File talk:Flag of the President of South Korea.svg

Color of the flag

This was previously discussed but I do not believe a proper resolution was reached, rather the flag was set to it's current colour merely because Shibo77 did not like the darker blue. They contradicted themselves by stating the flag should be the same blue as the national flag, which is significantly darker, and there are sourced which corroborate a darker shade of blue. Unless there is any significant reason to oppose the change, I would like to revert the file. This darker blue would not only make the flag consistent with the national flag, but other South Korean governmental flags as well. Fry1989 ^eh? 18:54, 27 April 2014 (UTC)

then what is this? Can you actually present the governmental sources for me? And here, what color can you see the presidential standard hanging in front of the presidential office? -- Shyoon1 (talk) 19:59, 25 July 2014 (UTC)

And what about the sources I have provided? I provided many and you ignored them. You don't care about anything that doesn't show it how you want it to be. Fry1989 ^eh? 20:15, 25 July 2014 (UTC)

Where? I keep asking and you never bring them out. I say clearly. Bring the sources you have so I could look at. -- Shyoon1 (talk) 20:21, 25 July 2014 (UTC)

I brought them many times!!! You ignored them, I posted this and this and I just posted six sources about the seal which you claimed is supposed to be the same colour as the flag. You are edit warring on this file despite warnings not to and after multiple users have reverted you. You could be blocked for this. You need to stop. Fry1989 ^eh? 20:26, 25 July 2014 (UTC)

Din't you ever look photographs I just brought? then what are they? That is seal. But in the case of standard, the flag is actually hanging in front of the presidential office. And you presented the picture with President Roh. He is the 16th president from 2003 to 2008. Which means although you would be corrected in 5 years ago, but not now. this picture clearly shows current President w:Park Geun-hye and his staff at the cabinet meeting. -- Shyoon1 (talk) 20:30, 25 July 2014 (UTC)

Of course I have but you didn't look at mine. You refused to acknowledge them the last time this matter was discussed, and you just said earlier today that the seal and the flag should be the same colour. Your Korean colleague Shibo77 also said that the flag should match the national flag. Both of you have admitted in one way or another that this flag should use the same dark blue as File:Flag of South Korea.svg, so why don't you stop edit warring before you get blocked. Unless you have an official source for a different colour, this file should match the national flag. Fry1989 ^eh? 20:34, 25 July 2014 (UTC)

Sorry, but I am afraid to tell that User:Shibo77 is Chinese. Bring the government sources first that the background color of presidential standard is actually dark blue. And as I brought farily recent photographs, I never saw any dark flag except official seal of the president. -- Shyoon1 (talk) 20:36, 25 July 2014 (UTC)

It doesn't matter, the two of you are the only users who complain about this file matching the national flag, yet both of you have admitted that it should. Fry1989 ^eh? 20:37, 25 July 2014 (UTC)

I said that although you are right in case of the official seal, but I never said that the color of presidential flag and blue color of national flag should be matched. Please stop making my arguments up. -- Shyoon1 (talk) 20:39, 25 July 2014 (UTC)

You claimed the seal and the flag should match, but the moment you got all those sources saying the seal is dark blue you made the excuse "ok the seal is dark, but the flag isn't until I say so". Now your are shown sources that the flag has also been dark blue and you ignore them. Shibo77 said that the this flag and the national flag should match. Yes, both of you have admitted in different ways that this flag should match the national flag. Until you have an official source that this flag is different from the national flag, this file should match the national flag. It is that simple. You have no official sources and you ignore the photos you don't like. Fry1989 ^eh? 20:49, 25 July 2014 (UTC)

That's before you presented the picture of presidential seal in recent. I looked and when current president is at the current conference, there is a presidential seal with the dark color, so I admit that the presidential seal's background color is dark. Shibo77 also said that the dark color one is not sure. And I keep telling you, where is government sources? Where is presidential archive? Stop blaming me and bring the actual source. Please. -- Shyoon1 (talk) 20:55, 25 July 2014 (UTC)

The exact same questions you ask me also apply to you. Where are your official sources that this flag does not use the same blue as all other South Korean flags? You have not provided one. Fry1989 ^eh? 20:57, 25 July 2014 (UTC)

Then where is it? You clearly mentioned government sources actually states that the background color of the presidential standard should be same blue as the blue one in national flag. But, sorry since you can't even present the government source you have it. Where are multiple government sources? did you ever bring to me seriously? There is an executive order, but this order never states the color should be same as all other South Korean flags. The order only states that the phoenix coat of arm should be golden, that's it. see this. -- Shyoon1 (talk) 21:02, 25 July 2014 (UTC)

Also, you have to remember that fabrics can appear brighter than they are under certain lighting conditions. Although it may appear light blue in the photograph, the fabric itself may be dark. If the fabric were light, it would appear to be much brighter than it actually is. Illegitimate Barrister 23:40, 25 July 2014 (UTC)

Well, I do believe Shyoon1 is correct. 1) There is no color rule on presidental flags. (If there is, please link me to the law page.) 2) Fry's photo is at least 10 years old, so there might be changes.— Revi_complaint? 00:14, 26 July 2014 (UTC)

The argument that the background color of the presidential flag should match the national flag is, apparently, based on the common use of the word '아청(achung)색', which is I guess some sort of deep blue. However, this argument is not valid. The idea that the blue of the Korean national flag uses achung is based on '일정케 한 국기양식'(1942)[1]. The presidential flag uses, as previously mentioned, achung as described in '대통령 표장에 관한 건'(1967). However, in 1997, Korean government redefined the blue of the national flag to be (x = 0.1556, y = 0.1354, Y = 6.5) in CIE color space, instead of achung, so the blue in the national flag is not necessarily achung any more [2]. Therefore, the claim that the two colors should match is not valid, thus it does not invalidate the presidential flag with different blue color. To my knowledge, there is no official documentation on the background color of the presidential flag. --10k (talk) 00:16, 26 July 2014 (UTC)

