Commons:Featured picture candidates/File:Sawtche (dite Sarah Saartjie Baartman), étudiée comme Femme de race Bôchismann, Histoire Naturelle des Mammifères, tome II, Cuvier, Werner, de Lasteyrie.jpg

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File:Sawtche (dite Sarah Saartjie Baartman), étudiée comme Femme de race Bôchismann, Histoire Naturelle des Mammifères, tome II, Cuvier, Werner, de Lasteyrie.jpg, featured[edit]

Voting period is over. Please don't add any new votes.Voting period ends on 29 Apr 2013 at 16:24:48 (UTC)
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Sarah Saartjie Baartman
  •  Info created by Weber, de Lasteyrie and Georges Cuvier - uploaded, stitched, restored and nominated by me -- Jebulon (talk) 16:24, 20 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  •  Support In the volume II of the "Illustrations of Natural History of Mammals", between images of a corsican sheep and of a monkey, one can find these two drawings. Sarah Saartjie Baartman was a slave in South Africa where she was born, exhibited in freak shows in Europe, forced into prostitution in England and France, and finally studied as a "specimen" of natural history by Cuvier, a few months before her death. He made a cast of her body (I remember I saw it in the "Musée de l'Homme" in Paris when I was young), and gave many explanations about inferiority of some human races, especially the african... But we have now to remember that she was a person and a women. Her remains were repatriated to her homeland, the Gamtoos Valley in South Africa, only on May 2002. One can read very interesting articles in many wikipedias about this person. These are 1815 very high quality and rare pictures. -- Jebulon (talk) 16:24, 20 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  •  Support Well done and because of the high EV presented by Jebulon. --Cayambe (talk) 17:10, 20 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  •  Support per Cayambe -- George Chernilevsky talk 18:51, 20 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  •  Oppose because it hurts (me personally as I too a human). "Images must not unfairly ridicule or demean the subject." I think Commons:Photographs of identifiable people is applicable to artworks too. Just my personal opinion; not interested for a discussion. JKadavoor Jee 06:30, 21 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  •  Oppose I totally agree with Jkadavoor. Jacopo Werther iγ∂ψ=mψ 08:21, 21 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]
    • I'm afraid you both completely misunderstood the purpose of this nomination. This image is far much less ridiculous than all others of the category. Actually, it does not unfairly ridicule or demean the subject at all, because it was very seriously published for a 1815 scientific purpose. She spoke three european languages, was a good musician (said Cuvier), and she looked really like this. That's one of the bad faces of History, history of science, history of litterature (Victor Hugo spoke about her), history of cinema (several movies about her story), history of the relationships between western world and african nations (France voted in 2002 a special law for the restitution of her remains to South Africa and Khoïkhoï people), history of ethnology, history of racism. Again, my advice is to read the articles.Jee, I'm surprised that you are not "interested for a discussion", I thought you were always "interested for a discussion" Clin--Jebulon (talk) 08:24, 21 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  •  Support Georges Cuvier today would be subject to the international courts. What he did with Mrs. Sarah Baartman can not be forgiven, he soiled humanity and he discredited science. It's a shame for France who waited until 2002 to recognize his actions and return the body to the family. But mostly this is a shame for all of us, we have to think. Do not want to see it, do not want to talk, makes us complicit. --Archaeodontosaurus (talk) 08:56, 21 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  •  Support -- As above. But we shouldn't be ashamed about the actions of our ancestors. The fact that most of us strongly reject those actions is a clear sign that a significant social evolution is taking place (at least in our part of the world). Bravo! -- Alvesgaspar (talk) 10:30, 21 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  •  Support -- per others --Llez (talk) 12:30, 21 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  •  Support -- per the three previous ones + « Those who forget their past...» (see George Santayana). --JLPC (talk) 13:18, 21 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  •  Support Because the nomination is an important historical piece of work illustrating how perceptions of other cultures have evolved over the last few centuries. It also has high technical quality. This historical evidence needs to be featured to remind us not to return to such views on other cultures again. It is good for a country to reconcile with its past this way. For me, as a Dane it is also a reminder of the active part "my country" had in slavery in the West Indies, where it was not forbidden until 1848. --Slaunger (talk) 19:25, 21 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  •  Support Future generations may see our fascination with zoos and performing animals in similar light as we are seeing this image? There are countless things that are acceptable today that may be unacceptable for future generations and it is the same with history. History cannot be changed but whatever bad happened can be remembered so that it can never be repeated again. -- ~y (talk) 21:52, 21 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  •  Support It is a good quality illustration and an excellent restoration job that illustrates a cultural, social and historical significant figure. --NJR_ZA (talk) 10:25, 23 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]
    • Thank you very very much ! I am very happy and proud to get a support of a citizen of South-Africa, who surely knows deeply what I mean.--Jebulon (talk) 11:50, 23 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]
      •  Comment I can not speak for South Africa, only for myself. Personally I think the illustration says more about human nature in general than it does about the individual depicted. I have visited her grave site a number of times (not specifically because it is her grave, but also because it is situated on a magnificent lookout point) and was shocked on more than one occasion due to the state of the grave. In my mind vandalism[1] of the grave is far more demeaning to Baartman than this illustration will ever be. The history of Saartjie Baartman is controversial, but I think that anyone today that look at this illustration and then read her history may benefit by asking themselves when I first looked at the illustration, did I see a freak or a fellow human being? --NJR_ZA (talk) 13:14, 23 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]
      • Fully agree. Again, you understood very well my meaning when I nominated this picture.--Jebulon (talk) 15:28, 23 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  •  Support As above. --Michael Gäbler (talk) 23:29, 24 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Confirmed results:
Result: 11 support, 2 oppose, 0 neutral → featured. /George Chernilevsky talk 05:23, 30 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]
This image will be added to the FP gallery: Non-photographic media
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