Commons:Requests and votes/Guérin Nicolas

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Per consensus here, Guérin Nicolas is now a Commons administrator. -- Cecil (talk) 18:31, 8 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Guérin Nicolas

Vote

Links for Guérin Nicolas : Guérin Nicolas (talk · contributions · deleted user contributions · recent activity · logs · block log · global contribs · CentralAuth)

Hi everybody, i'm on Commons since 2 years and a half (arrived on march 2006) and i have more than 10000 edits with over 69 percent of those in the image-namespace (see my Edit Counter). Concerning images, i uploaded more than 900 and i'm currently a trusted flickr-reviewer. I'm active in categorizing, reviewing, tagging and requesting deletions about images (i think i have a good understanding now about Commons:Licensing and Commons:Freedom of panorama).

I also vote for the featured picture candidates, quality images candidates, polls, and i'm taking part to discussions on Commons:Bistro. Recently, i requested opinions about my candidature and got support from 3 administrators (see here and here).

I would like to be become an administrator to help on deletion requests once the debate is closed and need to get processed, also to fight against vandalism (blocking vandals or protecting pages, duty that i do already on fr.wp), all the while staying mellow ;) Guérin Nicolas (messages) 18:30, 1 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Votes

Comments

 Question what would you do if somebody uploaded this image here? Also explain why you would do it.--Kanonkas(talk) 19:27, 1 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

First i check the licensing (ok), second i check the main object of the picture and here it looks like a picture of an artwork (not a building) installed after 1923 in US, so i think that this photo is subject to the approval of the copyright holder (see Commons:Freedom_of_Panorama#United_States). So , before to review such picture, i would discuss it on irc (or on Commons:Bistro). If it's clearly copyrighted (as i believe it), i will ask for its deletion on irc or i will tag it {{copyvio|reason or source}}, giving the link above as a the reason for such deletion request. Note : i there's still a doubt about copyright, i will tag it with the template {{Delete}}. Guérin Nicolas (messages) 20:14, 1 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Checking the untagged new pictures is not necessary an admin job, everyone can check them and tags them for deletion. The admin job here is to ensure that the deletion requests are verified before being processed, so we are sure they are legits. If an admin performs Recent Changes and delete himself the wrong files he spots, then he takes on himself the responsability of making an error and of possibly being accused of trying to abuse his power when he makes this error. So, to my eyes, asking an admin 'how he is going to check random untagged uploaded files' is far from my definition of the administrative job. It's like asking a Tennis player 'What is the best place in the tribune to watch the match?' Esby (talk) 18:52, 2 October 2008 (UTC) [edit: I agree on the move performed by Nicolas Guérin here. Esby (talk) 19:41, 2 October 2008 (UTC)][reply]