Is there a single reason to believe that the presidential flag should not match all other South Korean symbols including the national flag, the flags of the PM and Parliament, of the Army, of the Navy, AND of the presidential seal which is the exact same symbol except in seal form instead of a flag? I don't believe there is, and it should be the burden of those arguing against the reasonable assumption of uniformity to provide such proof. Currently there is none. Shyoon1 insisted that the flag and the seal should be the same, until they saw my original sources when I asked in the Graphic Lab for the seal to be created, now they're interestingly ignoring that and pretending that the seal and the flag shouldn't be the same even though they are the same symbol. Then in the previous discussion of this matter, a user named Shibo77 who also prefers the light blue strangely contradicted themselves by saying that the presidential flag and the national flag should be the same. Does anybody have anything other than a handful of photos which could simply be explained away as poor fabrication, to suggest the presidential standard stands alone in a unique blue? If so, I have yet to see it. Fry1989 ^eh? 02:03, 26 July 2014 (UTC)

Then, why should they match? Simply Korean Government might decided to use different colour. And did you read 10k's comment? They decided to use light blue for president. — Revi_complaint? 02:35, 26 July 2014 (UTC)

For the sake of argument, let's say it is light blue. However, which exact shade would it be (RGB or PMS)? Illegitimate Barrister 02:40, 26 July 2014 (UTC)

Exact RGB/PMS shade is not published. However, old version matches current presidental standards which is being used now. — Revi_complaint? 03:02, 26 July 2014 (UTC)

According to this source (law.go.kr, operated by Government of Republic of Korea.), it mentions the background color of the presidential flag is 아청색(雅靑色). As translated to Korean, this means "light blue." Even the source from the ministry states the background color is light blue, but why Fry1989 still argue that the color should be dark blue instead of light blue? If there is no clue that dark blue is correct for 24 hours, I will revert. — Revi_complaint? 05:32, 26 July 2014 (UTC)

The "blue" colors of Republic of Korea within and among president flag, government's flag, navy flag, and national flag are not same. The only one which fixed color value by law is national flag, and another are used by customarily usage. Also 아청색(雅靑色) does not mean exactly matching dark blue in ROK national flag. As like above user's saying, The law of Republic of Korea call its color as just "파랑색"(blue). So, I think, it is better to follow Korean government's usage instead to argue without correct reference. -- Jjw (talk) 02:46, 26 July 2014 (UTC)

The simplest answer is that there is every reason to match the two flags when all the other flags from the army to the navy to the parliament all use the exact same blue. It makes no sense for the presidential standard to stand out like a sore thumb without some sort of official source to prove that it is supposed to. Now do any of you have an official source? I didn't think so. And Hym411, if you do revert the file, I will request it be protected. Fry1989 ^eh? 06:12, 26 July 2014 (UTC)

@Fry1989: I said I will revert if there is no oppose. Also, did you ever see my link? I provided governmental offical source saying it is supposed to be light blue. Also they match does not mean this should matct, see Jjw's comment. — Revi_complaint? 06:25, 26 July 2014 (UTC)

I've protected the page for 3 months, or until consensus regarding the flag's color is attained. In the meantime, please refrain from making any reverts/changes. Thanks, FASTILY 06:40, 26 July 2014 (UTC)

I agree with Revi's opinion. I think Revi's evidence that 아청색 means the light blue is more proper. Despite of Revi's evidence, why Fry1989 argues the dark blue is a right background color of this flag?--콩가루 (talk) 07:01, 26 July 2014 (UTC)

light blue is right. How can that flag be seen as dark blue? So unsound. ØSalamander (Talk / Contributions) 03:31, 27 July 2014 (UTC)

And I have photos of it dark too. Photos alone are not the answer. Fry1989 ^eh? 03:36, 27 July 2014 (UTC)

Roh Moo Hyun was president 10 years ago, so it should be considered outdated. — Revi_complaint? 03:48, 27 July 2014 (UTC)

No, I don't accept that. Whenever I provide something that doesn't fit with your explanation, you just excuse it away as outdated. Insufficient. Fry1989 ^eh? 04:01, 27 July 2014 (UTC)

This photo of George W. Bush with the American flag is from 12 years ago. Does that mean the U.S. flag is outdated? Illegitimate Barrister 06:37, 27 July 2014 (UTC)

This official link describes the Korean government flag, and I think it will be useful to conclude this debate. It states that the background of the government flag should be 'achung', as was used in 대통령 표장에 관한 건(1967) for the presidential flag. You can download an image file of the official government flag (click “정부기 이미지 DOWN"). I suggest everyone download and open the official jpg file of the government flag, which should use exactly the same background color as the presidential flag. The color matches neither of the two versions under dispute, but to my impression it is closer to the color of shyoon's. --10k (talk) 08:07, 27 July 2014 (UTC)

However, even if this official jpg file might settle down this dispute, the ᅟRGB definition of achung color is still open. There is an interpretaion of achung by the Korean National Art Museum, but there is no law that enfoces the Korea Ministry of Administration to adopt it. If the next president wants to use a different version of blue for achung, s/he can do it without breaking the law, and then the same debate will occur in this page over and over. The best resolution will be, I believe, that this .svg file should be updated as frequently as the Korean government official page does. I see no way other than this to avoid unproductive debates. --10k (talk) 08:24, 27 July 2014 (UTC)

Here I bring you all, the link to 정부의전편람(Governmental Ceremony Manual of the Republic of Korea). You can also download it clicking '정부의전편람.exe' and it's made by Ministry of Security and Public Administration of the country. It's kind of PDF file or book program(about 95.3MB). It's a little bit heavy to download, so you can see a screenshot of one page of the book. The document also mentions the background color of Government flag should be '아청색' and it looks same with the Presidentiol Emblem's. So the color is little bit differ from Shyoon1's upload, but it's sufficiently differ from Fry1989's current version. I recommend the color to be changed anyway. --Naturehead (talk) 11:53, 27 July 2014 (UTC)

I am Germantower from Korean Wikipedia's WikiProject Korean admnistration system. I watched the presidential flag of Sourh Korea carefully. As this debate became controversial, I couldn't remain silent and joined this discussion. As Naturehead, another Korean user, already took a picture of manual of South Korean ministry of Safety and Administration, it was confirmed that the presidential flag actually uses neither navy blue or sky blue. It was a slightly light blue. Since the manual shows the specimen of the flag, the color which Fry1989 is very different than the original flag and it should be changed as quick as possible. I am so curious why Fry1989 is so confident even though he can't even bring single governmental source. :( -- Germantower (talk) 19:09, 28 July 2014 (UTC)

