here I'm puzzling over, but can't say much more without seeing a better scan, not that the BL is gonna let a scan crew in on a regular basis, or that someone would go to the bother of digging these out; maybe the Nat'l Archives scans are higher-res (?) File:Views of Lytton and vicinity, No 3 (HS85-10-28632).jpg and File:Views of Lytton and vicinity, No 2 (HS85-10-28631).jpg and File:Views of Lytton and vicinity, No 1 (HS85-10-28630).jpg.Skookum1 (talk) 06:01, 11 July 2013 (UTC)
• File:Holy_Trinity_Cathedral_(HS85-10-38886).jpg and .tif. I think this is the one in New Westminster, which doesn't have an article on it. The one in Quebec has a File:Cathedral_of_the_Holy_Trinity_Quebec_Interior.jpg similar apse and arches but different windows. I've been in the New West one years ago, there's some exterior shots around the web, I'll check later. The Ukrainian one in Winnipeg had its organizational beginnings in 1945, this shot is from 1921, and the Ukrainian Catholic one in New West is wood-frame not stone.Skookum1 (talk) 08:56, 11 July 2013 (UTC)
  • Windows match on the New West one so I'll add that category (New Westminster, British Columbia) and I guess there's a Cathedrals in Canada cat, I'll try that too.Skookum1 (talk) 09:05, 11 July 2013 (UTC)
• Various buffalo pics are now in Category:Bison if they weren't already.....one had Winnipeg on it, but it's from Silver Heights, Alberta, which is near Calgary, so removed that category. While the images in this collection in general have archaic names (when not misspelled) such that some of these are "the National Park, Banff, Northwest Territories" I'm wondering about the now-archaic "buffaloes" in the titles, whether it should be changed to "buffalo" which is also a plural; "buffaloes" looks strange; "herd of buffalo" is how it goes, in modern English anyway. See above about "Canada's monopoly" re Elk Park.Skookum1 (talk) 16:22, 11 July 2013 (UTC)

Ships

I found this Canadian registry when we were trying to find which ships picked up bodies from the Titanic. It may just be civilian ships though.--Canoe1967 (talk) 17:13, 9 July 2013 (UTC)

issue with uploaded crop....

I know I uploaded the right version, I cropped this one and in the "other versions" section, where I added it from, it still shows the frame which I'd cropped out; should I upload it directly, and match the file name plus "_crop"?Skookum1 (talk) 05:32, 12 July 2013 (UTC)

Hm, OK, what comes up with that link is cropped; it doesn't come up that way from the "other versions" table of the parent image. Why is that?Skookum1 (talk) 06:35, 12 July 2013 (UTC)

Hmm, but it doesn't come up that way when I use the filename on that link on a Wikipedia page (Camborne, British Columbia is where it is for now, going to add it to "pack train" or "pack horse", which ever - one is a redirect to the other).Skookum1 (talk) 06:37, 12 July 2013 (UTC)

Looks like a thumbnailing problem. I'd recommend leaving it for a few days and checking back to see if it's sorted itself. Andrew Gray (talk) 22:44, 12 July 2013 (UTC)

Sometimes with caching issues you can fix it by using in in an oddball size like 219px. I usually just put it in the other versions section and then revert after the cache clears: [File:image.jpg|thumb|left|219px] --Canoe1967 (talk) 02:25, 13 July 2013 (UTC)

I just made a version with better light/contrast.....should I upload it the same way or upload it separately......would it go in the same category as the main collection?Skookum1 (talk) 09:38, 13 July 2013 (UTC)

I had a good look at the full-size version, it's interesting because there's a bullwhip in flight if you note the lead horse, and the guy to its right far behind....Skookum1 (talk) 09:39, 13 July 2013 (UTC)

They are probably fine on the same file page. If someone really wants to use an older version in an article they can take one out of the history and load it to a new page.--Canoe1967 (talk) 06:11, 14 July 2013 (UTC)

I'm fine with lightly edited (eg contrast change, rotated, recropped) versions overwriting the jpg; just make sure not to overwrite the original tiff. Andrew Gray (talk) 22:29, 17 July 2013 (UTC)

I don't think anyone usually uses or edits tiffs. Even if they are overwritten by accident we can always revert and upload to a new file page if they really want a diff tiff. Jpg and png are the common ones that are used, cropped, improved, etc. Even drastic changes to jpg can stay on the same file page and be split if there is an edit war. I had a recent issue with File:Sally Field 1971.JPG, see the talk page as well.--Canoe1967 (talk) 01:12, 18 July 2013 (UTC)

