File talk:Flag of the President of Brazil.svg

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Appearance[edit]

Here's a problem. I have photos of the actual flag (1), (2), (3), (4), (also note presidential sash with my darker blue 5) have have made changes accordingly to match as much as possible. Tonyjeff however claims that my changes are wrong and that the Brazillian Government has an official file regarding the flag, but doesn't have a source. He says he will look for one, but until such time, I believe my changes should be maintained, as I have evidence. Even if I am wrong, my removal of many of the strokes should be kept. For example, there's absolutely no reason why the stars should have a small yellow border on them(small enough most wouldn't notice, but still, why is it there?), or the words having a border either. Fry1989 (talk) 00:19, 2 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I was able to find the offical file of the Brazilian coat of arms and have already uploaded it. I did a new version of the presidential flag with the very same coat of arms, and would like to upload it.
About the shade of the green, since there is no official text or file, we must assume that it is the very same of the national flag.
Note that pictures cited above show a different shade for the green of the national, darker than the official vector file available at the government's site. Seeing so, it cannot be considered (even because a picture can be affected by lightening and the flag may not be made respecting the law). Tonyjeff (talk) 17:35, 7 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Unless you can give a link for a government source of the Presidential flag, then the photos are still in consideration. Just because the government says something about the national flag, that doesn't mean it automatically translates over to all other flags. The lighting is different in all 3 photos, and yet they all coroborate the same colours, so to say the lighting means they can't be considered is rediculous. Fry1989 (talk) 20:55, 7 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

The photos you appreciate so much also display a different green shade for the national flag and a different blue shade for the coat of arms, despite the fact that the official shades for vector files of these arts are available. So we must assume that "ridiculous" is consider these photos as a reliable source for colors for a vector file. Tonyjeff (talk) 23:28, 8 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

These flags are specially made for and ordered by governments, which would provide specifications. You can't just dismiss them because they don't match the Coat of Arms file you have exactly. Fry1989 (talk) 21:11, 9 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Oh, yes, I can dismiss them, indeed:

  1. Have you noticed that the flags from pictures 1 and 2 are different from the one of picture 3 (the lack of the gold splendor)?
  2. Have you noticed that they are using a different blue from the one of the official file?
  3. Have you noticed that they are using the same shade of green used by the national flag photographed?

So, I hope you to be a little humble and recognize all your mistakes, specially the imposition of your point of view, something which is normal in your attitude towards other users. Tonyjeff (talk) 00:16, 14 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Actually, you're still wrong. On your first count, the gold splendor IS on image 3, it's just more faint, but you can see it. On your second, so what if they're using a different shade than an official site? I can give tonnes of instances where a flag being used(even in an official manner, such as behind a president or prime minister in conference) doesn't match that "official shades". Last, on your third, that is answered partially by the second, that flags don't always match the official shades. In this case, the three photos are the best sources we have. Fry1989 (talk) 05:38, 10 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Actually, I am not. You are both wrong and misbehaving. You cannot remove categories the way you are and impose the superseded tag.

  1. Nope, the gold splendor is not there (do you have any problem with your eyes?). Even if it was, a different shade reveals the lack of fidelity in the production of these flags.
  2. The use of different shades of green, again, reveals the lack of fidelity.
  3. No, wrong again. The best references we have, for vector files, are the official files available (National flag and blazon).

I can imagine how important this may be for you, to promote your personal gallery, but you should respect other points of view. Tonyjeff (talk) 01:36, 21 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, the splendour IS there, look again, I can see it. The shades of green are the same, its different lighting, and lastly, there's many examples where government flags don't match national flags, so stop acting like everything has to be exactly the same! Also, saying I'm a self-promotionist is silly. Yes, I have a personal gallery(alot of users do), but I just as much, if not more, request others to create files in the Graphic Lab. Fry1989 (talk) 02:14, 21 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

"Silly" is promote a edition war to impose your point of view. Sorry, it is not there, you may ask anyone (again, YOU are seeing; it is YOUR point of view). And again, if it is there, it just justifies what I am saying: these flags are not produced respecting minimum rules of standardization. I am not saying that things must be the same; but that you cannot impose your point of view based on these pictures. Moreover: vandalizing a file (seeing that the removal of Categories in the context of a edition war IS vandalization, no matter the point of view). The reason is simple: if these shades should be considered, the official files of the national flag and blazon would not be correct.