And I am curious as to why I'm the only one that has to do so. The same demand that I bring government sources, I have asked of others, and they were unable to as well until now. I do not understand why only I am required to bring them forward. That doesn't mean I did not try, but it does mean I was unable to find any. Considering until this discussion reached this point, the only sources anyone had (including myself, Shibo77 and Shyoon1) were inconclusive photographs, perhaps you would be better served in not attacking me and focussing on a resolution instead. The source shown here that the governmental flags (may) use neither the light or dark blue but some sort of intermediate colour was not provided by any users until two days ago. Before that, NOBODY had any official sources, so how about you go after Shyoon1 and Salamander724 and Hym411 who also did not have any government sources and only had photos but were just as confident they are right as well! Fry1989 ^eh? 20:06, 29 July 2014 (UTC)

Even though none provided any source, but like Shyoon1 did, Fry 1989 also conducted the edit war. And you give all blame to all other uses, but actually it's not. Right now, most users - at least users you have mentioned - linked and uploaded a picture or source that your argument is not right. However, Fry1989 argues aggressively that the flag's color should be remained as navy blue, but he never provided any written source. When he re-uploaded, he mentioned that "State source infers that all governmental flags be consistent with the national flag." But, where it is? Fry1989 did not even bring single source and he still argues that he cannot admit these sources. In order to ensure your argument is right, at least bring a written source from the Korean government just like 10k and Naturehead did. -- Germantower (talk) 01:05, 30 July 2014 (UTC)

Furthermore, I already asked public affairs services of South Korean Ministry of Safety and Public Administration (MOSPA) about the background color of presidential flag and I will scan and upload the whole reply when I get any answer from MOSPA. It seems like you don't even trust the governmental source from South Korean Government, so in order to make you believe and admit, I will upload the original text without any translation. So, after that Korean users in this discussion will translate and debate this matter again. Although I am not sure what you will say after I post the reply from South Korean MOSPA. -- Germantower (talk) 01:09, 30 July 2014 (UTC)

I did no such thing, I reverted the file twice, whereas Shyoon1 4 reverted 5 times in a matter of 3 days, they were edit warring after multiple users reverted their change. Under Commons policy, when multiple users revert your change, you are supposed to stop reverting and discuss the matter which they refused to do. It appears you're only here to place blame on me and make excuses for Shyoon1 and the others who you agree with. Obviously you're not here to actually discuss the matter based on the facts or you would recognize that nobody had any official sources until 2 days ago, so what you say doesn't matter. You talk about things you don't even understand, accusing me of not using official sources but being surprisingly silent when other users did the exact same. You're only here for one reason and it's very transparent. Fry1989 ^eh? 01:36, 30 July 2014 (UTC)

I understand Wikimedia Project is not a democracy, but as what you said, people who suppose Shyoon1 are larger than you. And you clearly mentioned that state sources inform that navy blue should be the background color. Is this a rule of Commons that you are not required to bring out source since no one could bring any? And I am from WikiProject administration of Korean Wikipedia, so I am interesting of this matter. What you do is personal attack, indeed just like Shyoon1 did. And lastly, the consensus has been built. the official source from MOSPA was provided and I hope you saw it. this is Commons, the free image repository, this place is not for you only. -- Germantower (talk) 05:15, 30 July 2014 (UTC)

Oh, I forgot that, you can ask the website of Korean government that the color of presidential flag is right or wrong. Did you ever try your best to research or bring out the official source from the government? I think you never tried to find any source and you simply want to change the color you like. -- Germantower (talk) 05:21, 30 July 2014 (UTC)

@Fry1989: I, (probably) like many of those who are here, am not interested in who is to blame. So, as you mentioned, now there are documentations on the color from the governmental sources. Please clarify whether you agree to update the file according to the governmental documentations, or you insist that the quality of the source has to meet your standard. I, and also probably all other here, want to finish this unconstructive debate and take this talk page out of the watch list. --10k (talk) 06:53, 30 July 2014 (UTC)

I agree that this flag should be adjusted to #0045a4, which is the specification on this source. The seal and other governmental flags should also be adjusted to match. Fry1989 ^eh? 01:28, 31 July 2014 (UTC)

 Support recolor to #0045a4. Illegitimate Barrister 09:05, 31 July 2014 (UTC)

Thank you for the comments. It is, however, a little bit tricky, because the download image file at the official down link contains the background in a different color. (The zip file contains the flag image in two formats, and one is jpg.) I think #0045a4 you suggested is the color in the banner of the website, and the background color in the download link is #1164b2 if my dec-to-hex was correct. I agree it is non-sense to have the banner image and the download image in different colors, but if we have to pick one, I think choosing the download image would suit the purpose better. What do you think? --10k (talk) 16:34, 31 July 2014 (UTC)

The problem with that colour is it appears faded, especially when applied to the presidential standard. Fry1989 ^eh? 18:58, 31 July 2014 (UTC)

I don't get what you mean---is it a problem that it appears faded? Or, could you rephrase your point? --10k (talk) 23:46, 31 July 2014 (UTC)

When applying #1164b2 to the presidential standard, the colour appears faded or washed out. It's not a problem on the other flag but with the gold phoenixes on the presidential standard it is very pronounced. Conversions usually get botched like this, but I think it would be better to use #0045a4 which is the direct copy of the colour use on the website. Fry1989 ^eh? 01:09, 1 August 2014 (UTC)

#0045a4 appears to be the best choice here. Illegitimate Barrister 10:28, 1 August 2014 (UTC)

If blending with gold is the only concern, I think modifying the gold, than modifying the blue (#1164b2), better fits the official instruction, as RGB for gold is more variable than blue, particularly under different lighting conditions. Also, as you pointed out earlier, there is no reason for the presidential flag to have a different background color than the background color of the official government flag image file. If you have a suggestion for the RGB value of the golden phoenix, it will be good. Otherwise, I guess other contributors might be able to come up with a suitable gold color themselves. --10k (talk) 19:26, 1 August 2014 (UTC)

I am back. According to the ceremonial manual of South Korean Ministry of Safety and Public Administration, this screenshot from Naturehead answers everything. Although Fry1989 argues the governmental flag from the website, but this screenshot clearly shows the sample of presidential standard. Which one should be used as a most trustworthy source for the flag? And I picked color from the screenshot and the result is #006bb1. So, the background color of presidential standard should be changed to #006bb1 and maybe the golden color can be revised to darker one. -- Shyoon1 (talk) 06:16, 2 August 2014 (UTC)