Actually *I* use TIFFs all the time, but never mind that......I just got a deletion notice in my Wikipedia account about a crop of one of this series of images that portrayed Slocan City really well. I'd indicated on my upload it was derived from one of these, and thought I'd filled out the correct licensing...but nope, some finicky tidbit in the licensing didn't suit User:Fastily and he deleted it, even though it said straight out on it it was part of one of these PD images.....WHY?. See User_talk:Fastily#Slocan_City_pic. The image I took it from is File:Central British Columbia Series 13 (HS85-10-38108).jpg, it's the image at upper right.Skookum1 (talk) 04:35, 21 July 2013 (UTC)

I'd like to know how to license crops of these so I'm not constantly re-uploading things that trigger-happy deletionists don't even bother explaining why the license wasn't right. There's lots in these montages that could be used, once cropped, for article illustrations. File:Central British Columbia Series 7 (HS85-10-38102).jpg is I think Kamloops, I'm not sure, and the one main street shot would be good for that city's article. but I'm not going to bother even trying if I have to deal with someone who just wants to delete things instead of helping.Skookum1 (talk) 04:42, 21 July 2013 (UTC)

You could use Template:Derived from in the source field but you still need a license that matches the source file. See an example at File:Altmer High Elf, Sweden, Baltic Sea.png. Don't worry about Fastily. He does delete many images and usually quickly to clear the backlogs. I think he believes it is better to shoot first and ask questions later. There is nothing wrong with that method as it does clear up copyvios very quickly. Just make sure you have a license tag on them at upload or within a few minutes. I usually just copy/paste the license from the source file straight to the derived work like I did with File:Altmer High Elf, Kiental, Germany.png. He made his own template and I added my license below.--Canoe1967 (talk) 17:30, 21 July 2013 (UTC)

If you're making extracted crops, the best way is to duplicate the existing metadata - copy and paste from the main image including details like the BL catalogue tag and license tag - and then link to the original in "other versions". Andrew Gray (talk) 19:13, 21 July 2013 (UTC)

To add to this, the part I'm mainly concerned with is keeping the {{Picturing Canada|...}} and {{British Library image|...}} template code and copyright numbers, as these will make sure it's correctly attributed and tracked. Changing the description/title won't be a problem (but keeping HS85-10-xxxxx in the title probably helps). Andrew Gray (talk) 19:33, 21 July 2013 (UTC)

I thought I had but all I got from User:Fastily was a snotty comment about making a mess; there was no deletion notice to try and resolve the problem, just a speedy deletion and now a snotty comment. WP:BITE on technical details was uncool. I was clear on the upload about it being from one of the HS85 series and even named the image; not good enough for him, he just deleted the thing without giving anyone a chance to fix whatever the problem was........discouraging re doing more of the same. He complains about being busy it's not like I'm not, too.....and when you ask for help and someone ignores that and deletes the contribution, WTF??Skookum1 (talk) 04:31, 22 July 2013 (UTC)

I think Fastily was brought to a drama board for de-sysopping over similar deletions. I think the conclusion was that he is a little harsh but kept his admin bit. Probably best to try and have proper licenses at time of upload and not be concerned with his motivations. You should be able to upload it again with the same file name and no further problems as long as it has a PD license.--Canoe1967 (talk) 16:14, 22 July 2013 (UTC)

I see his drama is what he thrives on, and apparently WP:CIVIL isn't part of his portfolio....I note there's a Spanish-language post complaining about his peremptory behaviour - the one you moved from his userpage to his talkpage. Deletionists are time-wasters if all they do is hit the delete button to fulfill themselves. This was obviously a crop of a public domain Commons image, it should have at least been given a chance to be re-uploaded. Yes, I can......but I still don't know where in the upload form to put in the license; I'll re-upload it in the "upload another version of this file" section, which is what I did with the image that's now on Camborne, British Columbia in Wikipedia......I see he's only been in the Commons since April 2013.......came here looking for more destructive things to do, sounds like to me. And yes, I responded in kind, but could have responded with much worse, as I'm sure you aware. I don't have time for snotty teenagers.Skookum1 (talk) 02:57, 23 July 2013 (UTC)

I don't use the upload wizard because of those limits. I use Special:Upload. If the correct license isn't listed then just pick a similar one and change it after upload. I use Commons:Commonist for bulk uploads and it can take any license or none. You need to paste with Ctr+v though because mouse copy/paste aren't written into Commonist yet. Btw, see if you think I have the correct city at File talk:Central British Columbia Series 7 (HS85-10-38102).jpg--Canoe1967 (talk) 03:41, 23 July 2013 (UTC)

mis-identified as being in Mission, BC

Please see File talk:From Mission Hill (HS85-10-36637).jpg and File:St. Mary's Indian Mission VPL 19946.jpg.Skookum1 (talk) 13:32, 6 March 2015 (UTC)