 Question Are you suggesting that (many) of the current administration are perhaps not making the simple and agreed upon deletions? What are they doing instead? -- (she asked having had a screenshot of an incredibly parasitic and idiotic administrative action from English wikipedia deleted here inspite of real work that exists here being deleted) carol (talk) 19:06, 1 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Hi Carol, i'm on Commons-l, and i received recently couple of e-mails about "unprocessed deletion requests". Those e-mails suggest that "more admins are needed". I just would like to help. Note : i never thought that admins are not making their job here (that's would be not nice for my friends). Guérin Nicolas (messages) 19:34, 1 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Yeah, well -- when you suggested you would manage the deletion requests within 3 days, it made me think about the need to make such a promise and to look at the backlog of requests. I am removing {{See more}} templates that you placed on taxonomy categories. 1)Is that a problem and 2)what was your reasoning to place what is often a 4th link on the category page to the gallery (often instead of making a nicer and more complete gallery). The gallery makers have not been interferred with to the best of my understanding. -- carol (talk) 21:32, 1 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]
About {{See more}}: when i started to categorize media about species, i just followed what it was done by others with such categories. I think i met a couple of time such template, so i thought it might a kind of rule, so i started to apply it. After i realised it's not really usefull, but i kept on reason in mind to use it: as people feel free in such domain, some of them categorizing articles/galleries only at the genus level (and removing by the way my categorization at the species level), i'm using this template to be sure to have in the category a link pointing to the article (i made a special function in my monobook to add it automatically and save time). Removing this model template is not a problem for me (as you are sure that there's another link pointing to the article/gallery), but it would be better to convince some people to categorize the species galleries at the species level, then this link will appear for sure in the category and {{See more}} will not be needed anymore. Guérin Nicolas (messages) 22:17, 1 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]
You are using the word "model" to mean "template"? -- carol (talk) 02:05, 2 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Oups, according to my french-english dictionary, it looks like a synonym of the word "template" (that i didn't want to use for the third time in the comment). Sure i was meaning "template", you can remove this template from categories if it's duplicating the link to the gallery. I will remove it also from my monobook :) Guérin Nicolas (messages) 07:06, 2 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Ah, I thought the french word was "templatar" -- no reason to apologize for my single language problems. http://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Category:Narthecium&diff=prev&oldid=13927630 August 28 -- not that long ago. So after almost two and a half years, you were unable to recognize that a link was already provided to that gallery and that there are other templates which are available here which are specifically for plants. I also see from your contributions (see more, if you understand this enough) that a lot of "voting" has occurred. It is interesting to me how more and more opportunities to vote is created but no admin are inspired to manage the outcomes of these votes. Do you think that the need to vote to qualify as an administrator here has anything to do with all of the things to vote on?
If you want to find a mistake in my 10000 edits, sure you will (i'm not God an no one is perfect, so stay mellow). To answer you on this, the link provided by the template above is not the same than the other given below, so i don't see any duplication (one is pointing to the genus gallery, one to the species gallery and one to the species category); i think i created something like 500 categories about species so i create stubs most of time, after you can feel free to update it and to improve it. If you think that a category should look like this since the beginning (note: this category you created is not populated and might be deleted, mistake from you?), i think that few people do like this: my philosophy is that you start small and then you improve it, it doesn't need to look perfect with the first released.
About voting: i think that to vote and to participate to forums is essential here, it shows your interest for the project, how you are involved in it, and how you interact with others. Furthermore to vote on COM:FPC and COM:QIC teached me a lot about how to evaluate and how to take good pictures, so i applied it to myself, and i advised also my friends about how to take good pictures. Some of them joined Commons after that. My philosophy about adminship is not only to do maintenance but also to act so to keep our communauty full of energy, motivation, and good-spirit. Then the fact to vote on different parts which help to develop the project appears essential.
Best regards, hope that all my answers gives you enough proofs about my good faith. Guérin Nicolas (messages) 08:56, 2 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

(tab reset) About empty categories. This is a "guideline" which in many ways makes no sense to me if there is the expectation of an image. Upload software suggests existing categories and also commons has many many photographs of some things and needs photographs of others. If the subject exists, is there a good reason to not have the category waiting here for it? Do you have an idea for an easy way to inform potential contributors of images which are needed here? Do you have any skill in Javascript so that you can make the upload software suggest creating the category and what name it should be?

Perhaps you had a reason for always adding a templated 2nd or 3rd link to gallery to the categories you created even though the wiki software already does this when galleries are categorized correctly and categories are subcategorized correctly, I would be interested in knowing the reason. In the link that you provided, did you consider refining the category for that gallery?

I am curious about the reason that there is email about the backlog of deletions at the same while there are so many admin active here, what do you think they are doing instead?