That screenshot does not answer everything, we now have now have 3 different shades of blue to choose from, from three different official government sources. I agree with 10k that we should use the blue directly encoded in the download file of this source. I have uploaded the file as File:Temp SK flag.svg. Fry1989 ^eh? 18:19, 3 August 2014 (UTC)

Please stop to change the color you like. The screenshot even shows the sample of presidential flag, so which one is most reliable? Do not ignore that screenshot. That one only applies to the government flag. Also, you continuously argue that all presidential flag, flag of government, and flag of prime minister should use the same background color, but there is no clause mentioned in the Korean law or code. So you have no good reason to apply same color to all public flags of South Korea. -- Shyoon1 (talk) 18:46, 3 August 2014 (UTC)

Did you read anything I said? We have three official sources and they are not consistent. Therefore it is best to use the blue that is encoded in the official download. Do you have any sources to the contrary, or are you just going to keep on bitching about things that don't matter anymore? Fry1989 ^eh? 19:53, 3 August 2014 (UTC)

At least I brought the source unlike you who didn't bring any although you always argue you have it. Sample from the manual is most trustworthy because it clearly shows the sample. Since any official sources are not consistent, there is no reason to use that as only official source. You just want to change the color you like, nothing else. Bitching? thank you for personal attack. -- Shyoon1 (talk) 20:02, 3 August 2014 (UTC)

If I wanted the colour I liked, I would still support the dark blue that this file is currently protected as. I wouldn't be willing to compromise, which you are proving you are unable to do. Also "bitching" is common English lexicon for complaining without any merit, it's not a personal attack, unlike when you called Fastily a racist. The only user who has made any personal attacks during this matter has been you. Fry1989 ^eh? 20:43, 3 August 2014 (UTC)

It is personal attack. If someone is female user, this is nothing more than personal attack and I still feel offended. Racist is not a bad word unlike what you did say to me. Whatever, this is definitely swearing. There it is. You still want to defend your favorite color which has no single reference. -- Shyoon1 (talk) 21:19, 3 August 2014 (UTC)

You can pretend it is all you want, but it's not, and it's not my fault you don't understand the English language well enough to know that it's a common term for those who complain about something without any merit to their complaint. Calling another user a racist is a personal attack however, and that is why your block went from 3 days to an entire week. You're too fixated on fighting to even pay attention to anything else I say, or you would have noticed that I am trying to compromise and fix this flag to a lighter shade of blue that is sourced by 10k who you supposedly trust except for when I support them as well. Instead, you keep accusing me of still trying to defend the darker blue that this file is protected as, which I am not doing. You don't care about anything except fighting. Fry1989 ^eh? 21:47, 3 August 2014 (UTC)

So, This is why you brought the wrong reference to support yourself? Whatever, the word is highly inappropriate and if I feel offended, it is offended. Use the right one which includes the sample, not your favorite one. -- Shyoon1 (talk) 02:41, 4 August 2014 (UTC)

Several years later I see that you are still at it Fry1989. Like Shyoon1 said, I am Chinese not Korean. For the last time, I did not say that the presidential standard is the same shade of blue as the national flag. I said the exact opposite. Please read other people's comments carefully before jumping to conclusion. The rest I don't want to repeat, they are at User_talk:Fry1989/Archive_1#Regarding_File:Presidential_Standard_of_the_Republic_of_Korea.svg. I don't know what magic trick you did to this file, but this file was uploaded far earlier than 2014, and it was not by you. If the Commons:OVERWRITE policy was the only reason that Shyoon1 was blocked, that is incorrect. The original file uploaded by User:Nudimmud was the lighter shade of blue. ADMINS: Please restore the older versions of this file prior to Fry1989's upload in 2014. --Shibo77 06:48, 5 September 2014 (UTC)

Extended content

Blocking shyoon1 @Fry1989: I want to ask you, what happened to shyoon1? as I see above he was one who participated in this discussion aggressively it seems like someone might blocked shyoon1? -- Germantower (talk) 05:19, 1 August 2014 (UTC) I just saw shyoon1's talk page and he was blocked, but it is strange that no one noticed the administrator's noticeboard to block or regulate shyoon1's action. What is this? According to you, as majority determines, everyone should follow because that is the consensus, so is it because of that? It seems like you want to defend your argument and blocked your opponent and it is very unfair and one-sided. this is an illegal block and goes against the democracy what you said. I am very aware that @Fastily: , who blocked shyoon1, thinks Wikimedia Commons is for themselves, not for everyone. -- Germantower (talk) 05:25, 1 August 2014 (UTC) In this situation when both sides clash head, the authority of administrator should be used much more neutrally and carefully. without saying second block of shyoon1, but the first block of shyoon1 is very biased and the process of block was very problematic indeed. If Fastily did like this in other place such as Korean Wikipedia, this would be a very good reason of de-adminship. I think Commons is no different than other projects, so I am very concerned that Fastily always use the adminship like this without knowing basic rule and policy? -- Germantower (talk) 05:29, 1 August 2014 (UTC) Please stick to improve the flag, the blocks were more than justified. What should be done is to restore the page history minus the edit-warring uploads.--Denniss (talk) 06:16, 1 August 2014 (UTC) The reasons for Shyoon1's block is documented and agreed upon on a separate discussion, if you do not like it you may voice your opinion there but this page is for improving this file based on consensus and to prevent further edit warring. Accusing me here of trying to silence Shyoon1 is absolutely inappropriate. If you do not have an opinion on the colours presented above, you should remain silent. Fry1989 eh? 06:59, 1 August 2014 (UTC) I Agree with Denniss. I suggest make a separate sub-section if a conversation on topics other than the color of the flag is desired. --10k (talk) 16:07, 1 August 2014 (UTC)

Korean translation

From my talk page ^{(perma link)}, regarding translation of :[3]

---

== In reply to your inquiry ==

Hi, I found myself lucky that I logged on to my account just at the right time, Haha. Okay, let me tell you about the colors there. You will notice that the first and the second picture are the basically the same, just the second one is a more zoomed-in version. Since it is a legal document, it contains some hanja and the colors are also described by it. Here we go,

1. In the first picture, at the top left corner where it says 銀色(은색), means Silver. This word is also there at the bottom.
2. Since it's the same one, let's go to the second picture. In the left, the word 雅靑色(아청색) is written vertically, however this word with this hanja does not exist in any of Korean dictionary. I think this supposed to mean 鴉靑色(아청색), which Korean dictionary describes as: darker than blue, but lighter than navy blue. I think this picture will help you to get some idea.
3. In the same picture, you can see 金色(금색) in the middle bottom and top right corner. This is easy, this means Gold.

