File talk:CH1931visa.jpg
Licensing: Swiss or Polish document / Copyright of uploading user ?[edit]
I had changed the license to "Swiss government document", as all relevant design elements in the picture derive from Swiss authorities and not from Polish ones. The only Polish design element which can be identified is the writing on the top, merely consisting of the Polish and the English word for "visa". This design element is irrelevant in terms of the copyright, since it does not constitute a "creation" in an extent which could lead to copyright protection.
In any case, it is not correct that the person who had photographed or scanned the picture claims any copyright whatsoever, and a right to grant any restricted or unrestricted license, for him-/herself. The creation of the design and content derives from the work of the authorities which can be found in the picture, and not from scanning. The process of scanning did not lead to any creation, but to reproduction only.
Irrespective of the question if this is a work of Polish or Swiss authrotities, it surely is not a work of the user who uploaded the picture. Thus, the reason for the revert which had been stated by the user who reverted the edit does not justify the revert itself: There are no arguments given why the user who scanned / uploaded the visa page should enjoy any copyright and, thus, any power to grant a license whatsoever. For this reason, I have, again, reverted the edit and would like to ask to discuss the matter here instead of entering into an edit war. --DanSchultz 08:58, 20 December 2007 (UTC)
- Sorry, but it is NOT Swiss document, it is just part of Polish one. It is one of pages (page no. 17) of Polish passport, full view - see right. Licenses of full view and partly views have to be relevant, and I have decided (I am the owner of rights for my grandma archives) CC-BY-SA, both for full view and for page number 17.
Image:CH1931visa.jpg is a derivative work of this full view and MUST be identical license as an original - Image:PaszportRzeczpospolitaPolska.1931.jpg.
Julo 14:26, 20 December 2007 (UTC)
- No, I am sorry. The mere fact that your grandmother was the holder of the passport does not mean that she was the holder of the copyright of its content. You also do not own the copyright of the music on records which you buy in a store. Furthermore, neither your grandmother nor you had in any respect created themselves any content of this passport. Furthermore, it is irrelevant in which collective work (in this case, the passport) the visa was contained. Thus, I would like to revert the copyright to the tag which I had introduced. In any case, please leave the remark about the different opinions which I have inserted now. --DanSchultz 17:39, 20 December 2007 (UTC)
- Since the Swiss visa has been personalised for Mrs. Marja S. it is not owned by Swiss authorities. Since the Marja S.'s picture, description (Signalement) and signature was put into the passport - this document is her personal document, not a Polish-state, Swiss-state, Italian-state or any other. I do not want it to be reproduced as "PD-country", I want it to be used with adnotation relegating to Wikipedia and to my original uploader's information. PD-country gives right for everybody to use the picture or it's derivative parts with no adnotations, and I do not want it. Cc-by-sa is my choice. Julo 11:48, 27 December 2007 (UTC)
- This is nonsense. If you scan the last Harry Potter novel, after having bought it in a store, and having written your name on your front page, you do not become the copyright holder, and you become liable of a criminal offence when you distribute it, or unduly claim your copyright. The mere fact that your grandmother's name is mentioned in the document does not mean that you hold the copyright. Furthermore, the status of the other passport pages is irrelevant, since the scan itself does only show the Swiss document. I understand you love your grandmother, but this is legally irrelevant. Even if you wish to be mentioned, you do not have any legal right to it. I tried to reach a compromise by stating that the copyright status is disputed. Since, obviously, this is not sufficient to you, I will ask the admins of Wiki Commons to block you from any further use in case that you continue to claim the copyright to the picture. -DanSchultz 23:37, 27 December 2007 (UTC)
- I do not "hold the copyright of the Swiss visa only because I scanned it". I hold copyright, because I am the heir of the person, who was the owner of document. The state of Switzerland has nothing to do in this case, that's all. Julo 14:19, 28 December 2007 (UTC)
- So, if your grandmother owned a book, you think you hold the copyright to it??? --85.178.61.214 23:36, 29 December 2007 (UTC)
- The passport is not just a book, the passport is the personal document. Julo 15:19, 31 December 2007 (UTC)
- So, if your grandmother owned a book, you think you hold the copyright to it??? --85.178.61.214 23:36, 29 December 2007 (UTC)
- I do not "hold the copyright of the Swiss visa only because I scanned it". I hold copyright, because I am the heir of the person, who was the owner of document. The state of Switzerland has nothing to do in this case, that's all. Julo 14:19, 28 December 2007 (UTC)
- This is nonsense. If you scan the last Harry Potter novel, after having bought it in a store, and having written your name on your front page, you do not become the copyright holder, and you become liable of a criminal offence when you distribute it, or unduly claim your copyright. The mere fact that your grandmother's name is mentioned in the document does not mean that you hold the copyright. Furthermore, the status of the other passport pages is irrelevant, since the scan itself does only show the Swiss document. I understand you love your grandmother, but this is legally irrelevant. Even if you wish to be mentioned, you do not have any legal right to it. I tried to reach a compromise by stating that the copyright status is disputed. Since, obviously, this is not sufficient to you, I will ask the admins of Wiki Commons to block you from any further use in case that you continue to claim the copyright to the picture. -DanSchultz 23:37, 27 December 2007 (UTC)
- Since the Swiss visa has been personalised for Mrs. Marja S. it is not owned by Swiss authorities. Since the Marja S.'s picture, description (Signalement) and signature was put into the passport - this document is her personal document, not a Polish-state, Swiss-state, Italian-state or any other. I do not want it to be reproduced as "PD-country", I want it to be used with adnotation relegating to Wikipedia and to my original uploader's information. PD-country gives right for everybody to use the picture or it's derivative parts with no adnotations, and I do not want it. Cc-by-sa is my choice. Julo 11:48, 27 December 2007 (UTC)
