File talk:Crucian carp-bowels 2 prPNr°26.jpg

This is Carassius auratus gibelio, or Carassius gibelo, in this picture recognizable by the black abdominal membrane. Carassius carassius has a colourless abdominal membrane.Viridiflavus 23:38, 9 June 2007 (UTC)

Carassius carassius?

You changed the description into "A wild goldfish". I don't think that this is a wild goldfish. My teacher (who is a biology teacher) said that this is a crucian carp. If I have a look at Image:DSCN3568.JPG I wouldn't say that they are the same fish race.
edit: WTF? I don't understand what you want to tell me.
--D-Kuru 01:40, 10 June 2007 (UTC)

• • If you look at the black membrane between the eggs and the fishbones you'll notice it is black. This is also typical of goldfish.

If you compare the picture of the wild goldfish Giebel_Goudvis.JPG you will see the head and body shape are identical. The other picture shows C. a. gibelio in a typical dutch wild type (probably a gynogenetic clone). In fact typical wild crucian carp will be very different from the goldfish types. In body shape many more gills along the lateral line, colour, body shape (flatter and rounder, rounded fins) and head shape, and if you would cut them open you wouldn't see a black membrane. The different forms of gibelio are more variable, maybe because they are more or less wild goldfish C. a.. And C gibelio. In fact the 'wild' goldfish is an eastern subspecies of gibelio and there has also been a lot of domestication and subsequent release in the wild. So I think Image:DSCN3568.JPG is a picture of a typical wild western gibelio and Image:Giebel_Goudvis.JPG and your picture are in fact wild colored goldfish. DNA-research could clarify this matter, but it is clear that they are not Carassius carassius. It is a pity that C. carassius has become somewhat rare in the Netherlands so I had to post pictures of juvenile fish, which are to small (2 cm( to be a good reference picture. Searching the internet will also give you lots of misnamed fish. These pictures show C. carassius:[1], [2] and [3] (beautiful adult C. c.). This site also shows nice gibelio pictures [4]. Because the species cucian carp and wild goldfish haven't been recognized as seperate species in old literature they are still very often misnamed, but I hope that if you take a look at the pictures and the head shape of C. carassius you will see that it is very distinct. Sorry I changed the name of the picture myself, but I posted a comment some time ago to which you didn't respond and because I try to maintain the quality of the wiki pictures because they are often used as a reference I changed it myself. Thanks for posting the pictures however, because they are the only pictures of fish anatomy on wiki so far and are very usable (copied from my discussion page) Viridiflavus 05:50, 10 June 2007 (UTC)