If you have further questions, feel free to ask me. :) Have a great day. - Nike787 (talk) 06:17, 28 July 2014 (UTC)

---

--Hedwig in Washington ^(mail?) 22:04, 28 July 2014 (UTC)

Yes, 鴉靑色(아청색) is described as "darker than blue...". but 雅靑色(아청색) is slightly differ from it. Even though 雅靑色 is not in the Korean dictionary, it just means the current usage frequency of the word is very low. 雅(아) means "clean, pure". and furthermore, I have showed you all that the government is officially using brighter color than this file. Please refer to a screenshot of the Ceremony Manual of the Government of Repubic of Korea and Government flag which is using same color(아청색) as the Presidential Flag were already mentioned above. --Naturehead (talk) 12:42, 29 July 2014 (UTC)

As an original uploader of the file, I don't understand why I haven't been noticed about this edit war.

The original presidential decree (no, the flag is not regulated by the law) does not specify the exact shades of the color in any form, but merely states the approximate color in korean words. Ambiguity arises because 鴉靑色 (lit. crow-blue) does normally imply darker shades of blue, in every historical and current photographic sources, however, you can clearly see that the actual color is LIGHTER than the blue shade (the lower part) of Taeguk (the Yin and Yang symbol) on the National Flag. Thus, the current version according to User:Fry1989, which the blue shade is based on the color of File:Flag of South Korea.svg, is WRONG.

I hope this comment can conclude this meaningless debate.

--Nudimmud (talk) 16:34, 3 August 2014 (UTC)

Comment on the sources above, not on your indignation that you weren't notified. Fry1989 ^eh? 17:59, 3 August 2014 (UTC)

One thing, I am not indignant, nor offended. I am just curious about for what reason you didn't notified and talked me, the original uploader, regarding the color since I have chosen that color for a deliberate reason. Plus I was also curious for what reasons the original file history is deleted. (Yes I have read about that in your comment.) Second, the sources you provided are the plaque on the Presidential Airplane or the plate of the Presidential Vehicle, not the FLAG. If you read Korean, please refer tothe link that I've given, and you will know that the decree specifies the plaque/plate and the flag separately. There are many plaques and plates with darker black shades, but for the flags, none. All available flags consistently indicates that the blue field of the Presidential Standard is lighter, with slightly greenish blue shade. --Nudimmud (talk) 18:17, 3 August 2014 (UTC)

The sources I provided are the flag, just in plaque form, they are the exact same symbol. This nitpicking "oh they're too old" or "oh those are plaques, not real flags made of fabric" will go nowhere, we are already beyond using photos for our sources. Fry1989 ^eh? 18:21, 3 August 2014 (UTC)

Remind that almost everyone in this talk page argued that the current version with very dark blue is simply wrong. -- Shyoon1 (talk) 18:56, 3 August 2014 (UTC)

Proposed resolution.

File:Temp SK flag.svg

I propose we change this file to match the colours of File:Temp SK flag.svg. This file uses the same gold as the original, but matches the blue that is encoded in the download from this source. This source supports the theory that the government flag and the presidential flag use the same blue. Fry1989 ^eh? 19:56, 3 August 2014 (UTC)

Illegitimate Barrister, 10k, Hym411, Naturehead, please all !vote below. Fry1989 ^eh? 20:03, 3 August 2014 (UTC)

To prevent misunderstanding, could you please explicitly state the approximate RGB or Hexadecimal values of the shades of gold and blue to which you wish to change? Thank you! --Shibo77 07:29, 5 September 2014 (UTC)

To all voters: There is currently a discrepancy between the temporary version uploaded by Fry1989 and what his introductory words actually say. Read below for more details. --Shibo77 05:49, 6 September 2014 (UTC)

For this vote, the proposed shade of blue is #005BA6, while other elements of the Presidential Standard remain the same. The example can be seen at the right. Please vote and voice your opinions on this resolution! --Shibo77 05:56, 8 September 2014 (UTC)

Fry, I think we have a consensus based on the votes below, shall we request protected change by an admin and/or unprotection? --Shibo77 08:26, 9 September 2014 (UTC)

Yes I support an unprotection request and we can upload the change. Fry1989 ^eh? 16:12, 9 September 2014 (UTC)

I requested unprotection at Special:Diff/134246646. — Revi_complaint? 18:37, 9 September 2014 (UTC)

In favor

•  Support Fry1989 ^eh? 19:56, 3 August 2014 (UTC)
•  Support, absolutely and wholeheartedly. Illegitimate Barrister 02:25, 4 August 2014 (UTC)
•  Support, Great compromised shade #005BA6 based on the sources we have. Thank you! --Shibo77 05:56, 8 September 2014 (UTC)
•  Support This looks better than old one. — Revi_complaint? 15:21, 8 September 2014 (UTC)
•  Support much better than dark blue and regular blue one. -- Shyoon1 (talk) 22:09, 8 September 2014 (UTC)

Against

 Oppose Definitely not. Use the color from sample of presidential flag. -- Shyoon1 (talk) 20:01, 3 August 2014 (UTC)

Your own source shows that the two flags match. That means that the official downloadable file from the South Korean Government should be used as the standard template. Fry1989 ^eh? 20:04, 3 August 2014 (UTC)

What about yout source? your source is from the government flag, so you also argue that the presidential flag and governmental flag should use the same color. Don't blame me about this. -- Shyoon1 (talk) 20:05, 3 August 2014 (UTC)

The source was provided by 10k and it has an official EPS file from the Government for download by anybody. Your source shows that the two flags should match. You're contradicting yourself! You care so much about proving they don't match the same dark blue that you're ignnoring your own source that they do match with a lighter blue, which is the blue that was encoded in the download file. After the presidential standard is changed, the other government flags will be changed too. The sources all prove they do match. You just oppose this because I support it, you don't care about the truth. Fry1989 ^eh? 20:09, 3 August 2014 (UTC)