Do you need a thanks or sorry for your need to paste English wikipedia good faith links for answering these questions? I am simply curious. There is a good chance that you have perfectly good reasons for doing those things I pasted and asked about but I will not know them unless you explain them. It should not actually involve an additional need to be mellow or a link to an article about assuming good faith. It is an opportunity to explain to someone who really would like to know what the mindset is/was. Sorry that you needed to paste those links, my goal was in acquiring information not to upset you. -- carol (talk) 16:41, 2 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I am commenting on "I am curious about the reason that there is email about the backlog of deletions at the same while there are so many admin active here, what do you think they are doing instead? "
I somehow doubt that this is the good question to asnwer, I feel we could only get the answer by asking to the one that wrote this mail, not to the ones who answered it on OTRS. Neither Carol Spears, Nicolas Guérin or anyone else might be able to give the exact answer or reason. Especially if the answer implies making unnecessary assumptions. For the rest of the discussion, I don't really grap the debate, so it might be best to "symbolically close it" or move it elsewhere if no dramatical issues are raised. I mean there is no point in discussing on futile or unrelated points, at least not on that candidature page (this is solely my perception here.) Esby (talk) 19:41, 2 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]
@Esby it is your opinion that asking the reasons a user worked a certain way just a few days more than a month ago is not a good question to ask when they are requesting administrative privs here? Perhaps it is the suggestion that Guérin Nicolas cannot explain those reasons as suddenly you are answering for this user. Do you forsee that a user never needs to ask the reasons that files get randomly deleted from any admin? If an admin becomes all pasty of Mellow and English wikipedia weasel articles when asked these questions (simple ones like what reason did you do these things?) -- you think that doesn't belong here? The fact that these are not "dramatical issues" means they do not belong in a comment section for a user instance that is requesting extra privs? Do you think that you are on the right wiki for this? -- carol (talk) 19:51, 2 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I think just that Commons is growing very fast, so this explains that more new administrators are needed, despite current administrators are doing their jobs properly. For templates in categories of species, as you really care about their quality, i just wonder why you didn't leave me any message about this on my talk page before: this problem could have been discussed and fixed already 6 months ago. What have you been waiting 6 months before to tell me it's not convenient for you? Why do you complain only now? Anyway, i think this is not related anymore to the present election, we should move and continue this discussion on my talk page now. Best regards. Guérin Nicolas (messages) 20:14, 2 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]
A user doesn't have privs and I thought that you had just become active here within the last few months. Now you are requesting to be an administrator. All of the votes -- yet there is no real display yet of knowing what you were doing a little more than a month ago. At your user page, I left a response as if you are a new user here. I suggest that no matter how many positive votes you get, look at the definition of the words "good" and "faith" and withdraw your request. -- carol (talk) 20:21, 2 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Please consider people with more respect. Thank you. Guérin Nicolas (messages) 20:35, 2 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]
en:WP:Respectfully then, do you think that a user who wants deletion privileges should be able to explain what they were doing within the last two months and the reason they were doing it? I am not asking a user questions, I am asking questions from a person who wants to have extra access here. -- carol (talk) 20:54, 2 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Carol, FYI, I have seen Nicolas' edits over the last year or so, and I couldn't see anything wrong. he has always made constructive contributions on fr.wikipedia, and on Commons he has a very good presence on the French Village pump. What I mean is, many users who have voted above do actually know what he was doing. Of course he doesn't do everything right, but as far as I've seen, he has acknowledged mistakes and sought advice when needed. Now can you please carry this on your respective talk pages, this is starting to sound like trolling... le Korrigan →bla 20:41, 2 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]
@Korrigan so what was the reason that Guérin Nicolas added that template to newly created categories to what was often a third or more link to the gallery? It is not a dramatic question, it is not a rude question and it is not a question that is suggesting that wrong things has been done. It is a question for a user here that claims 2.5 years of involvement. It is a question about learning capacity and knowledge of all levels of software being used here. It is a question being asked of a person who will get privs that I don't have. I am asking questions nicely of a nice user I encountered previously. -- carol (talk) 20:54, 2 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I gave already long comments and answers above on this page. Carol, you could ask this to me already 6 months ago on my talk page, but you didn't. I will answer you about this only on my talk page now. Guérin Nicolas (messages) 21:20, 2 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]
"@Esby it is your opinion that asking the reasons a user worked a certain way just a few days more than a month ago is not a good question to ask when they are requesting administrative privs here?" How about asking it to him when he did that 'Battre le fer quand il est encore chaud'? What's the incidence of the possibles various answers on that election, how about to elaborate them before asking more questions when you got an answer?
About the rest of your Prose, sorry, I am rather simple, I don't understand that kind of sophisticated thinking (Actually it is more I don't want to waste time trying to understand what should be elaborated in simple terms.) On which basis do you ask me if I am on the right wiki? How do you define right or wrong here? And what wiki are you talking of? Esby (talk) 21:24, 2 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

 Question Do you think that an admin should know what they were doing when they did it within a timeframe of two months? -- carol (talk) 20:26, 2 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I'm not going to answer anymore
See my contributions to see that i'm active since the beginning, and very active since more than 6 months. One more time, treat people with respect here. I don't know you, i had never problem with you before, so i don't know why you treat me like this? Guérin Nicolas (messages) 20:35, 2 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I am not questioning if you were active or not. I am respectfully questioning what you were doing after 2.5 of activity here. -- carol (talk) 20:57, 2 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

