File talk:İsmet Paşa Mustafa Kemal Paşa ile konuşurken (1920).jpg

Angora or Ankara

@E4024:

In English prior to 1930 the place was known as "Angora". If the description is in English I think the name "Angora" should be noted. I do not know if the name was different in Turkish prior to 1923 (whether "Ankara" or "Angora" were considered separate names, or whether "Angora" is just another way of rendering "Ankara"), but I stand by my edit of the English description. WhisperToMe (talk) 21:45, 3 June 2020 (UTC)

• 1. Please do not open discussion pages with sudden reactions; keep calm and open discussion pages accordingly, with title etc. The discussion pages do not belong "entirely" to you or me. We can make use of "sections" only.

2. When you change someone's edit and have been reverted, kindly explain your position instead of interrogating who reverted you.

3. When you open a discussion do not monopolize it with who reverted you, remember that you intervened in someone else's contribution. First speak to them.

4. This is not a school, if you want to learn about Turkish culture and history it is not the correct place. Just to the opposite, many things about Turkish culture and history are being presented differently than what they are. Wikipedia and its sister projects are not a reliable source to learn from.

5. I reverted you from 2020. If we were in 1920 I would still revert you, probably using the Ottoman alphabet. (Some people of rural Ankara (province) use an "Angara" pronunciation, but they use g for almost every k in Turkish language. It has nothing to do with this discussion, indeed.) Again: We are in 2020. I hope next time you are not going to change Turkish history and declare a new capital or manipulate the name of "Ankara Government". E4024 (talk) 22:19, 3 June 2020 (UTC)

@E4024: To be honest with you, I do not consider my reaction bitey or something out of the ordinary. "Instant" reactions are to be expected on an online platform, and I feel I have explained my position calmly. If you like I can get a third opinion or other feedback on this. Note that it is normal to ping the person who reverted, start a dialog with that person, and see if you can come to an agreement. If not, one can bring in others.

When Jack reverts John's change, it is completely normal for John to ping Jack and start a discussion with Jack when John disagrees. This is the "bold - revert - discuss" (BRD) cycle.

My position: Descriptions in English should follow English conventions. In 1920 English speaking people called it "Angora", regardless of what name was used in Turkish, and I feel that should be acknowledged in the English description. Someone on the Commons used this analogy: on the 1940s St. Petersburg, Russia was called "Leningrad" and it would be inaccurate to refer to the 1940s city by its modern day name.

WhisperToMe (talk) 02:52, 4 June 2020 (UTC)

E4024, In my opinion your reaction is not appropriate. First of all according to English (en:Ankara) and German Wikipedia (de:Ankara; with a different source!) you are yourself not right: The official renaming to “Ankara” was only in 1930, i.e. about 10 years after this image was taken. If you insist on the modern name then add it in parentheses (something like “now Ankara”; edit: I did this myself just now and linked to enwiki — Speravir – 20:35, 5 June 2020 (UTC)), adding this may indeed be even better. Your points 2 and 3 are not valid at all – it is usual behaviour to ping people, as I did here, as well. In this case you has been the one who reverted an edit and this is disputed. Your points 4 and 5 are very rude for my taste, seems to me you want to make point. If you think the file description needs something in Ottoman Turkish than add it, but do not revert other information! — Speravir – 23:03, 4 June 2020 (UTC)

To follow up on some of these points:

1. If anything I would like to have descriptions in Ottoman Turkish. Use the language code "ota" to add it.

2. In general English-language sources began using modern Turkish names circa 1930: the U.S. State Department began using "Istanbul" in 1930. The source about Ankara being in use after 1930 on ENwiki is here.

3. I must add that the Wikimedia projects, Commons included, are there for an educational purpose. We are here to learn about culture and history.

WhisperToMe (talk) 23:13, 4 June 2020 (UTC)