My source is also from the ceremonial manual of South Korean Ministry of Safety and Public Administration. This is also government source. Meanwhile, your source never mentions that the presidential flag should follow your color exactly. And that manual, too can be downloaded by anybody. -- Shyoon1 (talk) 20:23, 3 August 2014 (UTC)

It doesn't have to, yours does! Your source proves they are supposed to match. Your manual does not contain officially encoded and constructed files in the EPS format so it's not reliable. It's also blurry so it can't be trusted as an official copy of the proper colour. Only official files can be trusted and we have one. Fry1989 ^eh? 20:40, 3 August 2014 (UTC)

You also cited from the page of the governmental flag. Then, isn't it supposed to match, either? No. And what about your source? Only officially encoded the governmental flag, not presidential flag. This is making sure that you just like to change the color you like. You only seek justification of your action. -- Shyoon1 (talk) 21:17, 3 August 2014 (UTC)

I am trying to compromise, something you are obviously incapable of doing. 10k's source provides an EPS file that was constructed by the South Korean Government, and your own source proves that both flags are supposed to be the same. I don't think you even understand what you are saying, because you are arguing that they shouldn't match but that they should match at the same time. You just want to fight for the sake of fighting. Fry1989 ^eh? 21:42, 3 August 2014 (UTC)

You are not seeking compromise at all. You ignored the screenshot from Naturehead, a direct evidence of presidential flag. You are only one who argue that the presidential flag should use the color of governmental flag. Sorry but your opinion has no legal reference from the South Korean government. Use the direct one, please. -- Shyoon1 (talk) 21:45, 3 August 2014 (UTC)

If I wasn't trying to compromise, I would still prefer the darker blue that this file is still protected as, I wouldn't be supporting the file being changed to a different source. You are a complete waste of time trying to explain anything to. Fry1989 ^eh? 21:48, 3 August 2014 (UTC)

Same here, Use the lighter blue is the best solution. Other users and I already posted many sources either photographs and written sources. And none of your favorite sources describe how the presidential flag look like, so this screenshot from Naturehead is still the best and wisest choice. -- Shyoon1 (talk) 21:53, 3 August 2014 (UTC)

 Comment. Voting is irrelevant her. you have to reach consensus. If there is no consensus we have to restore the file back to the uploader latest version. Other users can made new files and convince wikipedia to accept there version. Geagea (talk) 01:50, 4 August 2014 (UTC)

Agree with this. This is very one-sided. -- Shyoon1 (talk) 02:39, 4 August 2014 (UTC)

A consensus is exactly what is trying to be reached, and the only way that can be reached is by !voting. Majority wins, that's how Requests for Comments work, that's how Deletion Requests work, that's how Dispute Rsolutions work, they all work by majority consensus. Trying to invalidate that consensus because you don't like the result is pretty sad. There are many users involved in this discussion, they may !vote as they please, they are not compelled to do so in one direction or another which is the only time such discussions are invalidated. So unless Geagea has some evidence of vote rigging, this proposal shall continue and the resulting consensus will no doubt be effected. Fry1989 ^eh? 02:44, 4 August 2014 (UTC)

You think 2:1 can represent the consensus? the candidate is only your picture. This is not voting. -- Shyoon1 (talk) 02:47, 4 August 2014 (UTC)

Where did I say 2 against 1 was a consensus? I never said that. I am awaiting all users in this discussion to make their decision. Fry1989 ^eh? 02:51, 4 August 2014 (UTC)

And the biggest problem of your proposal is there is no clause mentioned that the presidential flag and governmental flag should use the same color. Where did you obtain that kind of source? Are you making up the source again just like the you argued with your "state source"? -- Shyoon1 (talk) 20:45, 4 August 2014 (UTC)

If I have told you once, I have told you 100 times, YOUR SOURCE proves that the two flags are supposed to match! YOURS DOES! However, we can not use your source to determine the right shade of blue because your source is pixelated. 10k's source is not pixelated, they have a official EPS image, which is why we should use it. If you can't understand that, there is no further point in trying to explain anything to you. You are being wilfully ignorant and obstinate simply because I support 10k's source. Had I been opposed to it, I have no doubt you would support them. Any further discussion with you is a complete waste of everybody's time, so i will await a consensus on my proposal. Do not expect any further replies from me, I've had it. Fry1989 ^eh? 21:19, 4 August 2014 (UTC)

You also argue that your color should match both governmental and presidential flag. As I told you, do not attack with that one. Well, you already said a swear to me, so I do not expect anything from you. -- Shyoon1 (talk) 21:55, 4 August 2014 (UTC)

 Oppose It's still too dark. — Revi_complaint? 11:23, 6 August 2014 (UTC)

That opinion is based on what? This is the blue that was encoded in the file provided by 10k, it was not my choice but it is the best choice. Fry1989 ^eh? 18:17, 6 August 2014 (UTC)

It is not best choice at all, just your choice. -- Shyoon1 (talk) 21:20, 6 August 2014 (UTC)

Wrong, it is 10k's choice, which I support because it is the only logical one to choose. Your source is pixelated, it is not the same colour all over the same flag which means that if you pick the colour from one corner of your image and from a different corner, they won't be the same colour. Why don't you understand that???? 10k's source is the only source that is consistent. Fry1989 ^eh? 01:24, 7 August 2014 (UTC)

You are wrong. Naturehead's one is logical as well. Just like me, you also want to apply that blue color to both presidential and governmental flags. I already told you like more than 50 times, so do not avoid it. -- Shyoon1 (talk) 02:15, 7 August 2014 (UTC)

Everyone can see that this source is pixelated and therefore can not be converted onto this file. If you choose to ignore that and keep pushing your pipe dream that it's not, that's up to you. Fry1989 ^eh? 02:24, 7 August 2014 (UTC)

Using same color as governmental and presidential flag is also your pipe dream. The problem is, your argument does not have any legal background. -- Shyoon1 (talk) 18:04, 7 August 2014 (UTC)

And don't try to pick the color from right next to pheonix arms. -- Shyoon1 (talk) 18:07, 7 August 2014 (UTC)

It doesn't matter where you pick the colour from, the entire image is pixelated, it is inherently inconsistent and can not provide an accurate colour. Fry1989 ^eh? 18:31, 7 August 2014 (UTC)

The picture is a heavily-compressed JPEG. Even without image compression artifacts, saving a non-photographic image as a JPEG can dull colors somewhat. Illegitimate Barrister 19:34, 7 August 2014 (UTC)