Finally, if it is so "silly" to say that you are trying to promote yourself (and your gallery), why do what you are doing? What is the matter with you? Tonyjeff (talk) 02:58, 21 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I do what I do because I care about correctness. I always try and use sources whenever I edit something, a government website, a photo, something tangent. I honestly believe that I am correct in this matter, or I wouldn't pursue it so. You will find examples where I have yielded where I am shown to be wrong, but you have not met my threshold of proof, infact, I don't believe you've met any threshold of proof. Fry1989 (talk) 03:59, 21 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Photos are not a good referece. As you can see here, this flag use a light blue (and it is in front of the official workplace of the President of Brazil); we can find more examples like that or even wrong flags.... We have the same problem with File:Flag of Brazil.svg: [1] [2] [3] [4] (dark and light blue). Why? When an governmental agency purchase a flag, it requested that the flag follow the laws regarding its confection. But the laws never specify exactly the colors, so we get the same flag with diferent colors. So, what we can do? In my opinion, should be better use the colors provide in the official documents.

Actually Giro, your pics of the Flag of Brazil are all the same, the reason the blue looks lighter is because it's directly in the way of the sun. Am I the only one who understands that? As for your pic of the Presidential standard, yes, that one has the lighter blue, however, it still shows my darker green and yellow. I'm not saying pics are perfect, I'm saying that when the majority of them lean a certain way, that leads me to believe that way is the way it should be, unless otherwise proven. And Zscout, regarding the Coat of Arms, you will notice that my problem with them was all those rediculous heavy strokes that make it a mess. I don't have a problem with light blue vs dark blue on the Arms. Fry1989 (talk) 18:28, 27 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Colors were in an issue in the first one, but will retract my other statement. My goal is to make the colors uniform, as we noted on the images that the green on the flag is the same green on the arms, etc. User:Zscout370 (Return fire) 20:00, 27 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
That's fine, infact I agree on that matter. The only thing that matters to me is getting rid of all those strokes, as you can see on my corrected version: File:Coat of arms of Brazil (corrected).svg it's much cleaner, and the blazon doesn't mention them anyways, so it's not as if they're neccesary. I don't even have a problem with you merging the two coat of arms files, as long as I can remove those messy strokes. Fry1989 (talk) 20:08, 27 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
About the strokes, I agree with you Fry. The strokes must be avoided in flags and coat of arms, unless they are really necessary (i.e. when we have two different elements with the same color or when the blazon mention the stroke like in File:Coat of arms of Portugal (Lesser).svg). Giro720 (talk) 16:53, 28 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you, call it a pet peeve, but it really annoys me. I try and clean up emblems whenever I can, unless the strokes are specifically required. In this case, it's gone to the extreme, and the Arms of Brazil currently used are hideous, compared to my cleaned up version. I'm glad somebody agrees. Fry1989 (talk) 23:22, 28 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Colors[edit]

On Page B8 of the "Flag Manual" published by the Beijing Organizing Committee for the Games of the XXIX Olympiad, the following colors are given for the Brazilian flag (as provided by the Brazilian NOC): Green Pantone 355, Yellow 012, Blue 280. User:Zscout370 (Return fire) 00:15, 31 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

@Zscout370: Given this is apparently the first time hard values for these have been found, should this SVG and the others be changed to agree, as well as en:Flag of Brazil#Colours? Of course, there is then the question of which of the Pantone RGB equivalents to use (coated, uncoated, etc.). I've used the "C" values in the past, I think. Here are the options from their color finder (background color is that shown in the RGB column, foreground colors are used to demonstrate the appearance of the other two "C" colors when appearing on top of them):
Pantone Hex RGB
355 C /
PQ-355C 		009639
355 CP 00A144
355 XGC 009D3C
355 U 19975D
355 UP 3B9F6B
012 C /
PQ-012C 		FFD700
012 U FFE000
280 C /
PQ-280C 		012169
280 CP 223A76
280 XGC 142365
280 U 3C4981
280 UP 545E89

—[AlanM1(talk)]— 10:48, 2 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]

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