 Comment Ok people, please settle down. Carol, whereas you have the right to pose as many questions to RfA candidates as you wish, your tone was at some comments a tad too agressive, and perhaps that's why Guérin doesn't feel like answering to you any longer. Please take discussions about how to manage the project somewhere else, like appropriate talk pages. Admins don't have to be active all the time and don't need to know all the particularities of the project. It's great if they do, but Commons is too big for people to know every little corner. We all do mistakes, misjudgements, etc, but in the end we must weigh the good work against the bad and, more important, to judge if we trust this person or not to have some extra tools. The admin mop is just that: a mop, not a weapon of mass destruction. All admin actions can be undone. So let's take eventual differences in considering how you should categorize images or not somewhere else and simply evaluate if Guérin's past actions reflect any problem that could potencially arise in the future. Patrícia msg 21:44, 2 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Oh, absolutely both "people" and "software" make mistakes. Software doesn't know what it was doing a couple of months ago or the reason it was doing this. People usually do. I have written my "welcome new user" stuff for this "candidate for deletion privs" at that users talk page with instructions of how to make simple edits on a wiki as might be considered respectful to a new user and probably disrespectful to a user of 2.5 years. "How to edit a wiki page and to create a category". If the respect level is not on a sliding scale that is associated with the number of years a user has been involved, I am not certain what to measure respect with -- and expectations of people who are requesting additional deletion privs here, Meanwhile, is it to be yet another admin who doesn't know the reasons they did something within the last 30 to 60 days (bits of time measured by hours, 24 hours equals one day....) and is (too easily) offended if asked? -- carol (talk) 22:11, 2 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]


Aggressive: Tending or disposed to aggress; characterized by aggression; making assaults; unjustly attacking.
I just asked for a "reason": Reason: Due exercise of the reasoning faculty; accordance with, or that which is accordant with and ratified by, the mind rightly exercised; right intellectual judgment; clear and fair deductions from true principles; that which is dictated or supported by the common sense of mankind; right conduct; right; propriety; justice.
Interesting that this is considered to be "aggressive" when what is being requested is additional privs (not the right to be here and edit). -- carol (talk) 22:21, 2 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]
The question was not whether you actually were agressive or not (and I belive you when you say you didn't mean to be), but how it was perceived. Here, at least three people see your messages as "a tad too agressive", so maybe the next ones can be a bit more... mellow :-) le Korrigan →bla 22:25, 2 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Is it refusal to answer a question or is it the inability to answer it? Is it aggressively not answering a question, btw -- lets assume that this candidate knows the answers. Are my questions being aggressively not answered? And understand that what is being voted on here is the right to delete any files and it is a right that has been used wrongly by others. -- carol (talk) 22:47, 2 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

If you wants answers that much, formulate your questions so they can be answered. Also, avoid suggesting what the users never said.

  • "Are you suggesting that (many) of the current administration are perhaps not making the simple and agreed upon deletions? " I read no parts in which he suggested that hypothesis. This is your hypothesis, if he don't agree with it, it's not to him to confirm it. Besides he answered you. Not his fault if you estimate he did not answer you.
  • "Do you think that an admin should know what they were doing when they did it within a timeframe of two months?" So you are implying that any admin must remember everything he did as an user by the past and must be able to give you the exact justification? Come on, admins (or users) are not machine. They will do errors. If you expect someone to cut his throat wide because he did an error, then you are in the wrong place to start with.

Esby (talk) 00:30, 3 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

"Cut throat" is very strong language. When making decisions, I don't think it is unusual to expect there to be a logic followed, a reasoning used, some understanding of the interface displayed. Admins and users are not machines, yet, I still await evidence that this user is not a javascript. The time to provide evidence was the point where "a reason" was requested.
Are you suggesting that the claim of being offended is a proper response to what was essentially a "can you think and learn" question? And once again, no evidence has been provided that this user can think and learn. -- carol (talk) 06:22, 3 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]
A javascript ? Come on... everybody here nows that Nicolas is made of Python... le Korrigan →bla 10:55, 3 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]
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