I am seriously concerned that these people who are in favor of that dark blue ever saw other pictures and sources. Even the current president uses the light blue one and there is very trustworthy source that you always ignore. If you cannot believe it, then download the file and look up page 7. -- Shyoon1 (talk) 21:55, 7 August 2014 (UTC)

Lastly, I wonder you two ever tried to pick the color from Naturehead's source. I admit it is compressed, but in this page, if you try to pick the color from the corner of the flag, I get #006bb1. If you move to the next upper corner of sample, I also get #006bb1. I also get the same color from the sample other than nearby the pheonix arms. So, does it really related it is highly-compressed or what not? Even I can get all same colors from all four corners of sample flag? As I always told you, do not ignore the source. -- Shyoon1 (talk) 00:13, 8 August 2014 (UTC)

You have to make file more bright. Still this and temp file does not match. — Revi_complaint? 07:27, 9 August 2014 (UTC)

I don't have to do anything, and if you two can not understand why that file is unsuitable that is your problem. Fry1989 ^eh? 07:45, 9 August 2014 (UTC)

Two images are not matching, and it is your responsibility to make it match since you proposed it. You have to check your monitor if you don't notice the difference. — Revi_complaint? 07:51, 9 August 2014 (UTC)

You have one reliable source with exact color specification but you insist on original research by using this pixelated source image? Plus modifiying brightness to falsify colors even more? --Denniss (talk) 08:37, 9 August 2014 (UTC)

 Oppose Comment, there was a discussion before and I repeatedly said that the shade of the blue on the presidential standard does not match that of the national flag. Nor the flag of the national assembly. By the way, I don't know what Fry1989 did to this file, but this file was originally uploaded much earlier than 2014, and it was by User:Nudimmud (with the lighter shading). NOTE TO ADMINISTRATORS: Before we proceed with this discussion. Is there a way to restore the original file and talk page with the original discussion? At the moment, the shading is wrong, and with the original file and discussion deleted, the argument seems lopsided. Without the original file and talk-page discussions, Fry1989 is saying that I and Shyoon1 were the only ones who favored the lighter shade of blue, when in fact the original file was of the lighter shade of blue. --Shibo77 06:50, 5 September 2014 (UTC)

I didn't do anything. It's obvious you also have not read any of the sources provided and only came here to support Shyoon1 as a friend and as a favpur, because you aren't even paying attention to the fact that Shyoon1's source proves that this flag and the flag of the national assembly do match and that 10k has provided an official source for the shade of blue that should be used. The two of you care ONLY about opposing me and not about sources or facts. File:Temp SK flag.svg is the ONLY image that is sourced, and all you can whine is "it's too dark, I don't like it", which are baseless opinions. You have no counter sources, you have no sources at all, you don't care about the truth or resolving this dispute. Fry1989 ^eh? 15:38, 5 September 2014 (UTC)

Relax, (I don't understand why you are always so aggressive). I have revised my vote to neutral for the moment because I think the lighter blue color here is more acceptable (as it differs from the dark blue of the national flag, which was my original complaint against the dark blue shade). I was confused by your introduction to the vote, which is why I asked for the RGB or Hex values. I came here from a google search for my name on Wikimedia Commons as someone on my home wiki asked me to amend a file which I thought was not mine, and you mentioned my name multiple times above claiming that I said the shade of blue of the presidential standard should match that of the national flag (which again, I have never ever said). Anyways, please assume good faith. Do you know why the older versions of this file along with the old talk page discussions have been deleted? There are discussions relevant to our new discussion here (not to mention the file licensing still has User:Nudimmud as the uploader along with his older license). Despite what you may think, I saw the above discussion regarding the presidential standard (#006BB1) (as you claim been proven) to have the same shade of blue as the Governmental Flag (#0064AC) (which I disagree, even from the grainy jpeg you can tell that the Governmental Flag is slightly darker by its RGB values). But I was hoping to reserve judgement until previous discussions and older versions of this file are restored first (as of right now, deleting older discussions, and then referring to these deleted older discussions and versions is simply bad procedure). Anyways this file seems better to me as it handles my complaint of the current dark blue of this file (#003478) being the same as that of the blue on the National Flag (#003478). However, I do not agree that it is proven that the Governmental Flag has the same shade of blue as the Presidential Standard from the jpeg alone (unless there is explicit wording in that document supporting this, as I can not read Korean. From Google Translate, there does not seem to be any mention of the Presidential Standard in that MOSPA law) At the moment, to assume this from the jpeg and moreover change the shade of the Presidential Standard based on the law for the Governmental Flag is needless WP:SYNTHESIS and WP:OR, which is something I'm sure we'd all prefer to do without. In other words, why have you chosen not to use the even lighter blue here (#006BB1) and instead opt to use the National Assembly Standard colours? (Only because of jpeg artefacts?) The source for the lighter blue shade for the Presidential Standard (not the same as the National Flag), was provided in the original discussion (on your talk page as well as in older deleted discussions) as being based on photos and videos on YouTube from the Cheongwadae depicting the Presidential Standard beside the National Flag (for example). Unfortunately, I haven't yet found one with the Presidential Standard and the Governmental Flag side-by-side for comparison. I would still like to have the older versions of this file and older discussions on this talk page undeleted. Any idea why it was deleted in the first place? --Shibo77 02:00, 6 September 2014 (UTC)

Don't call me aggressive when you use accusatory statements like "I don't know what Fry did...". I've shown willingness to compromise and I have backed a source by another user who originally came here in support of Shyoon1. I am not aware of any previous discussions on this page having been deleted, but the previous revisions were deleted after repetitive edit warring. Neither are too relevant to this discussion, as the sources provided all diverge from either previous fought-over shades. Fry1989 ^eh? 03:09, 6 September 2014 (UTC)

[[:File:Temp SK flag actual.svg|thumb|Actual Version Based on Fry1989's intrduction to this vote (Made by Shibo77) compare with below]] [[:File:Temp SK flag.svg|thumb|Fry1989's Version]]

Okay, I am very sorry for calling you aggressive and sorry for implying that you had something to do with the deletion of the older versions of this file. But I will ask an administrator to undelete (At least Nudimmud's original) some or all of the older versions of this file (as the original version of this file by Nudimmud still being referenced in the licensing had a light blue shade and a light gold shade). In regards to the shade. Have we at least reached the consensus that the current 2 July and 25 July 2014 versions through re-upload and reversions by you and User:Illegitimate Barrister using the dark blue shade (#003478) being the same as the shade of blue on the National Flag is untenable based on the Cheongwadae photographs of the two side-by-side? In simpler terms, Presidential Standard Blue ≠ National Flag Blue (#003478). Thus, the current temporarily protected version is incorrect and needs to be changed following consensus here. Hopefully we could at least agree on that point. Now I and possibly several others would further argue that the Presidential Standard's shade of blue should not the same shade of blue as that of the Governmental Flag, in other words, Presidential Standard Blue ≠ Governmental Flag Blue. However, you have given the source here as supporting that the two are (roughly) the same, and though I believe they are different from photographs of real Governmental Flags, but I currently do not have a photographic source showing the Presidential Standard side-by-side with the Governmental Flag. I'm not sure of other's opinions, but I would (until better preferably official government E-mail sources come up) agree to the compromise. There is a problem however, the reason I asked you to clarify your introduction to this vote is because I was unsure of the exact compromised RGB or Hexadecimal values for which we are voting. In your introduction, you said "[...] to match the colours of File:Temp SK flag.svg. [It ...] matches the blue that is encoded in the download from this source." But the two shades of blue do not match! You showed File:Temp SK flag.svg with a shade of blue (#0045a4). Yet the shade of blue in the Governmental Flag example downloaded from your linked source is not #0045a4 0-69-164 but rather the lighter shade of blue #1164b2 17-100-178! Which is much closer to Shyoon1's version #0066cc 0-102-204. I have uploaded the Presidential Standard with the correct and actual shade of blue argued based on your introduction to this vote as a separate file. See the side-by-side comparisons to the right. If we are voting for the one on the top (exactly based on your introduction to this vote), I would gladly change my vote to "In favour", but if it is the one on the bottom, then perhaps you should provide me and the voters here with some explanation as to the discrepancy between your introductory words and your uploaded file. --Shibo77 05:42, 6 September 2014 (UTC)

I do not understand the discrepancy, it must have been because I copied the source page directly instead of the EPS file. The EPS is encoded as #005ba6 which is somewhere in the middle of the two. Fry1989 ^eh? 17:04, 6 September 2014 (UTC)

I'm sorry but I still do not understand how you are able to get #005ba6. Following your introduction to this vote, I went to this source and downloaded the file. This 정부기.zip compressed file contains a .ai (Adobe Illustrator Artwork) vector image and a .jpg (Joint Photographic Experts Group) raster image, without a .eps (Encapsulated PostScript) compounded image present. The .ai vector image has a shade of #0064B0 0-100-176, and the .jpg raster image has a shade of #1164B2 17-100-178, both having the lighter blue shade; Now we can convert these into a .svg (Scalable Vector Graphics) vector image using Adobe Illustrator or other graphics programs. This would give us a shade of #0065B1 0-101-177 for .ai-to-.svg, and less perfectly, a shade of #1164B1 17-100-177 ~ #1164B2 17-100-178 for the .jpg-to-.svg. Again, both shades are of the lighter blue; Thirdly, we could also convert the two into .eps (Encapsulated PostScript) compound images (although I don't really understand the logic of doing this). This would yield a shade of #0064B0 0-101-176 for .ai-to-.eps, and a shade of #1164B1 17-100-177 for .jpg-to-.eps. For this I used both Illustrator and the online CloudConvert (just to cover more bases). Again we see that the shades are of the lighter blue; Finally, we can also convert the EPS into SVG, which gives a shade of #0065B1 0-101-177 for .ai-to-.eps-to-.svg, and a shade of #1164B1 17-100-177 ~ #1164B2 17-100-178 for .jpg-to-.eps-to-.svg. Again, they are of the lighter shades of blue. Now yesterday I tried to determine how you had arrived at a shade of #0045a4 for your File:Temp SK flag.svg image located at the beginning of this voting section, and the only way I got that shade was by simply using the 150×71 .gif (Graphics Interchange Format) directly on the webpage, and located here. There were not any encoded EPS files to speak of. Naturally, a 150×71 .gif is a terrible file, and seeing that the ROK Governmental Ceremony Manual JPEG was not used due to its artefacts, a small 150×71 gif would be an even worse choice. Now you keep mentioning an EPS file encoded somewhere in this download, but I cannot find it. Nor can I find a mentioning of #005ba6, nor its equivalent RGB 0-91-166, nor its equivalent CMYK 1.0000-0.4518-0.0000-0.3490 (100.00%-45.18%-0.00%-34.90%). It would greatly help if you could tell me how you found/converted/arrived at your shade of #005ba6 in an EPS file, and where exactly is that EPS file. Thank you! --Shibo77 00:35, 7 September 2014 (UTC)

I downloaded the .ZIP in the source and extracted the .AI file, exported it into SVG through Scribus and opened it in Inkscape. It comes out as #005ba6. Fry1989 ^eh? 01:22, 7 September 2014 (UTC)

Thank you! I got the same result. I believe this is a problem on the part of Scribus (something I haven't used before so I don't know much about, but I think the script it uses to do the .ai-to.svg export/conversion is less advanced than that of Adobe Illustrator). However #005BA6 looks to be a good a shade as can be achieved with the sources we have at the moment. I have changed File:Temp SK flag actual.svg to #005BA6. Would you mind changing your File:Temp SK flag.svg to this same shade? I will change my vote to "In favour" after. Thanks! --Shibo77 03:56, 7 September 2014 (UTC)

Does that look alright? Fry1989 ^eh? 17:15, 7 September 2014 (UTC)

Wonderful! I have changed my vote and will ask others in the "Against" category to voice their opinions/recast their vote. Thank you very much! --Shibo77 05:56, 8 September 2014 (UTC)

 Oppose The light blue version is the correct version. (unsigned by 31.208.67.14)

When you come off of anonymous IP so we know you're not a sock, and back up your opinion with something more than just "it's the right one because I say so", you're !vote will carry much more weight. Fry1989 ^eh? 00:50, 8 September 2014 (UTC)

I do not understand why you insist the dark blue. Obviously you are not Korean like. (unsigned by 2.248.170.21)

And that is why your vote means carries no weight, you're racist and you are basing it solely on an opinion with no facts. Fry1989 ^eh? 16:10, 9 September 2014 (UTC)